Baking Soda Wash After Acid Dip on Damascus Barrels

[Ed Blake]

I have always been instructed to use baking soda to neutralize the acid wash on Damascus barrels, but the soda itself is too abrasive on the finish when I rub the barrels down, in my experience. Could I dissolve the baking soda in a tub of water and wash the barrels in that after rubbing the barrels with OOOO steel wool? Would it accomplish the same thing?

[John Campbell]

Ed:
It ought to. Baking soda is a base. You want to neutralize the acid of the browner. This technique works on car battery terminals just fine.

Best, Kensal

[ed good]

there is a wonderful new book just published that addresses this issue and other gun restoration topics. go to:

http://www.vintageshotgun.com

for your copy.

[Chuck Heald]

I have always been instructed to use baking soda to neutralize the acid wash on Damascus barrels, but the soda itself is too abrasive on the finish when I rub the barrels down, in my experience. Could I dissolve the baking soda in a tub of water and wash the barrels in that after rubbing the barrels with OOOO steel wool? Would it accomplish the same thing?

This was discussed a few years back on the doublegunshop site. I may have asked the same question back then as I was developing a damascus coloring process from Dr Gaddy's artcle in DGJ and other posts on the doublegunshop site. Around that time, it appears that there were a good number of members of that site that went forward with all the information and successfully resurrected/developed the process. Some of them were concerned about neutralizing the ferric chloride.

I believe I raised the question about using baking soda for this. Some said it should work fine. The thought in mind was to make a solution in a tank and let the barrels sit in it for some length of time like 10 minutes, while agitating to ensure it gets inbetween the ribs. I didn't think direct application and carding with baking soda was necessary.


However, soaps are bases too. Some members were using soapy water rinses and clear rinses, if I recall. That's what I did.

If you're using a strong acid to etch the iron lower than the steel, I think it's an incorrect finish for Parkers. There's a lot on original Parker damascus (and other guns) finish in DGJ and over on the doublegunshop site.

[Justin Julian]

I just completed my first attempt at restoring damascus on this set of G grade barrels that have their fair share of dings and certainly don't qualify as collectible. I followed the instructions in the articles and threads referenced above. If the Radio Shack etchant solution is about 30% as is claimed in some on-line articles, I found that I had to cut it down to about 2% before it stopped stripping off all the black even after just a second or two in the bath. The baking soda worked well for me after I learned that I had to rub (under running water) with the finger tips far more gently than I instinctively wanted to. Once I got that part down, it progressed fairly well. I did not do the logwood crystal boil, as some restorers apparently don't, and after over 15 rust, boil, card and etch sessions, I was ready to call my first attempt done. If you are taking off too much black with a gentle baking soda rub under running water, perhaps your etchant solution is too stout. I believe that was the primary problem that I was having at first.

[E Robert Fabian]

Nice job Justin, I'd be very pleased if I had that result my first attempt.

[charlie cleveland]

lookin good... charlie

[Chuck Heald]

Great job. I fussed with the process a few years back and got no where with it. All the material I was reading was confusing regarding the Ferric Chloride etch strength. Once I figured out the strength of the etch, all was easy as pie.

Ruff,
What blueing solution did you use?

[Justin Julian]

Chuck,
As per an article I found on the 'net, I used the Pilkington's, diluted to about 50% strength after the first coating at full strength. I am only aware of two commercially available rust blue solutions...the Brownell's house brand and the Pilkington's. I've tried them both on fluid steel tubes and had better luck with the Pilkington's. If anyone knows of a better commercially available rust blue solution, I'd appreciate hearing about it.

[Chuck Heald]

RH,
I use Pilkingtons almost exclusively. Not that I favor it, just that it's my limited experience of what I have used. I do have some solution that I tried from someone claiming it was the original Winchester rust formula or produced the same result as Win. I really couldn't tell much if any difference.

[Justin Julian]

Chuck,
How many rust, boil and card iterations do you find to be necessary to obtain the desired dept of bluing on fluid steel with the Pilkington's?

[jimcaron]

That is a great job! Working with those chemicals can be very tricky and we all know, there are no do-overs.

[Justin Julian]

I just completed another damascus barrel refinish. This gun, a Lefever Arms HE grade double, was supposed to have fluid steel under the old rust bluing that was turning plum brown, according to the seller when I bought it about a year ago. I stared at the barrels under bright light from several angles and concluded the same. Imagine my surprise when I pulled the tube set out of the steel white bath and saw all that damascus pattern staring back at me! In any event, I was having trouble getting an even finish from the baking soda rub, so I recalled this thread and tried liquid hand soap instead. I am pleased to report that the soap worked quite well and proved more controllable in terms of slow and even removal of the rust bluing. I should note that the hand soap that I applied directly to the barrels as the carding and neutralizing agent was not the type that had any moisturizers in it. Its not a Parker, but here's a few hastily snapped photos of the results of that unanticipated damascus restoration....

[Justin Julian]

As a P.S. to my post above, this is what the Lefever damascus barrels looked like prior to being stripped with Brownell's steel white. This experience sure left me wondering how many guys are out there shooting hot shells through old fluid steel that are actually damascus hidden under a reblue? But for the restoration, I could have been one of them...

[charlie cleveland]

justin that sure is a pretty pattern on those barrels.... a job well done.... charlie

[Ed Blake]

Well done. How long to you allow the barrels to rust between boiling/carding?Did you use a damp box? I think my acid bath has been too strong.

[Justin Julian]

Ed,
I used the Pilkington's at full strength and let it sit for an hour. Then I add another coat cut with water to 50% and let it sit 3 more hours. By then it has a thin layer of orange "rust", which is actually more of a discoloration than what I'd call rust, and do the boil and card. The rest of the rusting solution is applied at 50% strength and the tubes allowed to sit for 4 to 12 hours to develop an even orange film. My garage is unheated and it was raining all week, so I did not need to use a damp box this time. I previously tried calculating the strength of the etchant solution and gave up on that. This time I just added some etchant to the water until I got the results I wanted after a 5 second immersion, which was when the white strands in the damascus pattern started to visibly brighten. When the solution is at that strength, its color reminds me of Lipton's iced tea.

I etched for the first time after doing 3 boil and card cycles, when the metal had a nice even black to it. After that, I did the etch bath every other boil and card cycle. I'm not claiming to be an expert; this was only my second set of damascus barrels, and quite by accident, as I said previously. But I'm reasonably happy with the results, considering that I'm still learning the nuances. Good luck.

[Paul Harm]

That is the same damascus pattern on my C grade Remington. Very nice job. Paul