CHE found

[Ray Masciarella]

Lords knows I need another shotgun like I need another hole in my head but here goes. I found a CHE at, of all places, Gander MT in West Palm Bch. It will take them a month of Sundays to sell it as The first thing the salesman tells you is that it can't be shot!!!

Anyway, its SN159917. 32" damascus barrels with at least 80-85 % pattern. Ejectors. Very little CCH but sharp/very nice engaving. Straight grip. Nice fgure and checking. Only downside is stock pinned. Good job but very obvious. Really nice unmolested gun.

What do you C grades colectors think its worth? If anyone is interested, let me know cause I hope I don't buy it!!! I'll give you contact info.

Thx, Ray

[Rich Anderson]

What are they asking for it? Is there any way to get pictures? I would want to check the wall thickness of the bbls befor purchase.

[Ray Masciarella]

Can get photos if your interested. Would have to stop by or maybe I could get them to send to you. Price $3500. Right on the trickness. Tx, Ray

[Ray Masciarella]

Ok, so I went back and had the manger pull it out of the case so I could get a good look since some of you may be interested. My earlier description is modified as follows. Has twin ivory beads. Barrels not pitted. Couldn't measure thickness. Stock repair good. Checking worn more then I thought but ok. Period Redhead pad. No CCH except under forend. Engraving worn on floorplate (which I couldn't see when it was in the case).

Nice gun to go shooting. I don't know what it is worth.

Thx, Ray

[Robert Delk]

Sounds like a steal at that price,if sound.

[Ray Masciarella]

You know, I think it could be. They just have no gumsmith on site to measure barrel thickiness. I know it could be bought for less then asking price, which is already a pretty good deal. It is a nice gun to go shooting with.

[charlie cleveland]

somebody better grab this gun...this is about the price of a d grade....id love to own it just aint got the cash rite now or this gunwould be in miss. instead of florida.... charlie

[Rich Anderson]

If the mgr thinks its unsafe to shoot I'm curious as to how he determined the asking price.

[Rick Losey]

If the mgr thinks its unsafe to shoot I'm curious as to how he determined the asking price.

I would bet the "unsafe" = damascus

as for the price - unless they have changed the way they do it, it's a formula based on what they paid for it, which was based on a trader's guide.

[Ed Blake]

Daggone. A CHE in that configuration for three point five thousand dollars? Obviously you would be doing the seller a favor by taking it off his hands. Run don't walk and buy it.

[Ray Masciarella]

Manager says it can't be shot cause of Damascus. I tried to explain to him that it could but he thought I was nuts. I might go buy it today but don't need another Parker. If anybody wants it let me know and I'll go get it. Ray

[Richard Flanders]

I'm pretty sure that if you just go buy it someone here will mercifully put you out or your misery and take it off your hands....!

And you better hustle before the dealer smartens up...

And 32" bbls?! Straight grip?! Could be this gun is worth more than 3.5K parted out....

[Mark Ouellette]

I am so tempted to call that store and buy.

I must resist temptation, I must resist temptation...

[Richard Flanders]

OOhhhh! Silence... lovely silence! I hear in the background the crackling of ozone in the air from frantic PM's flying, and the sound of phones melting down from ringing non stop! So, let us know who ends up with it, eh? Time to go plow some snow here; the sunlight is just peeking over the horizon...

[Jack Cronkhite]

Checked their website HERE (http://search.gandermountain.com/usedfirearms/?Ne=1000002&N=1919+4294966564) You can get a nice VH 28 ga for 18,999. 14 Parkers shown. No CHE, so either not photographed and listed on the site or it's gone already. Suspect the "sounds of silence" will soon be over.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Better go buy that gun! or some good friend will do it for you . Not me, ain't got hammers.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I'd guarantee you that gun was sold within the first couple hours after the first posting about it and we'll never hear who bought it. It wasn't me.

DLH

[Ray Masciarella]

Ok, I'll just go buy the rascal. The asst mgr has it on hold for me pending approval of my offer. They will never sell it. You can barely buy a 870 at this store. Tho, they do have several old Parkers. Two DHE 20 ga straight grips both horribly refinished for 12k and 18k. They are nothing but shooters at this point. I wonder how they ended up with them since they really don't even have a decent selection of modern shotguns (they sell mostly handguns).

Anyway, I'll have it in my safe tonight and figure it out later. I don't collect CH's and I don't know much about straight grips, 32" barrels, etc. Why would something order these features?

Thx, Ray

[Jack Cronkhite]

You should get a good seniors discount for an "unshootable" gun like that.

[Richard Flanders]

That's the spirit Ray!! I've had time to plow my pad and driveway, go sweep the planes and pick up my mail, and make a pot of tea and you don't own the gun yet??? Good thing you have it on hold! The seller has likely changed his phone number by now; got tired of answering it every 15 seconds...

[Rick Losey]

Manager says it can't be shot cause of Damascus. I tried to explain to him that it could but he thought I was nuts.

As W C Fields once said "Never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump"

I one tried to explain a shotgun identification mistake to a Gander manager, he woudn't listen so I ended buying a high grade prewar Sauer for a pittance. Since I tried to be honest and he wouldn't listen, I left with a heck of a deal and a clean conscience.

[Ray Masciarella]

Ut oh

[Ray Masciarella]

Ok, went back. