Old Reloading Manuals - 2 7/8" 10ga recipes

[Pete Lester]

Does anyone have any old reloading manuals laying around? Seems like they would be a good source of hard to find short ten recipes, although some components are no longer available. I have a 1967 Hercules Powder guide coming I bought on Ebay and I am hoping to win some 1970's Hercules guides and a 1968 Hodgman Manual. Attached is scan from a 1997 IMR guide. I was surprised 57 primers were still available then.

[CraigThompson]

I shot up a bunch of old Remington Peters 10 gauge 2 7/8" plastic shells I remmember going in the gunshop with my grandfather to buy in 1970 . And when I went to reload the hulls I found out they were for the 57 primer also .

[Pete Lester]

I shot up a bunch of old Remington Peters 10 gauge 2 7/8" plastic shells I remmember going in the gunshop with my grandfather to buy in 1970 . And when I went to reload the hulls I found out they were for the 57 primer also .

57 and 157 primers can still be found. People occasionally turn them in for credit at the Kittery Trading Post and they resell them from their "junk" bin.

Do you have any old reloading manuals laying around with short ten recipes?

[CraigThompson]

57 and 157 primers can still be found. People occasionally turn them in for credit at the Kittery Trading Post and they resell them from their "junk" bin.

Do you have any old reloading manuals laying around with short ten recipes?


No the only thing I have with 2 7/8" loads is the BPI 10 gauge manual and their buckshot manual . And to be honest I don't use any of the loads they have listed .

[CraigThompson]

To be totally honest I only have two loads !

The one I use , which I got from Reloader Magazine a few years back when Ross Seyfried did an article on his favourite loads . And it just so happened he has or had a W.&C. Scott 10 gauge with damascus and hammerless just like mine . So I use his load for 1 1/4 ounces of shot for just about everything !

It works out pretty well as I can load 1 1/4 ounces of whatever shot I want inside a SP-10 wad with a 16 gauge 1/4" fiber wad in the bottom of the shot cup and a .135" 10 gauge card wad above the shot . Pushed with 30 grains od SR7625 and lit with a CCI209 .
I can also leave out the birdshot , 16 gauge wad and the card and put twelve 00 Buck pellets for pretty much the same thing !

I have another load writtin down in my loading room somewhere for a 1 1/2 Ounce of shot in the SP-10 , a .135" card wad , Universal Clays and a CCI209 . Don't remmember how much of that off the top of my head . But to be honest I'm quite satisfied with the load I'm using at 1 1/4 ounces . And hopefully I can come up with a decent roundball that will fit inside the SP-10 and be safe in my old damascus gun !

[Pete Lester]

I am trying to find more loads, particularly those that use more common powders such as Green Dot, Herco, 700X, HS-6 etc. I have shot lots of 32gr SR7625 loads myself but a Green Dot load is/would be much more cost efficient. My cost for GD is $20 a pound vs $27 a pound for SR7625. GD and 700X would be more reliable in cold weather as well.

[CraigThompson]

I have shot lots of 32gr SR7625 loads myself but a Green Dot load is/would be much more cost efficient. My cost for GD is $20 a pound vs $27 a pound for SR7625. GD and 700X would be more reliable in cold weather as well.

I dunno it was snow on the ground last season when I used my 10 gauge load with twelve 00 Buck pellets to down a fat doe . Now granted in the New England states it will certainly get colder then here in Virginia . But that load did pretty well for me . Also in the late 2010 dove season it worked well and again there was snow on the ground . I think then the temo was between 22 and 30 . Thats by no means bitterly cold even in VA but it is below freezing .

I'm pretty happy with this load and Unique in my 16 damascus Parker . Now I need to move on to my like new W.&C.Scott 12 and 20 gauge damascus hammerless guns !

Also wanna work on single roundball loads in the short 10 and short 16 !

Back years ago shotgun reloading to me was all about loading enough shells quickly for a skeet or trap shoot the upcoming weekend :shock:

Now if I go shoot skeet I may shoot a couple rounds 10 or 12 times a year . And the rest to date has been for dove or buckshot for deer :whistle:

[CraigThompson]

Pete , while we're at it do you possibly have a spread sheet for the 8 gauge ?

