A C Grade without Barrels

[Bill Murphy]

Somewhere out there is a CH 12 gauge with non original barrels, or a receiver in someone's junk box, serial number 86988. It is a #2 frame, originally made with a straight grip. Many years ago it was parted out or rebarrelled at the factory maybe. I have the two sets of Bernard barrels, 28" and 32", and the accompanying forends. I would sure like to put this great set back together. Does anyone know the location of this gun? Thanks for looking. Bruce?

[Dean Romig]

It would be wonderful to put that gun back together with those original barrels and forends - I sure hope you find it!

You just can't trust those dangerous old barrels! Who can blame the old fellow for replacing them?

[Chris Travinski]

Wow Bill, that's quite a find! My guess would be that the gun is gone if the forends are still on the barrels, but it would be neat to put them back together.

[Jack Cronkhite]

Bill: Well this is about as exciting as Google can get

Here you go CLICK (http://www.parker-shotguns.com/parker-shotgun-value/)

Scroll down to question 18 on the page

Paul Ludwig Says:
November 22nd, 2011 at 8:47 pm

I have a Parker Bros 12 gauge double barrel shotgun. Serial NO. 86988. Manufactured 1889. What is the value? I want to sell.

Hope that's it and you can buy it or find who did. November 22, 2011 is not that long ago.

Good luck

Jack

[Bill Murphy]

I am on it like a Wirehair on a black squirrel. If I succeed in contacting this guy, I will erect a memorial to you at the next PGCA annual meeting. This is my longest term Parker search, probably 25 years at the least. I not only have the barrels and the forends, I have the original (lettered) Parker Brothers #38 case for this gun. Stay tuned.

[Jack Cronkhite]

No memorial needed. One day, I may show up and be happy just to shoot it - preferably obtaining edible protein as a result. Good luck. :):):)

Jack

[Chris Travinski]

The anticipation is killing me, I can't imagine how you are feeling right now Bill. Play it cool!!

[Ken Descovich]

:corn:

[Mike Shepherd]

This is my longest term Parker search, probably 25 years at the least. I not only have the barrels and the forends, I have the original (lettered) Parker Brothers #38 case for this gun. Stay tuned.

If the Good Lord shoots a Parker Bill is a shoe-in through the Pearly Gates.

Best,

Mike

[Robert Delk]

This is worthy of a Spielberg movie,at least. I would have to double my blood pressure meds if I was Mr. Murphy.I hope your karma is in first class condition and you are rewarded for a noble and altruistic life.

[David Long]

I hope this all works out I think someone else is trying to buy the parker he told someone named Paul That the man that had the barrels had called him and he told paul to call him

[Robert Delk]

Never having met Mr. Murphy I still think it would be fitting for him to finally get the gun ,given his contributions to the store of Parker knowledge that now exists and his willingness to share.

[Bill Murphy]

Things are progressing. The website owner is waiting to hear from the owner of the gun. I will keep you informed.

[David Long]

This is great

[Bobby Cash]

:whistle:
Reunited and it feels so good
Reunited 'cause Bill understood
There's one perfect fit
And, Murphy, this one is it
We are all so excited
'Cause they're reunited, hey, hey
:whistle:

Best of luck!!

[Bill Murphy]

It isn't over yet.

[Russ Jackson]

:whistle:
Reunited and it feels so good
Reunited 'cause Bill understood
There's one perfect fit
And, Murphy, this one is it
We are all so excited
'Cause they're reunited, hey, hey
:whistle:

Best of luck!!

Bobby ,VERY CLEVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rotf: Best of luck with this Bill ,it would be almost unbelievable ! Would be a Great PP's Story ! Russ

[Bobby Cash]

It isn't over yet.

I'd pay cash money to see this reunification.
I bet I'm not alone.

[Chris Travinski]

Any contact with the owner yet?

[David Long]

??????????????????????????????????

[William Maynard]

:corn:Any contact with the owner yet?

[Bill Murphy]

Not yet. Apparently the webmaster is not getting replies to his emails to the owner. The telephone contact information is apparently misplaced. I am a bit depressed at the moment.

[Chris Travinski]

You have his name, any idea where he lives?

[William Maynard]

Keep your head up!:)

[David Long]

I can t wait i hope it works out

[Steve Huffman]

Bill Send me the barrels and all your stress will be gone ,stress will kill a person slowly!

[Bill Murphy]

Actually, the barrels live on a very nice DH grade gun provided to me by our BOD member, John Davis. The fit is as good or better than if they were installed at the factory. It has not yet been determined where Paul Ludwig, the owner of #86988 lives.

[Chris Travinski]

Bill, I feel like I should be helping some way but I'm lost. Unfortunately there are alot of search results for Paul Ludwig. Will the website guy give you his phone number? If you had it you could do a reverse search and find where he lives. Doesn't sound like you getting much from this guy.

[William Maynard]

:draw:Bill, I have an idea! Why not post your own add on the website and maybe someone will know who he is.. Don't give up!

[Dave Noreen]

Bud Stanley, of the web site, is always at the Spokane gun shows. He is the guy I bought the 32-inch 1-frame 20-gauge barrels from that I then sold to you Bill.

[Phillip Carr]

This is a one in a million. It would be great to reunite the gun and barrels. After reading the last posting, It mades me ask about the 32" 20 gauge barrels. I own S/N 105459 it was ordered by O. R. Dickey 7/29/01. It is a GH with a straight grip stock and pad and ordered with 32" Damascus barrels choked FULL/FULL. At some point in its life it went back and had 26" Twist barrels installed. I have always hoped to find the original barrels, another one in a million.

Phil

[Jim DiSpagno]

Phil, contact Chuck Brunner at Greene's Guns. He just listed a GH 20, Straight grip belonging to O.R. Dickey and he may well have a lead for you. This was from a family estate I believe. Jim

[Bill Murphy]

Orren R. Dickey was a high volume gun dealer in Boston. His name is on hundreds of Parker orders.

[David Long]

??????????

[charlie cleveland]

any luck yet ...suuspence is killing me... charlie

[Bill Murphy]

I'm not getting a lot of cooperation.

[David Long]

Whats going on

[David Long]

I don t guess this is going happen

[Dean Romig]

Patience and perseverence often pays... but perseverence pays best.

[Bill Murphy]

Back on the track. I'll let you know.

[Bill Murphy]

Contact, by email today! Thanks for your confidence, Dean. I haven't given up on the Norris gun either. Jack Cronkite gave me the original source of contact. I'll keep everyone informed.

[Tom Wyraz]

Murph, sorta reminds me of AHF #35. Good luck.

tjw

[Bill Murphy]

Tom, you have a good memory. The Fox #35 barrels cost about $125 and were about a five to ten year search. The CH #86988 barrels cost $400 and this not yet completed search is about 15 to 20 years so far. My search for the gun that goes with my $200 A-1 Special 32" 20 gauge barrels took about ten years. All of the barrels were gun show finds. So far, I have located three guns for four sets of barrels and have not bought one of the guns yet. Maybe this will be the one.

[Bill Murphy]

Things are progressing nicely and a cross country gentleman's exchange has been negotiated. If the gun's back end is presentable, I may actually post my first pictures. The wonderful sets of Bernard barrels and the just as wonderful ex-John Davis DH back end were displayed at the Vintagers a couple of years ago, but the full C grade package should be a bit more impressive.

[Dean Romig]

I can't wait! Keep us informed please Bill. If you have trouble with posting pictures, I can help.

Dean

[Jack Cronkhite]

Cnngratulations Bill. Look forward to pics :)

[charlie cleveland]

bill the parker boys that are upstairs must be lookik after you...hope all goes well....this will make a great storey....i cant wait....charlie

[Bill Murphy]

What's today, July 8, 2012? I have owned these barrels for twenty some years, been running ads on the PGCA website for as long as we have been here. I have periodically posted on Dave Weber's site also. No results. Then, in January of this year, Jack Cronkite ran a google search on the serial number, something I had never thought of doing. His search resulted in a hit that was only three months old. If Jack had tried the google search just four months earlier, the search would have come up dry. With the help of Bud Stanley and his website, and a lot of patience, the owner's email address was flushed out. It took another good while for the owner to respond and I started to doubt that the email address was current or correct. After months of no replies, on July 1, the owner replied, "I do have the shotgun." He related the story of finding it in his attic in PA. By July 3, a fair price was negotiated and now I will pay and wait. To review the discovery of the barrels, a story that has been told here before, here goes. Kevin McCormack and I have displayed Parkers at the Baltimore Antique Gun Show for many years. However many years ago, twenty or more, Kevin came back to our table and told me about a fellow in the back of the room that had two sets of composite Parker barrels for sale. They were housed in a leather trunk case and were priced at $450, an astronomical price for composite Parker barrels at that time. Kevin was not interested but thought I may be. I can't resist a money losing project, so I paid for the barrels and threw them into the gun room. In 1998, I went to Ilion with the PGCA research committee and found the original order for the gun and trunk case, as well as a repair order. I researched the original owner, whose name was engraved on the rib of both sets of barrels. I will tell that story later. Thanks to all who gave me support, especially John Davis, Kevin McCormack, Jack Cronkhite, and Bud Stanley. Dean Romig has offered moral support on this and other searches of mine. Of course, if this project comes to a climax, I will have the owner of the gun to thank also. Apologies to my hero, Jack Cronkhite, for misspelling his name through this entire thread. Stay tuned, it shouldn't be long now.

[Kevin McCormack]

After the above find took place some 20+ years ago, we adopted the working tenet for ALL gun shows; "Don't forget to look UNDER the tables!!!"

[Dean Romig]

Bill, I can't think of a nicer end to the saga of your orphaned barrels. I hope the gun is everything you have wished for in all these years. Congratulations for your perseverence and the faith that the gun would surface someday. This story renews a 'hope' in a lot of us who have orphaned barrels and other parts in our personal gun room inventories. :clap::cheers::cool:

[Dave Suponski]

Bill, This is wonderful news. We are gonna have to find a way for you to get some pictures on here. And maybe a story for Parker Pages?......:whistle:

[Craig Larter]

WOW! Can't wait to see pictures but please display the C at the Vintagers. Great story of friendship and taking a flyer that paid off two decades later. Very nice.

[Tom Wyraz]

Great story Murph....you work hard on your research & dillegence. Congrats! Ya gotta love those money losing projects...I have a list of 'em.

tjw

[greg conomos]

I'm excited about this as much as anyone....but you're going to jinx it if you start the counting before the chickens are hatched.

[Robert Delk]

This is great news for everyone that loves fine guns.I hope the gun is worthy of your efforts and diligence.

[Richard Flanders]

Sounds like a good occasion to pull one of your stockpiled bottles of Jack Daniels special reserve out for a nip or two...

[Todd Schrock]

Thanks for sharing this great story. I hope the end results are as wished!

Todd

[Bill Murphy]

Thanks to all that commented and congratulated. The secured funds are in the mail and I am patiently waiting. 1897 gun, so no FFL to deal with. Communication is cut off because my computer went out just before I left for 11 days in the hospital. Will be home today and will start the serious waiting. I will try to get my friend, Kevin McCormack to spiff up the #38 Parker leather trunk case for the trip to Rick Hemingway's. I know that original Parker walnut cases seem to have survived in some numbers. What is the survival rate of pre-1900 Parker leather cases? This is the first one I remember identifying, certainly the first I have identified from the original order.

[Russ Jackson]

Congratulations Bill ,What a Great Story ! Hope you are Feeling Well !!! By the way ,You Are The Man !!!!!!!!:bowdown: Russ

[charlie cleveland]

that goes for me too what russ said..... charlie

[Jack Cronkhite]

This story deserves the cover of Parker Pages. Patience and Perseverance Pays. :)

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Billhow did the hospital stay go? I hope every thing is OK. The Parker god is watching over for sure! congratulation gary

[Bill Murphy]

Gary, another six or eight weeks gun room recovery for the new right hip. May be able to look at guns at Rick's, not much before.

[Dean Romig]

What happened to your hip? Didja break it? I never saw you limping... and I know from limping, trust me!

Should I get in line for your guns??

Anyway, keep us posted. I expect pictures... USPS is okay - I know you don't post pictures.

[Bill Murphy]

Nope, no broken hip, a replacement, just an aged and abused body on a journey to complete destruction, part by part, day by day. In reference to your second question, I guess I should ask The Lovely Linda to start preparing a Rolodex of current email addresses because my junk is not going to be sold with an 18 1/2% buyer's premium. At my estate sale, a cased .410 Skeet marked at $7500.00 will sell for $7500.00, no tax, no buyer's premium. Y'all come.

[Dean Romig]

At my estate sale, a cased .410 Skeet marked at $7500.00 will sell for $7500.00, no tax, no buyer's premium. Y'all come.

You can't pull that Gene Hill stuff on this crowd... We know that the Lovely Linda knows the true value of your "junk" :cool:

[Rich Anderson]

Bill please pass this on to the Lovely Linda, rlanderson410@msn.com just in case...you know:)

[Bill Murphy]

Linda is not taking this Anderson guy very seriously. The last Parker she sold him was 95% brown and had a 13" stock broken off at the wrist. She has paid more for a washer and dryer. Her profound statement was, "Do we really need rednecks at your estate sale?". I reminded her that she always liked Rich. She threw up her hands and said, "OK, it's your ?@"&:?@ estate sale. Invite who you want.". Rich, don't worry. You're in.

[Dave Suponski]

Bill, As usual the "Lovely Linda" is right. I easy to not take Rich seriously...:) This might be a good time to put in for my invitation...:rolleyes:

On a serious note...I wish you a complete and speedy recovery.

[Richard Flanders]

New hip, eh? Good on you. Looking for work?? I hear the Jets are in need of a place kicker...

[Robin Lewis]

Rich is a redneck?:shock:

[Rich Anderson]

Just wait untill she sees what I did to the last Parker she sold me:eek:

[Bill Murphy]

Rich, if anyone gives you crap about your non ejector project, remind them that my last two or three expensive projects were also non ejector guns. It's the wave of the future.

[Bill Murphy]

I received notification that the owner of the CH back end has received payment, will ship early next week. Things are progressing. I have no pictures and I didn't ask for any. I will try to get Kevin to pick up the case for freshening if he is in the area. I haven't gotten any replies to my case question. "Has anyone seen a pre-1900 Parker leather trunk case? Are there any out there?" Thanks for helping.

[Mark Ouellette]

Hey Bill,

I have a leather covered trunk style Parker case that came with my 1884 Grade 3 Top Action two barrel 10 gauge. The style is listed in that era Parker catalog. I forget which number case it is but number 6 sticks in my head...

Mark

[Bill Murphy]

Thanks, Mark. I bet that's a great looking outfit in that case. Have we ever seen a picture of that gun and case on the forum?

[Mark Ouellette]

Bill,

Nope, I've never shot the case. Since based on your informal survey mine may be the only surviving example of a pre-1900 Parker leather trunk I suppose I should get out the trusty Nikon...

Okay, else has an old Parker trunk case?

Mark

[Jeff Kuss]

Mark,
The case is the reason we were bidding against each other on that gun!
Jeff

[Mark Ouellette]

Jeff,

It is is rather good condition, isn't it? :)

Here's the letter from the gun:

Parker shotgun, serial number 41525, was ordered by Rev. P. J. Kearney in Fulton, NY on June 17, 1884 and shipped on September 27,1884. According to Parker Bros. Order Book No. 16 it was a Quality 3 Top Action hammer, 10-gauge. It featured Damascus steel barrels with a length of 32 inches and 28 inches. Its stock configuration was a pistol grip. According to Parker Bros. Stock Book No. 15, its specifications were: Length of Pull: 14 114", Drop at Heel: 2 7/8", Weight: 8 pounds and 9 ounces with the 28 inch barrels and 9 pounds 15 ounces with the 32 inch barrels. The price was $125.00 plus $60.00 for the extra set of barrels less 20% = $148.00.

Mark

[Bill Murphy]

Wow, that's a great gun. Does the order say anything about the case.

[edgarspencer]

So Bill, are you working on that memorial for Jack?

[Bill Murphy]

Mostly I'm waiting for the mailman. However, when the mailman arrives, I'll get right on that memorial project. Any ideas?

[Mark Ouellette]

Bill,

This letter came with the gun. A case is mentioned.

from: Roy W. Gunther
29 July 1993

Regarding your number 41525 with mixed damascus in one set of the barrels, I have seen this on other guns, but never a Parker. The Parkers were very frugal Connecticut Yankees and were reluctant to throw anything away. Your gun was ordered on June 2 , 1884 by a Rev. P.J. Kearney of Fulton, N.Y. The order included a case and a complete set of tools. The gun was completed on September 9, and shipped on September 27. This gun was directly ordered by Kearney and did not go through a dealer. In cases like this, the individual was always charged list price. In this case, however, Kearney received a 20% discount on the entire order. Perhaps this discount was offered because of the mismatched pattern in the 28 inch barrels. The mismatch would not have been noticed until the barrels had been completely finished and browned. At this point Parker had incurred all the expense involved in making the barrels and throwing them away would have been a complete loss. These extra barrels sold for $60. I guess they figured the discount was the better way to go. Apparently, the Reverend was happy with this arrangement.

It is just by chance that I happened to have the applicable order book here. Normally, I'm not able to get the information on specific orders.

[Bill Murphy]

Commander Gunther is a treasure as is this letter. Kevin McCormack and I lunched with the Commander the day in 1998 that he gifted the PGCA the Parker Brothers stock book copies which he had copied at great expense of time and effort. I'm sure the other members of the research committee will join me in saying "I don't know if we could have done it."

[Paul Stafford]

I can't wait to see pictures of this wonderful reunion. As I have searched all over the 50 states I have not found my bernard barrels for my 12 ga. I suppose you must hope that eventually they pop up if they haven't found a new home. Great story!

[Bill Murphy]

Hey, Mark, the letter from Commander Gunther is great, but do you have a PGCA letter to possibly add to the provenance? Maybe we can confirm the model number of your case. The model number is mentioned on the order for my CH. It is the #38 which is a leather covered shellback case. The "shellback" refers to the provision in the lid for loose ammunition. I haven't looked at my #38 case for years, but will drag it out for Kevin to work his magic.

[Mills Morrison]

This is a great story! Hope to see pictures and an article in Parker Pages:usa:

[Dean Romig]

Paul, what is the serial number of the missing Bernard barrels?

[Paul Stafford]

Paul, what is the serial number of the missing Bernard barrels?

It's 101184, it was an exhibition built c grade built for display purposes "per Parker letter", it's a beautiful gun that at some point was fitted with vickers steel barrels. I just wish to find the originals at any cost. It's just about restoring a classic.

[Dean Romig]

That's odd... 101184 is shown as having been made with Acme Steel barrels, does the letter state otherwise?

[Paul Stafford]

That's odd... 101184 is shown as having been made with Acme Steel barrels, does the letter state otherwise?

I have attached a copy of the letter.

