Not a "Double" but I like it

[Dean Romig]

Just wanted to share this nice find with you all.

I went to a local gun show (5.7 miles from my door) yesterday morning and the usual vendors were in attendance with not much in the way of fine Doubles except for some very interesting guns at the tables of Dick and Craig of Wildwood Guns in Maine.
This show is predominated by militaria, black weapons, all sorts of shooting accoutrements to say nothing of the jerky hawkers. This show is at the Shriner's auditorium and I can usually walk the show and see what I want to see in about forty-five minutes or so.

At the back of the hall on a somewhat obscure table and mixed in with four or five Springfield M-1 .30-'06 Garandes was this sweet little Winchester Model 90 .22 W.R.F. "special order" youth's gun. It is about 32 1/2" overall length with a barrel length of 16" and a LOP of about 12 3/4". The bore is dandy and the barrel has most of its original blue. It is in really nice shape and everything works well with no slop or wiggle. There are the normal nicks and dings to the wood but otherwise it is a beauty.

I resisted the temptation to buy it yesterday but thinking of it this morning and last night just got the better of me so I went back this afternoon and it was still there... :clap:

It came home with me for my Grandkids.

What is the going price for a Winchester Letter?

Pictures added below.




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[Rick Losey]

along with all the other value they bring to your life, grandkids do also give you an excuse to add more equipment :rotf:

[Dean Romig]

Rick, it is a real sweetheart but it doesn't fit me by a longshot.




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[Daryl Corona]

Dean,
Nice find! I just love the old hammer and hammerless pump 22's. Like the Parkers, Foxes and other guns of that era there is a quality built in to those wonderful old guns that can't be duplicated today. I'd love to add that to my collection of vintage 22's. If you ever want to sell it.......

[Steve Huffman]

From Ned Schwings book page 234 there were 3 I said Three model 90s with 16" barrels you may have something there

[charlie cleveland]

nice find there...them little pump guns are highly sought after.... charlie

[Dean Romig]

From Ned Schwings book page 234 there were 3 I said Three model 90s with 16" barrels you may have something there

Well I'll be... I had no idea! It didn't come cheap but the seller never said anything about rarity :shock:

Daryl, I'll certainly remember that you asked first but the Grandkids probably won't be done with it for a long time... but don't worry, we'll take very good care of it.

[Daryl Corona]

I'll wait. I'm a very patient person. With only 3 made it will be worth it. I would even let your great grandchildren play with it.

[Steve Huffman]

Is that a Marbles tang sight ? The magazine also had to be shortend up becaue they were a normal 18" if I remember . Whats the proof mark on the barrel look like?

[Dean Romig]

Yes, it is a Marble's tang sight.

[Dave Suponski]

Nice find Dean...Congratulations. The grandkids are gonna have a ball! I'll start saving up the soda cans for ya.....

[edgarspencer]

Dean, Model 1890s have always held a reserved parking place in my heart. I've had many and plenty of the '06 also, but the 90 seems more refined. I have one in WRF also, and it is one of very few long barreled ones (can't even remember how long it is.) I couldn't refuse the crazy offers I was getting and sold my fixed frame 90. The idiot who bought it had it "restored" including CC (by a well know name who ought to be ashamed of himself). It was hideous
I have a fair bit of WRF is you need any.

Cody wasn't able to letter my fixed frame. Something about missing years. Since only the first 100 or so were fixed frame, seems to me it wasn't real hard to figure out the year. Their letters are obscenely expensive, especially when compared to PGCA

[Steve Huffman]

Dean I am no authority on guns I was into Winchesters heavy and forget alot I read if I dont keep up on them. You guys are to blame since the word Parker came into my world, I think a letter is a $100 .00 unless someone could find a true fault, I would invest in it .

[Dean Romig]

I have a fair bit of WRF is you need any.



I would be more than happy to releive you of as much WRF .22 ammo as you're willing to part with. I understand Black Hills makes the stuff but I'd rather help you if you need to sell yours. Please name your price.

[Dean Romig]

Please tell this neophyte what a "fixed frame" Model 90 is.

[Steve Huffman]

Non take down .

[Daryl Corona]

The thumbscrew on the left side of the receiver enables you to breakdown the rifle for cleaning or transporting.

[Steve Huffman]

Dean you can get the ammo at any show they made a huge run of it .

[Dennis V. Nix]

I used to have a Model 90 in .22 Long Rifle. It was a very sweet shooting and extremely accurate rifle. When I owned it the gun did in a bobcat and a coyote from my front door in CO. It also did in its share of rabbits and squirrels for the pot and a large rattlesnake also near my door. Your Model 90 is a beauty and should be a tremendous shooter. I think with the rarity of your Model 90 whatever the Winchester letter costs will be worth the price. Many fakes abound.

Dennis

[Richard Flanders]

Nice gun. Definitely unusual with the short bbl and tang sight. I'd have snagged it also. The old Win .22 pumps are getting very expensive, even the 62A's. My favorite shop in Anchorage picked up a .22 collection of 200+ guns recently, predominantly Winchester pumps and some incredible specimens. There were a lot of mod 90's in many configurations, but none like yours Dean.

[Bill Murphy]

Dean, letters are $60. Info is available from serial #1 to #329,999. #20,000 to 29,999 are missing. What is your number? bbhc.org

[edgarspencer]

Bill, I had a 2 digit fixed frame they couldn't letter because of blanks in the info.
$60 is reasonable. I was told by someone looking for a '76 letter it was $350. They probably have different prices, as does Colt.

[Rich Anderson]

Nice find Dean just goes to show you never know what you might find. Ihave one in 22 short. It was called a gallery gun as they were used in county fairs at the shooting booth. Remember when you could go to the fair and try to shoot the metal chickens?

[Bill Murphy]

Edgar, I have seen the sliding fee schedule on Colts, but the Cody website doesn't say anything about a sliding scale on special order Winchester rifles. Have you noticed how PGCA gouges its member on higher grade build cards? If you happen to have a high grade gun, you get to pay $300 for a Parker build card, $200 more than for low grades.

[Dean Romig]

This Winchester's serial number range is in the 360-thousand range.
I'll definitely spring for a letter on this one. Thanks to everyone for the interest and advice on this great little find. I'll keep you all posted as I learn more.

[Bill Murphy]

According to the Cody website, your number is out of the range available for provenance.

[Dennis V. Nix]

Realizing that 3 does not constitute much of a serial number range, I am curious as to whether Ned Schwings book would list somewhat of a serial number range for the 3 known similar rifles and if this rifle fits into that range.

Dennis

[Steve Huffman]

From the book pg. 234.Of the 329,999 model 90s that are in the factory warehouse records, only 117 were sold with barrel lengths longer or shorter than standard 24 inches . Roughly half of these special order guns were sold with barrels longer than standard and the other half shorter than standard. The preferred length of shorter than standard barrel was the 20- and 21- inch lengths .Together these two accounted for 78.3 percent of barrel lengths shorter tan 24 inches. Page 235there is a chart 90-8 that is dealing with special order barrel lengths serial number 1-329,999 3-16", 3-18" 2-19" 25-20" 22-21" 5- 22" 10- 26" 47- 29".
Dean from your serial number range puts it made 3/2 1908 and it makes it a third model and the book says the factory warehouse records do not show that any Third model rifle was sold with special order barrel lengths between serial numbers 322,250and 329,999 . Yours being higher I dont know what to say but I will read on !

[Dean Romig]

Steve, my barrels are stamped with three patent dates, the latest of which is May 30, 1911.
Again, thanks for your interest and research.

[Steve Huffman]

I dont think this gun is what we want it to be, but will work for what you bought it for. I could type in for months but we cant change the fact we have a receiver made in 1908 with a barrel with a 1911 pat.date Is the proof mark on the barrel a p over w in a circle or just a p in a circle ? It may have been sent back and had a new barrel added or someone did some work on their own.

[Dean Romig]

The top of the barrel at the breech has both proof marks that you refer to. The P over W in the circle is less that one 1/2" forward of the P in the circle and that one is 3/4" forward of the frame.

[edgarspencer]

Many years ago, I had a place in KS do some work on an 1890. It had a shot out bore, and they slid a perfect new sleeve down to the last 1/8". You would have to look hard to see it. This isn't an issue for your gun, as you probably have a better bore than that gun had. What they did do, that made it even more fun, was convert it to shoot (only) .22MRF. The advantage was it gave it alot more snot, which the bolt and action easily can handle, and also, to be able to use ammo much more readily available. The place was called the 90-06 Armory. We're talking 25+ years ago, and they may not even be around anymore, but if they could do it, there are probably others that can also. As I recall, they used a carrier already deepened and didn't modify mine, which was returned with the gun. Another "shudda kept it" gun. Oh Gawd, now I'm starting to relive the shuddas.

[John Dallas]

A bit off topic, but - a friend who has more money than gun sense or kinowledge found a Winchester 03 deluxe at an OGCA show which had been brightly refinished. He bought it and brought it back to our table. He told us he thought it would be good for shooting rats in the dump with his boys. When we pointed out that he needed Winchester Automatic ammunition, he mumbled "I knew that" (yeah, right) and headed off to an ammo collector and bought a brick of .22 Auto. Don't think the gun has ever been shot since then

[edgarspencer]

The rats gotta get pretty ugly before I'd go for an '03 over a .22LR. My 63s give me just as much fun for alot less cost, and I sold my last 03s. I still have 5 or 6 newish Remington boxes of .22 Win Auto, if anyone is looking for any.

[Steve Huffman]

Dean could you show a picture of the proof marks ? Also is the receiver marked WRF where the magazine tube enters it should be like a semi circle .

[Dean Romig]

Sorry about the lack of clarity - my good camera is on the fritz.




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[Steve Huffman]

The P in circle means mail order parts proof mark so your barrel was replaced outside the Winchester factory. Is the muzzle of the barrel blued and flat or just unfinished and flat I think what you have is a nice little idea of someones WRF. How is the dovetail job on the front sight is it nice and sharp ? I am wondering if the barrel was ordered at the current length or cut down later its kinda like Parkers Never say never !!!

[Dean Romig]

What do the letters "WRF" indicate?

No, wait.... Winchester Rim Fire right

The dovetail cuts are very clean and precise.

[edgarspencer]

right. WCF (as in .44WCF, etc) is Winchester Center Fire.
I found out last night that a Model 1894, made in 1895, that I bought at KTP in January, has a replacement barrel on it. I was devastated, for 9, maybe even 10 seconds.

[edgarspencer]

The first 19 Winchesters brought in $1,001,500
!5 SAAs brought $840,000. one went for 175K, another went for 245k.
Im not gonna spoil the excitement for Dean. Go see what the 1890s went for.
My heart was in the 1894s

[Dean Romig]

I see lots 2108, 2109, 2110, 2111, 2112, 2113 and their estimated values but don't know where to find their hammer prices - please show me Edgar.

[edgarspencer]

Sign in to artfact.com, and the prices realized will be beneath each listing. $5000 Model 1890s are a new one on me.

2108:$11,000
2109:$8,000
2110:$5,000
2111:$2,000
2112:$5,000
2113:$1,550 (musta been a clunker)

[Dean Romig]

Goodness... however, those were pretty high condition guns.

[Steve Huffman]

Very High !!!

[Bill Murphy]

Dean and Edgar, don't give me any grief, but a friend who is a home improvement contractor recently bought a Model 90 from a customer. He asked me how odd a pistol grip is on a 90. I told him it was a bit uncommon. He showed it to me a few weeks ago. It is a pistol grip Deluxe in .22 Short. The checkering is a bit faint, but the gun is ......

[edgarspencer]

I'll give you grief if you don't bring it to Baltimore.

I told him it was a bit uncommon. .

Uh, just a teeny bit.

[Dean Romig]

:envy:

[Bill Murphy]

My friend has turned in this super rare Model 90 into his favorite basement gun and has no interest in selling it. Oh well.

[edgarspencer]

My friend has turned in this super rare Model 90 into his favorite basement gun and has no interest in selling it. Oh well.

plain PG 90s are somewhat scarce, but not quite into the rare category. Deluxe 90s, checkered and with better than average wood, especially with the checkered forend, are a whole league unto the themselves. God plinks with one of them, in WRF, of coarse. (or is that course?)