Fishtail Top Levers

[CraigThompson]

What can you guys tell me about "Fishtail Top Levers" on Parker hammerless guns ?

I've been looking at what "appears" to be a rather nice damascus 10 gauge E grade that dates to 1892 .

[Dean Romig]

There are a good number of examples. What would you like to know?

The subject is pretty thoroughly covered in The Parker Story.

[william faulk]

The 'Fishtail' openers were leftover inventory from the hammer gun productions untill they were gone.

[Dean Romig]

The 'Fishtail' openers were leftover inventory from the hammer gun productions untill they were gone.


If I may...

"One AH grade gun with this hooked lever and several other of higher grade than the lowest PH grade have been reported. Thus, it cannot be said that Parker Brothers was just using up older parts on lower grade guns. The surviving Parker record books have no clues on this lever."

Quoted from page 126 of The Parker Story by Gunther, Mullins, Parker, Price & Cote.

[Brian Dudley]

The fishtail top lever was a feature used on the hammer guns for a functional purpose of being able to open the gun when it is cocked, or cock the gun when open. This is in most cases at least. The purpose of putting them on the Hammerless models is pretty much unknown. Apart from using up left over parts, or by customer request/demand. However, I am sure that if customers were requesting them, it would be mentioned in the stock books. But there has not been any talk of this.

I personally like the look of the hooked lever on hammerless guns. It adds an additional touch of aesthetic elegance in my opinion.

Another benefit that I, at least, have noticed in the hooked lever is from a point of irgonomics. The hooked lever puts the end closer to a right hand shooters thumb, thus making it easier to reach and easier to open. Since the thumb does not have to travel as far over the top of the receiver as with a straight lever.

This is one benefit or function that I have not heard mentioned too much, just a thought of mine.

[Dave Suponski]

The Parker Story states "hooked top levers were used on hammerguns after about 1885 and were used on hammerless through 1892" I have a hammerless with the hooked top lever in the 68000 range but I have owned a 10 gauge in the 74000 range that was equipped with one and that would put that gun being made in 1892 also.

Does anyone have a gun made later with the hooked top lever?

[Ray Masciarella]

Would the Parker Pages indicate the latest reported gun with fishtail?

Of course, I don't know anything about this but it would seem to me that, regardless of grade, Parker just used up old stock. Hammer gun production slowed a lot after 1890 or so. No reason to discard them. Grade was dependent on engraving rather then style of lever. Today, companies just throw old parts out because their lawyers (like me) tell them to do so but back then that didn't happen. Since Parker still offered a hammer gun after hammerless came out, they were probably not just used up in all early hammerless production because they still needed them for hammer guns.

What is interesting is that some hammer guns made well before hammerless production began actually have straight levers. I have seen an A grade made in about 1885 with a straight lever that looked original to the gun.

Anyway, Im really not qualified to opine but just share my thoughts.

Ray

[Brian Dudley]

I have a P grade with hooked lever. It is a mishmash of parts, but the action is S/N 67266.

[George Blair]

SN 73303 is a BH 1 frame with hooked top lever...no mention of lever in letter .George

[Dave Purnell]

At this point I have one hammer gun with a fishtail lever. It does NOT allow the action to be opened with the hammer cocked, so I don't believe that was a consideration at all. If it ever did work this way, I think it was just happenstance. I think the fishtail was for aesthetics only, plus being an easier reach for either right or left thumb on opening.

Above all else, Parker Brothers were innovators. They were not afraid of trying a new idea. If it worked and took off in popularity (and sales), then it was continued. If it didn't make a measurable difference in sales or popularity, then old stock was used up, and they moved on. This was just good business sense. It was then and it is now. And Charles Parker, in the day, was an extremely savvy businesman.

IMHO, Dave

[Dean Romig]

Another benefit that I, at least, have noticed in the hooked lever is from a point of irgonomics. The hooked lever puts the end closer to a right hand shooters thumb, thus making it easier to reach and easier to open. Since the thumb does not have to travel as far over the top of the receiver as with a straight lever.

This is one benefit or function that I have not heard mentioned too much, just a thought of mine.


Oddly enough, the authors of TPS suggest the ergonomic advantage of the hooked lever to left-handed shooters.

[Dean Romig]

Of course, I don't know anything about this but it would seem to me that, regardless of grade, Parker just used up old stock. Hammer gun production slowed a lot after 1890 or so. No reason to discard them. Grade was dependent on engraving rather then style of lever. Today, companies just throw old parts out because their lawyers (like me) tell them to do so but back then that didn't happen. Since Parker still offered a hammer gun after hammerless came out, they were probably not just used up in all early hammerless production because they still needed them for hammer guns.


We share similar opinions and I think that, due to lack of any evidence, the authors correctly state "it cannot be said" that a common assumption be the last word.

[Richard Flanders]

I sure can't see how the fishtail lever could be of advantage to left hand shooters but do think that, purely as a safety issue, every hammer gun should have one that allows opening the gun with the right hammer cocked. I would really like that on my hammer guns, especially when I'm in a crowded duck blind with other hunters and a dog and my hands are frozen stiff.....

[Dave Purnell]

Rich, I can only speak of my own experience. With the hand wrapped around the wrist of the gun, the thumb, of either hand, has an easier reach and grasp to the lever with a fishtail, than a straight lever. Whether it opens when cocked would be an advantage, but not all do, means to me, it was not intended.

Dave

[Greg Baehman]

At this point I have one hammer gun with a fishtail lever. It does NOT allow the action to be opened with the hammer cocked, so I don't believe that was a consideration at all. If it ever did work this way, I think it was just happenstance. I think the fishtail was for aesthetics only, plus being an easier reach for either right or left thumb on opening.

Above all else, Parker Brothers were innovators. They were not afraid of trying a new idea. If it worked and took off in popularity (and sales), then it was continued. If it didn't make a measurable difference in sales or popularity, then old stock was used up, and they moved on. This was just good business sense. It was then and it is now. And Charles Parker, in the day, was an extremely savvy businesman.

IMHO, Dave
Well I'll be a sonofagun, right up until the moment I read this I had always been under the assumption that the fishtail toplever was so that one COULD open the action with the hammers cocked...I learn something new everyday around here. :bowdown:

[Brian Dudley]

At this point I have one hammer gun with a fishtail lever. It does NOT allow the action to be opened with the hammer cocked, so I don't believe that was a consideration at all. If it ever did work this way, I think it was just happenstance. I think the fishtail was for aesthetics only, plus being an easier reach for either right or left thumb on opening.
IMHO, Dave

TPS does mention that 1 frame Hammer parkers still have interference. Even with the hooked lever. The one hammer gun that I have owned with the hooked lever was able to open when cocked. And with how close that lever was to the hammer, it would surely not have been able to be done with a straight lever.

[Dean Romig]

From what I've read, both in TPS and by Forum posters, the larger frame (bigger bore) guns were less apt to be affected by the interference of the straight lever and the right hammer.

I have three sixteen-gauge, 0-frame TA hammerguns with the fishtail top lever and all three open easily with the right hammer cocked and on these three guns it would not be possible to do so if they were equipped with the straight lever.

Every serious Parker shooter/collector/afficionado should have both volumes of The Parker Story.
A good amount of new information has come to light since publication but TPS truly is the very best source of compiled Parker information for the Parkerphile.

[Dave Purnell]

Well, y'all forced me to dig out "The Parker Story", and I must say you are right in all your quotes. I was speaking from supposed experience with my gun, but as TPS says sometimes a smaller frame gun would not open even with a fishtail lever. My gun in question is a one frame gun.

In answer to the inquiry of the original poster, buy the gun if you like it, even though it's not written in the Parker Story, the fishtail lever is "sexy as hell!"

Dave

[Brian Dudley]

You said it right.

[Fred Preston]

All two of my hammer Parkers are lifters; no problem. Why did the Brothers give up on a good thing? A marketing fad?

[CraigThompson]

In answer to the inquiry of the original poster, buy the gun if you like it, even though it's not written in the Parker Story, the fishtail lever is "sexy as hell!"


I just may do so if the oppurtunity presents itself !

But to be honest I'd prefer the straight lever .

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

I'll take the good old lifter any time! seems the way it should be, but I don't know anything, maybe like the old style cause I am old. Hammer guns rule!

[Austin W Hogan]

My quick survey shows;

Straight Levers 25 - 35000 all open (all 1 frames)

Straight levers 40 - 50000 some open

Fish Tail Levers 50000 - 160000 some open

Highest hammer serial 159157

Highest fishtail hammerless serial 73201

Nothing conclusive here.

Did the fishtail allow the lever to be a few degrees off alignment without being noticably out of line?

Best, Austin

[CraigThompson]

My quick survey shows;

Straight Levers 25 - 35000 all open (all 1 frames)

Straight levers 40 - 50000 some open

Fish Tail Levers 50000 - 160000 some open

Highest hammer serial 159157

Highest fishtail hammerless serial 73201

Nothing conclusive here.

Did the fishtail allow the lever to be a few degrees off alignment without being noticably out of line?

Best, Austin

You left out to many words in all but your highest seriel numbers for me to totally understand what you "quick survery" is trying to tell me !

Hence you call it inconclusive at this point it's meanigless for me !

What do the straight and fishtail numbers in the first 3 make reference to ? Serial number range or total manufactured ?

[CraigThompson]

I'll take the good old lifter any time! seems the way it should be, but I don't know anything, maybe like the old style cause I am old. Hammer guns rule!

To each his own . WHile I do own a couple visible hammer drillings I'd just as soon have all my double guns to be non visible hammers or hammerless as we so incorrectly say .

[Dave Suponski]

Craig,Mr. Hogan is referring to serial number range.

[CraigThompson]

Craig,Mr. Hogan is referring to serial number range.

Thanks !

[Austin W Hogan]

Does anyone have:

A top action S/N less than 50000 with fish tail?

A top action S/N more than 50000 with straight lever?

If so send it to Josh for Parkers Found

Best, Austin

[Bruce Day]

SN 36,491, hooked top lever.

Will not open with right hammer cocked.

[gordon smith]

I have #51446 with fish tail- is a grade 1 with a 1 stamped on watertable/ has Laminated bbls and coat $65 in 1887.

[Austin W Hogan]

That is one of the best, Bruce. I think that high grades in the 25 - 40000 s/n range may be the best of all Parkers.
There was a first year production top lever with fish tail at the Annual Meeting two years ago.

Does anyone have a hammerless S/N 100000 or greater with fish tail?

Best, Austin