[Dean Romig]

Thanks Paul. That's another example of the importance of getting a research letter as opposed to simply relying on the information contained in the Identification & Serialization book.

Dean

[Bill Murphy]

One of our members sold a set of Bernard barrels on gunbroker.com a while back. As I recall, they were #1 frame. What frame size is your gun?

[Paul Stafford]

It's a #2 frame

[Dave Suponski]

Bill, Any further updates?

[Bill Murphy]

OK, the back end of CH #86988 arrived Monday afternoon, securely packed. I couldn't be more happy to have this journey at an end, except that it is not actually at an end. As the seller warned me, the stock has been repaired, and not a very good job. It is broken off at the wrist, poorly pinned and glued and kind of sanded down and recheckered poorly. There is not enough wood to rerepair and rechecker unless a coating of epoxy is used to bring the grip area up to size. However, I have heard of that being done, but by whom? The easy way out is a restock, but of course I would rather save the original stock if a good repair can be done. The stock is well used, deeply dented, but with original straight grip and skeleton butt. I am inclined to send the whole package to Dave Wolf in Waco for his assessment. The trigger guard tang looks to have been sanded down with the wood, but all other engraving on the gun is untouched with only one ruined receiver screw and one ruined trigger guard screw. The top lever spring is broken or some other problem inside is keeping it from returning under spring tension. This will be one of those guns that I will finish by calling in more than a couple of my repair, stockmaking, and engraving guys. I am still not on my feet, so pictures are a few days away. I put the bird barrels on the gun yesterday while Mr. McCormack was visiting. It may be the first time the gun has been together for many decades. It is some gun with the 28" barrels but did not put it on the scale to check its weight. The original owner, Starling Lebby Hinson, had the pleasure of using the bird barrels on his family's 3500 acre plantation on James Island, South Carolina. There were probably a few quail on the property when he brought the gun home from Charleston in 1897. No specifications were asked of the 32" barrels except "Bore for buckshot and send paper targets." I guess there were a few deer on the property also. More to come.

[tom tutwiler]

Looking forward to those pictures Bill.

[George M. Purtill]

this is a great story.

[Dave Suponski]

Bill, Thanks for the update. This is a great story. I bet she smiled when you snapped those barrels on......:)

[Dean Romig]

If David Trevallion was still in business he would definitely be the one to invisably bring that stock back to its former glory. Anyone know if David is up and running yet?

[Robin Lewis]

I got an update on Dave about a week ago. He is unlicensed at the moment because he moved from his shop/home to a new location. The ATF needs to reissue the papers so ....... ? He didn't move far, he is still in Maine. A fellow PGCA member has his new address and promised to share it with me but as yet I have not learned it. When I do, I can check with Dave and get a more up to date status.

[Bill Murphy]

If David showed interest in this project, I would jump on it. However, I don't expect him to respond. That said, I like David a lot and would appreciate his input.

[Ray Masciarella]

Like Paul, I also have a gun (AH) that was shipped to Tryon on Nov 19, 1901 and Fletcher on Feb 3, 1902 for show/exhibition purposes. Does anyone know what these shows were or the names of these shows? Thx, Ray

[Dean Romig]

We should thank the Good Lord he was able to get to a new location finally.

[Mills Morrison]

Can't wait to see photos of Bill's find. Also the fact that it needs restoration means we will get more installments of this great story.

[Robert Delk]

Huh?

[Paul Plager]

Bill. I'm glad that all the Parker parts have been brought back together, I am more glad that you are doing well in your healing.
So many people have posted on this link so many times that I begin to thing I know them and you. I am relitively new to the Parker & PGCA world and have not yet met anyone else personaly but by reading this post I'm glad I joined and hope to meet other members like yourself. God bless.

[Bill Murphy]

Pictures are on hold awaiting Mr. McCormack's fluffing of the case. The gun will be out for a top lever spring and a couple of new screws. The engraving is untouched but a bit brown. I found a Frontier pad in the loading room and will fool with that a bit on friend Dean's advice.

[Mills Morrison]

Some before and after pictures would be cool. Something about seeing the results of restoration money that makes it all worth it.

[Bill Murphy]

I have the two barrel CH Grade Bernard gun packed up for the Fall Southern. The 28" barrels now live on the great little DH that John Davis provided me with, so this will be a two gun display. The case will not make the trip since it is in Kevin McCormack's case hospital for the winter. The gun is in unrestored condition with broken straight grip buttstock, but with original skeleton butt. I hope you will enjoy seeing the "Rest of the Story".

[George M. Purtill]

Yahoo

[Mills Morrison]

Look forward to seeing you there and seeing the gun behind the legend.

[Dean Romig]

Bill, I am really looking forward to seeing that gun rejoined with all of its parts.

Someday I hope I will be lucky enough to find the back half of my Bernard set of barrels. If I ever do it will be one sweet reunion for it will be one of those desirable "light upland" twelve gauge, 1-frame beauties with twin ivories atop 26" open and mod barrels.

[Bill Murphy]

Dean, just do what I did. Put "WANTED" ads on internet gun sites, advertise your plight on every forum you choose to join, repeat those advertisements on a quarterly basis, contact every seller of a C Grade Parker asking for their serial number, attend every gun show you can fit into your schedule looking for C Grade Parkers, and in twenty five years, a guy like Jack Cronkhite will give you a piece of information that will lead you to your gun. My two other successful reunions ended the same way, after lots of hard work on my part, but the actual ending in each case was courtesy of a fellow collector who brought the search to a close. By the way, all three of my successful searches involved guns that were high grade factory two barrel sets.

[greg conomos]

I'd enjoy seeing some pics, anyway.

[Bill Murphy]

Maybe a Parker Pages editor will take some pictures at the Fall Southern and post or publish them. It's not a particularly flashy gun, but with 32" and 28" barrels, bored cylinder in both 28" barrels and full in both 32" barrels, straight grip, Bernard Steel, skeleton butt, it matches what may be our modern day dream gun, if we were to order a 12 gauge Parker for $225.00. I have not seen this particular combination before, after examining thousands of Parker orders. My only improvement would be to order a higher grade.

[Dave Suponski]

Bill,I will have a camera with me as I am sure Dean will also. Believe me Bill this gun will not unnoticed....

[George M. Purtill]

A story behind the story is how these high grade factory two barrel sets ever get separated in the first place. I can't imagine forgetting to bring home my barrels.

[Mills Morrison]

This is a very worthy Parker Pages story.

[Dean Romig]

Thanks for the advice Bill.

My barrels are from 118705. I hope to find the rest of this CHE.

Might as well start here.

[George M. Purtill]

Thanks for the advice Bill.

My barrels are from 118705. I hope to find the rest of this CHE.

Might as well start here.

Like i always say- we need match.com for Parker parts.

[Mills Morrison]

Here is a CH with barrels from a different gun. It does not say what the serial number is, but you never know. I have no connection to this gun.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/958210162/Parker_CH_12ga_Re_Stocked_w_Outstanding_Wood.htm



Thanks for the advice Bill.

My barrels are from 118705. I hope to find the rest of this CHE.

Might as well start here.

[Dean Romig]

Thanks Mills, I'll contact the seller.

[Larry Frey]

Dean,
I'll save you some time. Frame #57717, restocked with Trojan barrels.

[edgarspencer]

Dean,
I'll save you some time. Frame #57717, restocked with Trojan barrels.

Butt ugly comes to mind.

oh, the gun. Not you Larry, Not even Dean.

[Mills Morrison]

With the right barrels and appropriate CH grade wood, this one would look much better. What is amazing is somebody spent some time and money making it that ugly.

[Dave Suponski]

What a shame. And one of the first C grade damascus 10 gauge hammerless guns made.

[Bill Murphy]

Be careful of ten gauge hammerless guns that early. Some of the first guns were made for famous shooters, some of them Parker shooters. Any hammerless guns of this serial number range should be lettered to determine the name of the original owner.

[George M. Purtill]

I have seen the GUN and it is gorgeous.
What a great climax to a long hunt.
I hope someone photographed it and will post pictures.

[Richard Flanders]

This gun linked on GA was originally a 10ga? Sure doesn't look like 28" bbls, but the buttstock makes it look pretty out of balance. I see some serious rasp work in that stocks future...

[Mills Morrison]

I have seen the GUN and it is gorgeous.
What a great climax to a long hunt.
I hope someone photographed it and will post pictures.


I saw it too and it sure was beautiful. It was good to see a lot of you in Georgetown and hope to meet the rest of you at a future event

[Tom Carter]

Hi Mills, It was a pleasure meeting you as well. Hope to see you at the Sanford in April. Cheers, Tom

[Mills Morrison]

Tom, You, David and the others involved put on a first class meeting. Julia and I had a great time and we are working on arranging for Sanford.

[Bill Murphy]

Linda and I went around the course with Mills and Julia and had a great time. Yup, Tom and David were great hosts. Thank you for the comments about the old brown CH Bernard gun. I put out a full history of its original owner and seller who were both from nearby Charleston. More than a few read about the gun and the family history of the original owner, and commented on the local connection.

[Dean Romig]

Nuts!! I never saw your gun Bill... Never thought to ask. It's my own fault. I hope to see it sometime in the future.

[Mills Morrison]

You missed one heck of a gun. The engraving was just meticulous . . . and the Bernard barrels and the story behind it . . . .

[Craig Larter]

Bill: Which gun is THE CH???? The straight grip?? Looks awesome---Please bring it to Hausmann's in the Spring. Craig

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8472/8143531225_aba39ff6ab_c.jpg

[Bill Murphy]

Thanks for the pictures, Craig. The top gun, the pistol grip, is DH #74,151 wearing the 28" Bernard barrels and forend. The straight grip gun is the CH # 86,988 wearing the 32" Bernard barrels and forend. The DH will stay in my collection even though I have found the CH back end. Two guns are better than one. Both are #2 frame guns with original skeleton butts. Boths sets of barrels will fit either gun.

[Dave Suponski]

Thanks for the pictures guy's. I missed seeing this great gun also! Drat...

[Jack Cronkhite]

The DH will stay in my collection even though I have found the CH back end. Two guns are better than one.

Very practical philosophy. It then must follow that 3 are better than 2 and 4 better than 3 and 5 better than 4 and so on and so on .......... Where does it end. I may need help.

Cheers,
Jack

[Bill Murphy]

This is a pair of Parkers I can afford. The DH back end was $750, the CH back end was $900, and the barrels were $400. So far, I'm in $2050 for the two guns and have the CH stock to fix or replace. About six feet of copper wire ought to do it.

[Bill Murphy]

Craig, thanks for posting the pictures of the pair of reunited guns. Let's see, since the last newsbreak, I have located the original barrels for the DH grade, courtesy of friend Gary Carmichael, who found them on a gunshow table in North Carolina and brought them home to Virginia. He caught my ad on the missing parts subforum and we reached an agreement. Unfortunately, John Davis long ago used the forearm for #74,151 on his BH project and I will have to find a DH forearm to finish the project. The saga of DH is almost as interesting as the CH. Parts for the DH came from Georgia, Virginia, North Carolina, and ultmately to me in Maryland. Another chapter of the story came recently when Kevin McCormack presented me with the restored original case for the great CH two barrel set. As always, it is a great job with no sign of the restoration visible. The entire leather binding around the lid of the case was broken away and rotted, causing Kevin to have to drill and restitch hundreds of stitches in the new leather. Unfortunately, 2012 wasn't the best year for me and I missed the Northeast and the Fall Southern. I will try to bring this finished pair of reunions to the Northeast Shoot in the spring. If Dave or Dean will take the pertinent pictures, we can throw something together for the next PP. The as yet to be replaced forend for the DH and the restocking of the CH will have to wait a bit. As you can see in the pictures posted a page or two back on this thread, the second forend for the CH fits just fine on the DH and looks like it belongs there. Thanks again to Jack Cronkhite who put this entire project together for me, one hour and forty nine minutes after my last ditch post on page one of this thread.

[Jack Cronkhite]

Thanks again to Jack Cronkhite who put this entire project together for me, one hour and forty nine minutes after my last ditch post on page one of this thread.

Bill: Like many things in life, a bit of bullshit luck helps a lot. Google has changed our lives and the internet gets us in touch with way too many great guns. Can't have 'em all but wouldn't that be nice. I'm very pleased that the reunion of long separated parts came together for you. Cheers, Jack :)

[Dave Noreen]

About six feet of copper wire ought to do it.

At the price of copper these days it might be cheaper to have Craig restock it!!

[Dave Suponski]

Bill, I would be happy assist in any way I can.

[Bill Murphy]

Just to clarify the January 14, 2012 google hit on my serial number, courtesy of Jack Cronkhite, Jack's hit was a very small window of opportunity. Bud Stanley's website chat rolls over on almost a daily basis if it is used and Bud does not allow any rehash of previous chat. Bud doesn't get a lot of activity, so the "86988" post remained active on his site for almost three months, when it would normally rotate out of google range in a day, again, if it is used. Three months before his hit and just a few days later, "86988 parker shotgun" would only appear as posts on Dave Weber's site and the PGCA site. I had been posting mentions of 86988 on gun sites and searchiing on google since before 2006. By January of 2012, I had given up on google and rested my hopes on the PGCA forum. Only Jack took a shot at google after I had tried google for probably six or ten years and failed. I hope this explains what a shot Jack took and succeeded. The PGCA forum takes the credit for reuniting the barrels of my DH #74151, along with Gary Carmichael, but that was a piece of cake compared to Jack's effort. Thanks both of you, and thanks also to John Davis who turned one great original gun into two by selling me the wonderful DH back end that fit my CH barrels with almost no effort. I love these PGCA guys who will send a gun or parts across the country for no payment on the chance that they will fit your gun. Wait until you guys see the next one. Linda and I will see you at the Northeast. Thanks for enjoying this thread so far.

[Mills Morrison]

Bill, That was a great find and IS a great gun. We are still waiting on the Parker Pages story on your adventure with this gun

[Rich Anderson]

At my estate sale, a cased .410 Skeet marked at $7500.00 will sell for $7500.00, no tax, no buyer's premium. Y'all come.

You have my e-mail address and mailing address....NO hurry:)

[Bill Murphy]

You understand, of course, that you have to be here to read the tag attached to the gun.

[Rich Anderson]

Ok, just give me some advance notice so I can put a little gas money away...or we can get a head start and you can just bring it to the Southern or Hausmanns we can avoid the crowds that way:rotf:

[Bill Murphy]

I'm bringing this thread to the top for the reading pleasure of "Dollar", the owner of the recent South Carolina gun show find, another C Grade two barrel set that started life in South Carolina. I just reread the entire thread and punched the "Thanks" button for all posts that were supportive of my efforts. Kevin has finished the case and we will try to get some pictures of the entire outfit. The provenance of the owner and seller of the gun is astounding, including Civil War anecdotes concerning invading Yankees and home invasions, as well as plantation life in post war years.

[charlie cleveland]

bill did you ever find the rest of the gun.. charlie

[Bill Murphy]

Yes, Charlie, the gun is all together in its original Parker Brothers trunk case with both sets of barrels and the back end intact. It was at least a 25 year search, but it is over. The best part is that the DH Grade gun I bought to fit to the barrels on the CH Grade has been reunited with its original barrels also. It is all covered in this "too lengthy" thread. Thank you to all who participated, especially Jack Cronkhite, without whose help this project would not have been possible.

[Bill Murphy]

Gary Carmichael also participated in the reunion by locating the original missing barrels for the DH Grade gun that I had used to put the Charleston gun back in action. Both guns are worth the effort used to put them "together again". Otherwise, a two barrel CH Bernard gun and a DH Damascus gun would be just a jumble of parts separated by hundreds or thousands of miles.

[Larry Mason]

Thanks for re-posting this, Bill. It was just as thrilling as the first time. You would not happen to have the Damascus barrels for a BH 1 1/2 frame, serial number 83030?

Thanks again,
Larry

[Bill Murphy]

Ok, here's the end of the story. Gary Carmichael had the barrels that fit the DH gun that John Davis had the back end for. Gary bought those off of a gun show table in NC. I bought both the back end and the barrels from John, but was short a forend. John had used the Titanic barrels and forend from 74151 to make a two barrel set out of a favorite BH. Fast forward a few years, and John Davis advertised the Titanic barrels for sale on the PGCA forum. I PMed John about the barrels, not knowing they were from my gun #74151. John didn't remember either, or he would have contacted me before putting the barrels up for sale. Fast forward again, I bought the barrels and forend and this morning, located the back end and Damascus barrels for 74151 in my gun room and snapped on John's Titanic barrels and forend. Now, I not only have a two barrel CH (The Charleston Gun), but I have a beautiful two barrel DH with Damascus and Titanic barrels and original forend, although John had renumbered the Titanic barrels and forend to the number of his BH gun. Now I have two great multi barrel sets thanks to four or more of our members, most important, Jack Cronkhite, Kevin McCormack, Gary Carmichael, and John Davis, as well as Paul Ludwig on the West Coast, who had the CH back end, and Bud Stanley, who hooked me up with Paul and the CH.

[Jack Cronkhite]

Great end to the story Bill. Gun now needs a good hunting story to put the icing on the cake. Cheers, Jack

[Bill Murphy]

Jack, the hero of this story, I checked the spelling of your name this time and edited my post to give you proper credit. Thank you so much, my good friend.

[Robin Lewis]

Wow, great to see it all come together! Any idea how or why these "parts" originally went into the wind?

[Bill Murphy]

The CH Bernard gun was separated from its barrels in a house in PA. The back end of the gun went to the West Coast, the barrels, forends and case ended up at the Allentown, PA show where Kevin saw them and told me about them. The DH gun was separated from its barrels, the Damascus barrels ending up at a gun show in NC and the rest of the gun in Georgia. Gary Carmichael bought those Damascus barrels in NC , took them home to Virginia and offered them for sale. I saw the ad, bought them and took them to Maryland. The fluid steel barrels that came from out of the blue ended up with John Davis in Georgia. He would use those and the 74151 forend on his BH two barrel project. Those barrels would have disappeared into gun commerce except that I saw John's ad offering them for sale. When John and I were negotiating, he realized that I owned the back end of the gun that belonged to his barrels and forend. So, like always, I bought them. Now everything is safe at home in Maryland. Two complete two barrel sets reunited. I think I got all this right.

[Jim Thynne]

Wow, and I read the whole thing. This is what we do, and the end result is so very satisfying. I have been so fortunate knowing almost all of the people involved in this mystery. And it has been my pleasure!

[Bill Murphy]

Thanks for the comment, Jim.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Bill, This probably has been said but you my friend need to buy a lottery ticket! Congrats, Gary

[William Woods]

A most interesting, and fascinating story! I read this from start to finish, like the book that you just could not put down!

[Bill Murphy]

This thread is being brought to the top for a poster looking for "buckshot Parker" information, and for Mills Morrison who has expressed information about owning this gun.

[Stan Hillis]

Bill, just found this thread this morning, thanks to you bringing it back up for our mutual friend, Mills.

What a great ending to a great quest. It was just meant to be, it seems. That window of opportunity that you speak of confirms the odds against this happening at all.

Thank you, old friend, for posting it all. I still would like to see pics of the gun in the case. I've never seen an old Parker leather case like the one you describe.

BTW, you and the lovely Linda ready for some more field run peanuts?

SRH

[Mills Morrison]

I remember this thread well. Great story that proves never say never

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Re-read all 17 pages this morning, helluva story. Wonder what kind of odds you would have got on that in Vegas.

[Kevin McCormack]

Waiting for some case glue to dry, I reread all 17 pages myself as well. Still thinking about where the Titanic Steel barrels are for my 26" AH 16 ga. 0 frame Damascus beauty, 88653.......Hmmmmm.

[Rich Anderson]

I need a set of 16ga 0 frame 30 inch Damascus ejector barrels. What's the chances of finding these? Probably slim to none.

[Mills Morrison]

I was told it was going to be next to impossible to find a 0 frame 16 extractor for my project gun, but I did

[charlie cleveland]

did the barrels and stock finally get to gether....charlie

[Bill Murphy]

Yes.

[Dean Romig]

Bill - send me the pictures a d I’ll post them here if you like.





.

[Bill Murphy]

Dean, and other interested parties, I got the repaired stock for the C Grade "Charleston Gun" in the mail today. I am used to $5000 restocks and this was a welcome rest. This stock was a standard "run over by a truck" and more, example. I couldn't be more pleased. The "Charleston Gun" is complete and I am eager to test fire it this weekend, this time without the brass plates taped to the sides of the broken stock. More to come.

[Bill Murphy]

Dean, your offer to post some more pictures of the gun will be accepted soon. Thank you so much.

[Bill Murphy]

Since this saga is drawing to a close, except for the pictures of the finished product, it's time to give thanks to Jack Cronkhite, who was the person who brought the parts of my great gun together. Yes, he was the hero of this project.

[Bill Murphy]

I hope I get this right, so here goes. The set of Titanic barrels that I bought from John Davis were not numbered to #74151, the gun pictured earlier. They were numbered to a gun owned by Noel Money, the father of Nash Buckingham's friend, "The Shootinest Gentleman" and lettered to him. I can't remember which was "Captain Money". I believe the barrels were renumbered at some time. These Parkers sure do get around.

[edgarspencer]

I was told it was going to be next to impossible to find a 0 frame 16 extractor for my project gun, but I did

Mills, go find me another. I need one also.

[William Woods]

I hope I get this right, so here goes. The set of Titanic barrels that I bought from John Davis were not numbered to #74151, the gun pictured earlier. They were numbered to a gun owned by Noel Money, the father of Nash Buckingham's friend, "The Shootinest Gentleman" and lettered to him. I can't remember which was "Captain Money". I believe the barrels were renumbered at some time. These Parkers sure do get around.

Mr. Murph,

I am just finishing "The Best of Nash Buckingham" edited by George "Bird" Evans. Harold Money is referred to as "Captain" as well as his father Captain E. C. Money. Money the elder is referred to as the inventor of smokeless powder in this story.

[John Marscher]

Enjoyed the read. I live on James Island, right down the street from the Hinson house.

[Dave Noreen]

Mr. Murph,

I am just finishing "The Best of Nash Buckingham" edited by George "Bird" Evans. Harold Money is referred to as "Captain" as well as his father Captain E. C. Money. Money the elder is referred to as the inventor of smokeless powder in this story.

A good 50% of what GBE wrote about the Money family in The Best of Nash Buckingham is dead wrong!!


While unpacking my books at our new home, I discovered that in the back of a thin 1941 Scribners edition of De Shootinest Gent’man which contained only that one story, was a second part titled “Recessional.” “Recessional” was a sort of 10-page mini-biography of Harold Money – de shootinest gent’man. In it Nash says he first met Harold at a trap shoot at Fordyce, Arkansas, in 1905 or 6, where Harold ran 150 straight with his Winchester Model 1897. I thought I’d thumb through my bound volumes of The American Field for 1905 and 1906 and find that shoot report.

Well I blew off the better part of a day, and I never found a report from said shoot in Fordyce, Arkansas! I’d think if professional shooter in those days had run 150 straight it would have been reported and appeared in his company’s advertising. However, that little search started an obsession with the Money family that has lasted several years.

From the U.S. Census records I found that Captain Albert W. Money and his family arrived in the U.S. in 1890. Capt. Money and his wife, Emily, had four daughters and two sons, Noel Ernest Money and Harold Bloomfield Money. Albert set up and operated The American E.C. and Schultze Powder Company, with works in Oakland, Bergen County, New Jersey, and offices at 318 Broadway in New York City.

On 7 October 1891, Lieutenant Noel E. Money (Princess Victoria’s Royal Irish Fusiliers), resigned his Commission and subsequently joined his Father’s business in the U.S. Of great interest in my long Money family search was the discovery that Noel E. Money’s shooting journals are preserved in the Rare Books & Special Collections section of the Irving K. Barber Learning Center of the University of British Columbia Library at Vancouver. I visited there in November 2009, and discovered that these volumes were not “just” shooting, but covered his whole life, and what a life it was!

The New York Times for January 24, 1893, reported on the meeting held at Taylor’s Hotel in Jersey City on the 23rd, where The Manufacturers and Dealers’ Inter-State Shooting Association was formed. Noel Money was one of the attendees appointed to the Board of Directors, and also the handicapping committee.

In 1893, the new Interstate Association hosted the first Grand American Handicap, held at Dexter Park, Long Island. Capt. A.W. Money was one of four men tied at 23 birds in that inaugural Grand American Handicap. The shoot-off was quick with R.A. Welch winning the 1893 GAH on the fourth bird. The next year, 1894, again at Dexter Park, Capt. A.W. Money tied with T.W. Morfey both men going 25 straight. T.W. Morfey won the GAH for 1894 on the twelfth round of the shoot-off. A.C. Gould, editor of Shooting and Fishing, induced Capt. A.W. Money to write a series of articles on Pigeon Shooting which Gould published in his paper. Demand for those issues was so great that Albert revised the articles and they were published as the book Pigeon Shooting by Blue Rock.

Noel’s shooting diary shows he went Rail Bird shooting at Salem, New Jersey, on September 1st and 2nd 1893 and shot 140 Rail.
Bill Murphy provided the following information about Noel Money from some Parker Bros. records he has. Noel Money ordered a $400 Whitworth gun on Feb.9, 1895. At the time his address was Oakland, Bergen County, New Jersey. The gun was to have 30" barrels, a slender grip, no safety, 2 3/4" chambers, scroll and flowers, no birds, trigger pulls 3 and 4, must be done by May 1. Serial number is 81122 and DuBray took the order.

119843

The Grand American Handicap for 1895 was held April 3, 4 and 5, at Willard Park, Patterson, New Jersey. Capt. A.W. Money was shooting a Greener weighing 7 ½ pounds with a 40 grain load of his E.C. powder pushing 1 ¼ ounce of #7 shot out of a UMC Trap shell. Noel E. Money was shooting a Parker Bros. gun which also weighed 7 ½ pounds but was using a hot load of 48 grains of E.C. pushing 1 ¼ ounce of #7 out of a UMC Trap shell. Capt. Money shot from the 31 yard line and withdrew after missing his 23rd bird with a score of 20. Noel was shooting from the 28 yard line and scored 23, losing his 10th and 20th birds.

In September 1895, Noel sent 81122 back to Parker Bros. for them to “Make L.H. shoot best can”

In November 1895, Noel visited Nash Buckingham country. His journal shows he shot at Wapannoca, Arkansas, on the 9th and 11th. On the 9th he shot with Neely and Wheatly, and took two Canada Geese and 104 ducks. On the 11th he shot with Dr. Maddeu, and took 110 ducks.

The Grand American Handicap of 1896 was held March 24, 25 and 26, at Elkwood Park, near Long Beach, New Jersey, and with 109 entrants was the biggest Pigeon shoot up to that time. But, it was not a good year for the Moneys. Capt. Money shooting from the 29 yard line, killed four, missed three and withdrew. Noel E. Money shooting from the 28 yard line, killed two, missed three and withdrew, as did Annie Oakley from the 27 yard line. Capt. Money was still shooting a Greener and Noel a Parker, but they had gone to a faster load of 1 1/8 ounce of #7 pushed by 50 grains of E.C.

Again for 1897, the Grand American Handicap was held March 23, 24 and 25, at Elkwood Park, near Long Beach, New Jersey, and this year with 146 entrants was again the biggest Pigeon shoot up to that time. Capt. Money, still shooting his Greener from the 28 yard line shot at eighteen birds, killing fifteen and withdrew. Noel, now shooting a Smith from the 29 yard line finished out of the money with a 21.

119844

From the entries in Noel’s diaries, it appears to me that he never returned to his Father’s business, or if he did, it was a very brief return. The journals show him on a hunting trip in the Atlas Mountains in North Africa, and then on a Bear hunting trip in Siberia. The bridge across the Ural River was just completed in 1898 and the Trans-Siberian Railroad reached Irkutsk that year. So Noel and his cronies took the train out to look for the great Russian Bears.

The Grand American Handicap of 1898 was held March 22, 23 and 24, at Elkwood Park, near Long Beach, New Jersey, and with 207 entered of which 197 appeared, was again the biggest Pigeon shoot up to that time. The only Money I find shooting the GAH was Capt. Money shooting a Greener weighing in at 7 pounds 15 ounces and using 1 ¼ ounce of #7 shot pushed by 52 grains of either E.C. or Schultze out of either Winchester Leader or UMC Trap hulls. The Captain killed 24 Pigeons, missing his tenth bird.