No I don't have one "yet" but it doesn't hurt to get yourself prepared before the fact :cool:

[John Campbell]

JB:
I'm letting a bit of the cat out of the bag here (regards an upcoming DGJ story of mine) but here are two loads that I use in a W&C Scott 10-bore:

Target: Federal case cut to 2 7/8, Win 209 primer, 21.1 grs of Clays, BP deci-Max with 16 ga. .135 card and 3/8 felt wads inside, 1 1/8 oz. of No. 8. Load is 1217 fps and 7640 psi according to Armbrust.

Hunting: 1 3/8 oz of No. 6 in same case, same BP wad, two .135 16 ga cards inside, 28 grs. of Int. Clays. 1246 fps and 10,100 psi by Armbrust.

Best Kensal

[Richard Flanders]

I have found two unopened bricks of #57 primers up here in Ak in the past 5 yrs. Couldn't mail them to anyone and didn't need them myself so didn't buy them. Sure was tempted.

[jim garrett]

Does any one know what powder RST uses for their 2 7/8" lite 10 gauge 1 1/8 - 1 1/4 loads? It is approx. 25 grains of a very find flat spherical powder and also for their 2 1/2" lite 20 gauge loads. It is also a very fine flat spherical powder @ about 16.4 grains

[Pete Lester]

JB:
I'm letting a bit of the cat out of the bag here (regards an upcoming DGJ story of mine) but here are two loads that I use in a W&C Scott 10-bore:

Target: Federal case cut to 2 7/8, Win 209 primer, 21.1 grs of Clays, BP deci-Max with 16 ga. .135 card and 3/8 felt wads inside, 1 1/8 oz. of No. 8. Load is 1217 fps and 7640 psi according to Armbrust.

Hunting: 1 3/8 oz of No. 6 in same case, same BP wad, two .135 16 ga cards inside, 28 grs. of Int. Clays. 1246 fps and 10,100 psi by Armbrust.

Best Kensal

Thanks Kensal, are these star or roll crimp?

[Ray Pond]

I still have some 57s and 97s.

[Bob Brown]

J.B. Books, I have a 1969 Lyman Shotshell Handbook, (first complete edition) with some 10 gauge 2 7/8" and 2 3/4" loads. It has field loads for both lengths and buckshot loads for the 2 7/8". All the 2 7/8" loads are in Remington SP plastic hulls and the 2 3/4" loads are all Canuck paper hulls.
The only powders used are SR7625, SR4756, PB, and AL-7. The buckshot loads are SR7625 or PB. If you're interested in the loads I'll take it into the office and scan and post the data. It might take several days until I make it in though.

[David Holes]

Bob, how many grains of 7625 are they showing for thier buckshot loads. Thanks Dave

[Bob Brown]

Dave, they range from 36.5 to 38 grains. Each load is for a specific size of buckshot.The 38 grain load is only to be used with 34 pellets of #4 buck, the 37 grain load is only for 34 pellets of #3 buck, ect. The 38 grain load is 1325 fps. A 38 grain load of PB with 9 pellets of #000 buck is 1405 fps. All the short 10 loads are roll crimps.

J.B., have you ever looked at the Gun Digest Book, "Reloading for Shotguns"? I have the 5th edition and it has a half dozen field loads for the 2 7/8" 10 gauge that use Herco, Unique, IMR 800X, and Universal. Not many loads, but one with 1 1/4 oz. of shot and 36 grains of Herco is 7050 psi. Looks like a useful load in the old girls. There is also a half dozen buckshot loads using the same powders in the 2 7/8" as well. At least the components for these would still be available.

[Pete Lester]

J.B. Books, I have a 1969 Lyman Shotshell Handbook, (first complete edition) with some 10 gauge 2 7/8" and 2 3/4" loads. It has field loads for both lengths and buckshot loads for the 2 7/8". All the 2 7/8" loads are in Remington SP plastic hulls and the 2 3/4" loads are all Canuck paper hulls.
The only powders used are SR7625, SR4756, PB, and AL-7. The buckshot loads are SR7625 or PB. If you're interested in the loads I'll take it into the office and scan and post the data. It might take several days until I make it in though.

This would be great Bob. I am in the process of putting together an Excel spreadsheet with any printed information for 2 7/8" 10ga. So far I have data from Speer #7, Hercules Powder Guide 1968, Lyman 2nd and 3rd editions, Handloader #81, Handloaders Digest 97, Ballistic Products Deci-Max (VP100), Dupont Powder Guide 1965, Nice Shot, plus a couple of loads posted here. I am awaiting arrival in the mailbox of further vintage guides from Hercules and Hodgdon. Although some of the components are no longer available, Rem SP hull, 57 primer etc. These loads give some ballpark ideas on what powders will work and an idea of how much powder to use. It's then up to us to develop and test what we put together. I'll be glad to share when it's more complete and appreciate any info you can send along.


J.B., have you ever looked at the Gun Digest Book, "Reloading for Shotguns"? I have the 5th edition and it has a half dozen field loads for the 2 7/8" 10 gauge that use Herco, Unique, IMR 800X, and Universal. Not many loads, but one with 1 1/4 oz. of shot and 36 grains of Herco is 7050 psi. Looks like a useful load in the old girls. There is also a half dozen buckshot loads using the same powders in the 2 7/8" as well. At least the components for these would still be available.

The 1968 Hercules Guide has 3" 10ga with 1 1/4 ounce loaded with 42 grains of Herco at 1360 fps. No hull or primer specified, no reported PSI, I am assuming roll crimp for lack of info. This sounds like a real "screamer" probably near SAAMI max pressure. Good to see such comparisons.

[Pete Lester]

TTT. My spreadsheet is coming along and I am impatiently awaiting the mailman each day for my vintage reloading guides I purchased with hopes of further updates. If anyone has something to contribute please send along, I intend to share my spreadsheet with everyone here when complete. Thanks.

[John Campbell]

JB:
The 10-bore loads I contributed were both folded crimp. I suppose a roll crimp could be substituted and a little less pressure generated.

Best, Kensal

[Ray Pond]

this may be of some value to yu all. www.cornellpubs.com Abby has reprints of lots of the old reloading manuals and some originals. just go to the web site and scroll down on the left till you get to reloading ,click on it and your in heaven. Hope this helps.

[Pete Lester]

A 1970 Hercules catalog arrived in the mail yesterday. It contained the same load data as the 1968 version I obtained. The difference being the 1970 catalog gave specifics on hull type and primer wheras the '68 version did not. Neither cites chamber pressures. Unique is looking like it is a very good powder for use in composite barrels with 1 1/4 ounce lead loads for sure and my intuition based on multiple sources tells me 1 3/8 ounce and perhaps 1 1/2 ounce loads could be tamed to sub 9000 psi with it. I am now awaiting arrival of some mid to late '70's Hercules guides with the hopes they provide further details especially chamber pressures.

If my personal calculations are correct (and I believe I am close) my home brewed crow load of 2 7/8" Fed Hull, Win 209 primer, 27 gr of Green Dot, SP10 wad, .135 NC and folded crimp should be giving around 1150fps and 7600 psi. This will have to be sent out for testing to confirm. My calculations also indicate using 29 gr of Unique in this load should bring about 1220 fps and 7200 psi, again needs to be sent for testing to confirm.


If you decide to use these loads it is at your own risk because they are based on educated guesstimates

As EDM used to say, investigation continues.

[Ray Pond]

1967 Alcan 10 ga. 2 7/8 1330 fps 1 5/8 AL- 5 44 Grs. 2-.135" + 3/8" FBS
1330 fps 1 5/8 AL-5 41 Grs. PGS + .135" + 3/8" FBS
1335 fps 1 1/4 AL-5 41 Grs. 2 - .200 + 3/8" FBS
1335 fps 1 1/4 AL-5 38 Grs. PGS + .135" + 1/2" FBS
1300 fps 1 1/4 AL-120 37 Grs. 2- .200" + 3/8 " FBS
1300 fps 1 1/4 AL-120 34 Grs. PGS + 2- .135" + 3/8" FBS
All using Alcan 220 MAX-FIRE primers and no to 50 to 60 pounds of wad pressure. Wad pressure should be adjusted to form the perfect crimp.

[Pete Lester]

Amazingly I have a little bit of AL-5 in a small can. Does anyone know if Alcan went out of business completely or were they bought up and their products marketed under another name and designation?

[Paul Harm]

Ray, that's a great web site. Had it bookmarked for another reason - have to go back and look again. Paul

[Pete Lester]

I also sent questions to Alliant referencing the load I came up with on my own seeking information and advice. The response was disappointing.

"Unfortunately we have no data for 2 7/8" 10 ga shells. I can find no information to verify the loads you are shooting. If I can find anything from some old data sources, I will let you know. Thanks for your note."

Ben Amonette
Technical Service Manager
Alliant Powder Company

[Ray Pond]

Out of Production Reloading Components

Alcan
Incorporated in 1951, Homer Clark Jr's company Alcan is credited with greatly expanding the popularity of shotshell reloading in the United States after World War II1. Most of the components that he sold were imported from Europe and were for reloading shotshells. Alcan did however sell some bullets and rimfire ammunition as well.

In 1972, Smith & Wesson in conjunction with Fiocchi aquired Alcan after the company had apparently over extended itself. Smith & Wesson continued to manufacture ammunition and components under the Alcan Name until about 1980.

[Paul Harm]

Pete, Ben and I have been emailing each other for a bit now about a load you posted. When I mentioned damascus I got a quick reply. I've been trying to enlighten him that low pressure loads for the 12 and 10ga would be nice as there are many who shoot the old SxS's. Paul

[Pete Lester]

Pete, Ben and I have been emailing each other for a bit now about a load you posted. When I mentioned damascus I got a quick reply. I've been trying to enlighten him that low pressure loads for the 12 and 10ga would be nice as there are many who shoot the old SxS's. Paul

I am sure you did get a quick reply. I think it is best to discuss such matters with a powder company that it's for use for use in old fluid steel guns. Most of the world is not enlightened about the strength of good condition thick damascus and twist steel barrels. Alliant has to concern themselves with product liability laws and I suspect once use of nitro in composite barrels comes up the discussion will end quickly. Hopefully I am wrong.

[charlie cleveland]

bet your rite pete about not getting much of a discussion out of the powder companys about wanting some loads for the damascus barreled guns...i think it would be a short answer or no answer at all..... charlie

[Paul Harm]

I told him I understood his position - covering your ass - but did it in a polite manner. Also explained we like low pressure/recoil loads so the action doesn't get shot loose or 100+ year old wood isn't spliting. And there are more and more people shooting the old SxS's. Because autos need a certain amount of pressure, he's used to thinking higher pressures and thinks 9700psi is low pressure. I let him know we're used to shooting at 7000psi or less with no problems. He seems like a nice fellow - maybe he'll get back with me again. Paul

[Richard Flanders]

The Lyman 3d edition shotshell handbook has 2-7/8" 10ga load recipes.

[Pete Lester]

The Lyman 3d edition shotshell handbook has 2-7/8" 10ga load recipes.

Thanks Richard, I found that info and it's on the first page of my spreadsheet on the thread below. If you know of any other sources please send them along and I'll update it.

http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6282

[John Campbell]

Mr. Forge:
Allow me to let you in on a little (very little) secret: The legal adversity to Damascus barrel guns in the US is exclusively due to early 20th century advertising bull pucky. You probably know this by instinct.
But -- as a professional advertising BS artist for almost 30 years -- I can tell you that the aversion to Damascus barrel guns was a scam to instill fear in older technology so the gun companies could sell more. and cheaper, fluid steel barrels.
Once this glorious BS was accepted as fact (like global warming) it was codified by junk science and became a foundation for legal precedent.
Nobody much cared about the UK's position and experience with the same metal compound.
Thus, you are unlikely to get any clear answer from any corporation about "safe" Damascus loads. They are too fearful of liability based on junk science -- and advertising BS.

Best, Kensal

[charlie cleveland]

ive shot a many of a heavy loads in these old unsafe barrels....only barrel i ever had blow up was the new fluid steel barrel.... charlie

[Richard Flanders]

The heaviest loads I shoot in any gun I have are put through my 1883 0-grade twist bbl hammer gun and I have no worries whatsoever about it.

[charlie cleveland]

how heavy are the loads richard that you shoot through your gun... charlie

[Richard Flanders]

I've put a lot of 3-3/4dram, 1-1/4oz loads through it and even some 1-1/2oz magnum loads with no issues so far. It has stout bbls.

[Paul Harm]

I've heard of one fellow putting steel shot through a damascus Parker with more than .040 chokes - been doing it for years. So much for nothing more than a Mod choke. Paul