From the November 26, 1898, Sporting Life, “Harold Money, son of Capt. A.W. Money, of the American E.C. and Schultze Powder Co., killed 25 live birds straight in a sweep, at Singac, NJ, on Nov. 16, taking first money alone. John L. Brewer and Captain Money were in second place with 24 each.” And, from the same issue “Noel E. Money, late secretary of the American E.C. and Schultze Powder Company, is expected to visit this country shortly. He is on a business trip which will take him to California. His stay in this country will be a short one, but his many friends hope he will have time to give them a handshake before he returns to Europe.”

The 1899 Grand American Handicap was held April 10, 11, and 12 was again at Elkwood Park. The GAH continued to grow with 278 entries and 262 shooters actually starting. Harold shooting a Parker Gun from the 28 yard line, and using shells loaded with 52 grains of E.C. and 1 1/8 ounce of #7, killed all 25 of his birds, but the fourth one fell dead out of bounds, so his score was 24. Captain A.W. Money using his Greener and 50 grains of E.C. killed 21.

On April 29 and May 1, 1899, the prestigious Philadelphia Gun Club held an invitational shoot for members of the Riverton, Carteret, Westminster, Kennel, West Chester and Herron Hill Clubs. Harold and Capt. A.W. Money cleaned up. Harold Money, shooting a Parker gun and using 52 grains of E.C. and Schultze pushing 1 1/8 ounce of #7 shot out of a UMC Trap shell, won the 50-bird race with a 49. Capt A.W. Money, shooting his Greener with the same load took second with a 47.

On July 14, 1899, Harold Money and Aaron Doty shot a 100-bird race at the Lyndhurst, N.J. grounds. They both killed 95 birds and agreed to the tie with no shoot-off.

At the Ocean City, Maryland, Mid-Summer Tournament, in late July 1899, I find both of my subjects of interest shooting well – Harold B. Money and Ansley H. Fox.

In the January 13, 1900, issue of The American Field, I found the following note – “It is rumored that Captain A.W. Money of Oakland, N.J., is prepared to back his son Harold to the extent of $1,000 in a 100-live-bird race with that veteran trap shot George S. McAlpin. Young Money is a good shot, but Mr. McAlpin’s great experience and good work at the traps should count for a great deal in an individual match with any man.” So far I haven’t found anything more about such a match.

Also in that issue was the shoot report for the New Years Day shoot at the Carteret Gun Club. For the New Years Day Cup a miss and out, Captain Money shooting from 30-yards got 2 before he missed. Eleven took the cup. For the January Handicap Cup, also a miss and out event, Captain Money shooting from 30-yards missed his first bird. Harold shooting from 31-yards went 14 before he missed. Twenty-one took that event.

The January 20, 1900, issue of The American Field, carried the two notes about Harold. First – “Mr. Harold Money has severed his connection with the American E.C. and Schultze Powder Company, and left New York last week for a distant business trip. During his residence in the vicinity of the metropolis he made hosts of friends, to whom he endeared himself by his many lovable qualities of heart and temperament. As a shooter, Harold young as he is, stands in the front rank, with few equals and no superiors. His recent records at the traps class him in the highest grade of experts; he is cool, quick and accurate in his work under the most difficult conditions and against men tried and seasoned in the furnace of competition. The American Field joins the army of his friends in wishing for him abundant success in his new venture.
Second – “The American Field had a very pleasant call last week Friday afternoon from Mr. Harold Money, recently of the E.C. and Schultze Powder Company of Oakland, N.J. Mr. Money was on his way to Nebraska whither he goes on business for an indefinite period. He is a very brilliant young trap shot and his Chicago friends regretted very much that he could not remain in the city long enough to try his hand on some of Uncle John Watson’s good birds. However, he may return from the Northwest before the end of the winter months, and if he does he will try and make it a point to stop in Chicago a few days and do a little shooting.”

Those wild and crazy Moneys seemed to be getting press in every issue! The January 27, 1900, issue of The American Field carried – “Noel Money, eldest son of Captain A.W. Money, of the E.C. and Schultze Powder Company, a gentleman quite well known on this side of the Atlantic, as he spent some years here and was quite a good trap shot, has secured a commission in the Imperial Yeomanry of Great Britain, and has started with his troop to South Africa to fight the Boers. The Imperial Yeomanry is 1500 strong, and is a body of men somewhat similar to the Rough Riders in the Cuban campaign. The men are all gentleman farmers, who are accustomed to riding after hounds across country, and are members of various hunt clubs. Their ability to handle firearms has also been considered, and all in all, it is expected to prove the crack light cavalry troop of the campaign. The officers and many of the men have furnished their own equipment. The Prince of Wales has been elected Honorary Colonel of the troop.”

At the Carteret’s Annual Championship of 1900, a 100 bird race, held on 21 – 22 February, Captain A.W. Money scored an 82, third from the bottom, while the event was taken by C.A. Painter of Pittsburgh with a 94.

I haven’t yet figured out what Harold was up to in Nebraska. But, in the records for the 1900 Grand American Handicap at Live-Birds, held April 2nd to 6th, the only Money I find is Capt. A. Money of Oakland, N.J. who got 23 from the 28-yard line. He shot a Parker weighing 8 pounds even, using Winchester and UMC shells with 48 grains of E.C. and only 1 1/8 ounces of #7. G.S. McAlpin of New York City got 22 birds from the 30-yard line. He used a Daly weighing 7 pounds 13 ounces with Leader shells with 44 grains of DuPont and 1¼ ounces #7. By the way, Annie Oakley used a Richards in the 1900 GAH and got 22 from the 26-yard line. Annie also used only 1 1/8 ounces of shot.

The first Grand American Target Handicap was held in June 12-15, 1900. Captain A.W. Money was there. On Tuesday there were five 15-target and five 20-target events, for a total of 175 targets. Captain A.W. Money was 33 targets off the leader, Heikes, with a score of only 134. On Wednesday, Captain Money got 72 out of 85 in the open events, and 82 out of 100 in the Preliminary Handicap. In the Grand American Target Handicap, on Thursday, Captain Money only scored 66 out of 100 shooting from the 17-yard line. In Friday’s open events he scored 62 out of 85, and in the Consolation Handicap, shooting from the 16-yard line, he only got 67 out of 100. Maybe his gun was choked too tight for that short yardage. On Saturday there was a 25-bird live-bird event, and Captain Money scored 24 from the 30-yard line. In the report of the Grand American Target Handicap, published in The Sportsmen’s Review for June 23, 1900, the report of the award ceremony included the following – “At the conclusion, Capt. A.W. Money, in a brief speech, called attention to the man who has done more for the interests of trap-shooting in this country than any other—also had given to the shooters the magnificent Interstate Park—a shooting park without peer in the whole world—Captain J.A.H. Dressel—and called for three cheers for him, and they were most enthusiastically given. Captain (but now unanimously advanced to the rank of General) Dressel replied briefly, thanking the shooters for their appreciation of his efforts, stating that he was more of a worker then a talker. ….. At a little informal supper that evening, numerous felicitous speeches were made and toasts were drank—one of the most interesting being the one to Noel E. Money, who while in this country, endeared himself to hundreds of the shooters, but who at present is fighting his country’s battles in South Africa. That he might know he was not forgotten by his friends on this side, the following cablegram was sent to him:

Interstate Park, New York, June 14, 1900.
Lieut. Noel Money, Shropshire Yeomanry, Field Force, South Africa:
Greetings: Now at First Grand American Handicap Target Tournament. Heikes winner.
Toast to you. God bless you.
Wadsworth, Norton,
Heikes, Marlin,
Hobart, Packard,
Thomas, Capt. Money,
Sanders, Dressel,
Waters, George,
Pride, Hallowell.”


The U.S. Census for 1900, for Franklin Township, Bergen County, New Jersey, taken on the 19th day of June 1900, showed Albert W. Money, being 61 years old and his occupation being “Manfg Powder.” Albert was listed as being born in May 1839, in England, of parents both born in England. Albert and his wife Emily L. Money, 55, born Feb. 1845, had been married 30 years and had six children, all still living. Emily was listed as having been born in English Canada of parents both born in England. Only one child was enumerated at home, Ethel A. Money, 22, born Apr. 1878. All three were listed as having arrived in the U.S. in 1890, and having lived here ten years. They apparently were still citizens of Great Britain, as the entry under the Naturalization column was “no.” I haven’t found Harold Money in the 1900 Census, but single people often were not indexed.

The American Field, November 24, 1900 – “Captain A.W. Money returned last week from a business trip to England. He looked in splendid condition and his health is much improved by the voyage across the water. He was accompanied by Mr. Walter F. Smith.”

On December 8, 1900, the Moneys got hot at the Carteret Gun Club. Event No. 1 -- 5-birds miss-and-out, McAlpin from 30 yards, Captain Money, Postans and Emerson all from 29 yards went five straight. In the shoot-off McAlpin, Postans and Captain Money all got 4 while Emmerson scored 3. Event No. 2 – miss and out, Postans, McAlpin and Captain Money all scored 6, while Harold missed his first bird. Event No. 3 – Allowance Handicap 10 birds – Harold Money from 31 yards and Hutchings from 26 yards both got all ten birds. McAlpin withdrew after nine when he was one down. Harold won the shoot-off with another 10 to Hutchings 9. Event No. 4 – The Oakleigh Thorne Cup, which was previously held by George S. McAlpin, handicap, 10 pigeons, trophy to become the property of the member winning it three times. Harold Money scored a clean ten. McAlpin (31), Captain Money (30), Bradley (31), Postans (31) and Dutcher (27) all scored 9. In the shoot-off for 2nd money McAlpin, Bradley and Postans each got 5, while Captain Money and Dutcher each scored 1. Event No. 5 -- a miss and out with McAlpin, Bradley, Harold Money, Captain Money, and Postans all scoring 5. Event No. 6 – miss and out McAlpin, Harold Money and Gilbert each scoring 6.

On December 15, 1900, there was another shoot at the Carteret Gun Club. Event No. 3 – Allowance Handicap 10 birds – Harold Money from 31 yards, H.J. Daniels from 31 yards, and C.S. Gutherie from 30 yards all scored 9. In the shoot-off for the cup, Harold Money scored 1, while Daniels and Gutherie each missed their first bird. Event No. 4 – Cup contest, 10 pigeons, 30-yard rise – Harold Money, Captain Money, Gutherie and Danials all scored 9. In the miss and out shoot-off Gutherie scored 4, Harold Money 3, Captain Money 1, and Daniels 0.

On December 20, 1900, Harold Money, of Oakland, N.J., and Robert A. Welch, of New York, shot a 100-bird race on the grounds of the Carteret Gun Club at Garden City, L.I. The result was a tie of 89s and it was said another match would likely be arranged.

Albert Money apparently wrote a letter to the committee complaining about the chief handicapper at Carteret trying to oust him and his family as pros.* That brought the chief handicapper, George S. McAlpin,*to Money's office at 318 Broadway in New York City, on 28 December 1900.* The meeting apparently didn't go well and McAlpin slugged the 61 year old Capt. Money and broke the malar bone on the left side of Money's face.

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On December 29, 1900, at the Carteret Gun Club, Harold Money, shooting from the 31-yard line, was one of five shooters to get 14 out of 15 live-birds in the George A. Barker prize event. The prize was a Jules Jurgensen stop watch, of the highest value, with a heavy gold chain, locket, and cigar cutter, one of the best trophies ever given to the members for competition. The shoot-off was miss and out, won by Duryea on the 18th bird. Harold was out after 12.

On January 2, 1901, four shooters – R.J. Daniels, Harold Money, S.M. VanAllen and J.S. Fanning – were in a shoot-off for the previous Interstate Park Handicap series. The event was 25 live-birds from 30-yard rise. Daniels and Fanning both ran 24, while Harold withdrew after his second loss when he had 19 out of 21. Van Allen withdrew when he had 12 out of 14. On the same day, the third contest of the second series renewal of the Interstate Park Handicap was then held, and Harold ran a clean 25 from the 30-yard rise.

On January 4, 1901, George S. McAlpin, with his counsel, surrendered himself at the Centre Street Court.

In the January 19, 1901, issue of The Sportsmen’s Review, was an article about the recent action of the executive committee of the Carteret Gun Club, seeking a resolution to have any member who competes with professional shooters resign. “Captain A.W. Money and his son, Harold, would come under the ban, as would Louis Duryea, Daniel I. Bradley, Robert A. Welch, and a few others…”

The American Field, January 26, 1901 – “Captain Money, though but partially recovered from the assault inflicted on him while in his private office by George W.(sic) McAlpin a month ago, is progressing as well as the serious nature of his wound will allow. The malar bone on the left side of his face was fractured and causes him considerable pain and inconvenience as it slowly knits.”

February 21 and 22, 1901, were the dates of the Carteret Annual Championship. The event was a 100-bird race. Strong winds from directly behind the shooters and occasional flurries on the first day made for rather low scores. Harold Money won it by one bird with a score of 88 to take the trophy cup and $680. George McAlpin retired after the 75th bird with a score of 62, as did Captain Money with only 57. McAlpin had won this event in 1899 with a 96.

Philadelphia’s Riverton Gun Club’s eighth annual tournament was held March 23, 1901, at the grounds at Taylor’s Station, N.J. As at Carteret last month, Harold Money (30) proved himself the champion, losing only two birds for a 98, winning the amateur trophy and $760. Second was Daniel I. Bradley (30) with a 95 getting $475, and third was R.L. Pierce (28) with a 93 getting $285. Captain Money (29), F.C. Butler (28), and Dr. Wilson (30) all with 92s cut up the fourth place money of $190.

At the 1901 Grand American Handicap at Live-Birds, held April 1 to 6, 1901, both Captain A.W. Money and H.B. Money are listed as being from Oakland, N.J., and both shot Parker guns. A.W. scored 24 in the GAH, and Harold Money scored 23, missing his last bird.
The New Jersey State Tournament was held May 7 to 10, 1901, at Smith Brother’s grounds at the foot of Foundry Street, Newark. Captain Money participated, but I don’t see Harold listed among the shooters.

On May 14 to 17, 1901, the Pennsylvania State Tournament was held at Allentown. Harold Money was there, competing in the open events.

At the 1902 Grand American Handicap at Live-Birds both Captain A.W. Money and H.B. Money are listed as being from Oakland, N.J., and while the Captain still shot a Parker that had lost an ounce since 1900, Harold was now shooting his “famous” Winchester which also weighed 7 pounds 15 ounces. A.W. using Leader-Magic shells with 3 ½ Schultze EC and 1 1/8 ounce 7 ½ scored 23 in the GAH. Harold shooting Leader 3 ½ EC DuPont and 1 ¼ ounce of 7 missed three out of the first eight and withdrew. Earlier Harold went 11 of 12 in the Kansas City Sweepstakes, and in the Nitro Powder Handicap he was one of 80 shooters to go 12 straight.

During the Boer War Noel Ernest Money advanced to the rank of Major in the Shropshire Yeomanry. Noel’s captain, Gordon Wood, was wounded and Noel was given temporary command. Noel was subsequently promoted to Captain and given permanent command. Noel returned to England and on November 25th, 1903 married Maud Wood.

The November 14, 1903, issue of The American Field carried the following note –
“The many friends of Harold Money, the well-known representative of the Winchester Repeating Arms Co., who was very ill at Kansas City, Mo., last April, when the Grand American Handicap at targets was held in that city, will be rejoiced to learn that he has fully recovered his health and is again shooting a great clip on inanimate targets. He recently shot at 60 and scored them all; then at 75 and scored 74, and then shot at 135 and made one straight run of 111. Mr. Money is at present at Colorado Springs, whither he went as soon as he was able to leave his room at Kansas City and where he has built up his strength. It is more than likely that he will remain in Colorado during the coming winter as the climate there is better for him than on the Atlantic coast.”

Advertising for The American “E.C.” and Schultze Gunpowder Company, Ltd. was regularly found in The American Field through the February, 13, 1904, issue. Beginning in the April 2, 1904, issue of The American Field, “New E.C.” and “Schultze” celebrated Bulk Powders were being advertised as products of Laflin & Rand Powder Co. Through the end of 1906 L & R advertised “New E.C. (Improved)” and “New Schultze” bulk powders in addition to their “Infallible Smokeless” dense powder. Beginning in mid-February 1907, “New E.C. (Improved)” and “New Schultze” bulk powders, and “Infallible Smokeless” dense powder were being advertised as products of E.I. du Pont de Nemours Powder Company, Wilmington, Del.

Being out of the gunpowder business gave Capt. Money time to write the section on “The Shotgun and its Handling”, for the book Guns, Ammunition & Tackle by A.W. Money and others for the American Sportsman’s Library. It does appear that he continued to work a bit on some basis for Laflin & Rand.

April 6 and 7, 1904, found Harold shooting in the Interstate Tournament at Bristol, Tennessee. W.R. Crosby was high gun the first day with 195 out of 200. H.B. Money, A.M. Hatcher, and R.L. Peirce were in second place with 193s. The second day with more favorable conditions found W.R. Crosby again high gun with a remarkable 198. R.L. Peirce was second with a 193, and A.M. Hatcher was third with a 191. Harold had a 190.

The Paducah Gun Club’s annual spring tournament was held April 19, 20 and 21, 1904, in the worst weather ever seen in Paducah – for April. The first day Harold Money and Spencer tied for high gun with 237 out of 250. In the shoot-off on the last day of the tournament Harold won it with a 97 out of 100 to Spencer’s 94. The second day was two live bird events, ten-birds each. Harold got nine in the first event, losing to W.P. Kennedy, secretary of the club, who scored 10. Harold won the second event, shot in a snowstorm with a clean ten. The third day was two more live bird events. In the second event, which was 25 birds, Harold was in a four-way tie of 24s.

May 4 and 5, 1904, found Harold shooting in the Interstate Association’s tournament at Nashville, Tennessee. The first day’s event, 175 targets, was taken by Harry Kirby with a 165. Second was Charlie Spencer with 164, and third Harold Money with a 163. The second day, also 175 targets, found Spencer losing 7, while Harold Money was second losing 9. High overall was Spencer with 332, with Harold and Fletcher tied with 329.

The Interstate Association tournament was held at Warm Springs, Georgia, on June 14, 15, and 16, 1904. Days 1 and 2 were each 200 targets. Harold got 192 the first day and 186 the second day for a 378.

The 1904 Grand American Handicap was held June 21 to 24. The first day’s event was a 200-target race. The top scores were 197 by J.A.R. Elliot and J.L.D. Morrison, while Harold Money shot a 194. The Preliminary Handicap on Wednesday was 100 targets. T.H. Clay from 16 yards and L.A. Cummings from 18 yards tied at 98. In the 20 target shoot-off Clay was the winner. Harold shooting from the 20-yard line got 89. In the GAH on Thursday, R.D. Guptill from the 19-yard line and W.M. Randall from the 17-yard line tied at 96. The 1904 GAH was won by Guptill, of Aiken, Minnesota, in the shoot-off. Harold Money shooting from the 20-yard line got 90. The Consolation Handicap, on the final day, was won by Remington’s pro William Heer with a score of 98 from the 20-yard line; and Hunter Arms pro, Harvey McMurchy, shooting from the 19-yard line was second with a 97. Harold by then had moved up to the 19-yard line and still only got 85. The winner of the Preliminary Handicap, L.A. Cummings; the winner of the Grand American Handicap, R.D. Guptill; and the winner of the high general average, J.L.D. Morrison; all used Winchester Model 1897s. The only event won with a double was the Consolation Handicap won by William Heer with his Remington Model 1894. Cummings used Winchester Leader shells, while the other three used UMC Arrow shells.

July 19 to 22, 1904 was the Cincinnati Gun Club’s Tournament. In the first days shooting at 180 targets, in extremely hot weather with no wind, E. O’Brien scored 161 from the 18-yard line, while Harold Money from the 20-yard line and Scott from the 17-yards line tied for second with 160s. The second day’s shooting included a 50-target event and a 185-target event. The first event was won with a 49 while Harold shot 47. The second was won with 171, and Harold was third with 167. The Grand International Handicap on Thursday brought some relief from the heat. In that 100-target event, two shooters went 93 from 16- and 20-yards. Two shooters went 92 from 17- and 18-yards. Harold was one of five shooters who got 91. Other events that day amounted to 175 targets of which Harold broke 156. Harold was consistent enough to carry the high total for the three days shooting of 483.

The final Interstate Association shoot for 1904 was at Concordia, Kansas, September 28 and 29. Weather again was quite a factor with gale winds and rain the first day. Professionals William Heer and C.G. Spencer lead the pack with 185s out of 200. Mr. Marshall was second with 180, and Harold Money posted a 179 for third. The high amateur was George Maxwell with a 181. For the second day Heer was again the high man with 195 out of 200. Spencer was second with a 191, and Marshall was third with a 189. Harold Money posted a 183. Ed Arnold was the high amateur with a 189, and second was E.L. Wetzig with a 184.

In 1905 Harold continued as a professional shooter for Winchester and at the Grand American Handicap he finished way off the pace with 84 out of 100. The money winners were R.R. Barber who won $319.50 for his lone 99; four shooters with 98s got $239.60 each; seven shooters with 97s got $91.30 each; 21 96s got $35.10 each, 14 95s got $31.95 each; and 26 94s got $3.80 each.

The next big shoot was at Kansas City, 200 targets per day for three days. Harold’s scores were – 180, 187, and 176. Day one was taken by William Yeach with a score of 192, and the high professional was Fred Gilbert with a 191. Day two was taken by William Yeach again but with a score of 183, while the professionals got hot with Remington’s shooter W.H. Heer going 193, Fred Gilbert again going 191, and R.O. Heikes in a tie with Harold at 187. Day three was taken by Ed O’Brien with a 181, while among the professionals J.S. Fanning was high with a 187, Fred Gilbert second with a 186, and W.H. Heer third with a 184.

On August 29, 30 and 31, 1905, the second biggest shoot of the year was at Colorado Springs, Colorado. Day one Harold Money shot 189 out of 200, while high score for the day was W.R. Crosby with a 193. Day two Harold Money again shot 189 out of 200, while high score for the day was C.M. Powers with a 194 and W.R. Crosby again shot a 193. For day three Harold shot 92 out of 100, while high score was C.M. Powers and Cal Callison both with a 97.

It appears Harold may have been running with the big dogs in 1905, but he wasn’t near the head of the pack. A listing of those shooters who carried a 90% or better average on at least 3000 targets showed Fred Gilbert leading with .956 on 17,065 targets and W.R. Crosby close on his heels with .955 on 16,415. Money was in 38th place with .905 on 11,580 targets

In 1906 Harold did the great bulk of his shooting in Texas, though he did make it up to Indianapolis for the Grand American Handicap. He was way off the pace and finished with 84 out of 100 from the 19-yard line. Even worse was Capt. A.W. Money (Blue Rock) who shot 74! For 1906 however, F.E. Rogers won the GAH with a 94 from the 17-yard line. Remington’s shooter W.H. Heer carried the high average for 1906 with .963 on 14,055 targets, using two straight-gripped Remington Model 1894s, while Harold shucking the Model 1897 Winchester got .928 on 5765 targets.

Well, I finally found what must be the shoot Nash remembered! On April 17 and 18, 1907, Harold shot a tournament reported from Camden, Arkansas, which looks in my Rand McNally to be 33 miles southwest of Fordyce. Nash coming down from Memphis may have passed through Fordyce on the way. Harold led the tournament with 194 out of 200 the first day and 192 out of 200 the second. He also had a run of 128 straight. This is the only shoot in Arkansas I have found Harold reported shooting in. I found his complete records for 1904, 1905, 1906, 1907 and 1908.

At the 1907 Southern Handicap held at Richmond’s Deep Run Hunt Club, Harold got 76 out of 100 in the Preliminary and 86 out of 100 in the Southern Handicap. Winning scores were 94 in the preliminary by E.H. Storr, and 92 in the Southern by G.S. McCarty and H.E. Buckwalter. McCarty and Buckwalter tied at 18 out of 20 in the first shoot off and went to a second where Buckwalter again got 18, but McCarty went straight. W.R. Crosby also shot a 92 but being a paid pro wasn’t in it for the prize.

The GAH was held at Chicago from June 18 to 22, 1907. The opening day was a 16-yard event and Harold posted a 95. On day two in the preliminary Handicap, shooting from 19-yards Harold broke 89. Harold shot an 86 from the 18-yard line in the Grand itself, while the likes of Crosby, Gilbert and Heer were shooting from 21 yards. On the final day the Professional Championship was shot at 200 targets. Harold posted a 180 while the event was won by Crosby with a 192.

Harold shot at 10760 targets in 1907 and posted an average of .939. Harold finished 1908 with an average of .9220 on 7770, putting him in 20th place for that year. In 1909 Harold moved up to 17th place among the professionals with an average of .9361 on 7920 targets.

Harold again shot in a two day shoot at Camden, Arkansas, on May 11 and 12, 1910. The reporter stated in a great sentence “Harold Money got away to a bad start the first day, losing five out of the second event, which virtually put him out of the race, but he kept breaking them in such a manner that he was in the running until the second to the last event on the second day when he again dropped five, and, of course, that was too “many.””

The last shoot report I’ve found for Harold was for the May 24 and 25, 1910, shoot at the Calcasieu Gun Club, at Lake Charles, LA.

Sporting Life for May 18, 1912, published the following note “According to a letter which Ed Banks recently received from Captain Money, who is living in England, the veteran is thoroughly enjoying life. Harold Money is in charge of a rubber plantation in Ceylon, while Noel Money is living in Herefordshire, in England, and shooting considerably.”

From his marriage to Maud in 1903 through 1912 Noel Money was land agent for his father-in-law, Capt. Charles Wood’s estates. Noel and Maud had a daughter Mary and a son Gordon. In 1913 Noel and his family moved from England to Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada, where he was involved in the construction of the Qualicum Beach Hotel and Golf Course. By August 1915 he was called to again serve the Empire.

Another letter to Ed Banks from Harold Money was published in Sporting Life for June 22, 1916.

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For Noel, “the front” Harold mentions was North Africa and Palestine. During WW-I Noel was with the 159th Infantry Brigade, 53rd Welsh Division. He was a Major when they were in Libya and a Colonel by the time they were in Egypt. By the time they advanced into Palestine with General Allenby, Noel was a Brigadier General commanding the 159th. After the Great War, Noel returned to his family at Qualicum Beach.

Harold Money returned to the U.S. in the 1920s. Harold worked at A&F in New York beginning about 1926. The U.S. Census for 1930 shows Harold Money living as a boarder in White Plains, Westchester County, New York. The Census listed Harold as being 53 years old, and a salesman. Harold eventually married the widow of his wealthy friend Douglas Franchot, and retired to a home on the Severn River near Annapolis. A couple years later Harold contracted pneumonia at their summer place in the Adirondacks and passed on.

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[William Woods]

You are indeed the "Researcher" sir.

Thank you for the post.

[Kevin McCormack]

(WHEW!!!)

[Dan Steingraber]

I have a CH 12 gauge from John Davis ordered by Noel Money, Colonel Money's son. He ordered identical guns for he and his father that were identical in specs to a gun another member of their club had. I also have a shell loaded by Colonel Money for a two man challenge pigeon shoot. 100 birds and the stake was $1,000 per man. https://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=36597#:~:text=in%201%2C143%20Post s-,Parker%2012%20Gauge%20CH%20with%20Provenance,-For%20Sale%3A%20Parker

[Dave Noreen]

A couple of magazine editors I showed my findings to said I had a lot of information but no "story."

[Dean Romig]

There’s plenty of ‘story’ to what tou’ve found!





.

[Mills Morrison]

What they probably really meant was you had no new product to advertise which is what we see too much of these days

[William Woods]

A couple of magazine editors I showed my findings to said I had a lot of information but no "story."

I beg to differ with those opinions' sir. I was going to ask you, after your post, when the book would be published.

[Bill Murphy]

Thank you, Dave, for this great saga of the Moneys. This information is not available anywhere else except in tidbits.

[Mike Koneski]

Dave, how much coffee did you need to do all that research and then type up the "article"??? :shock: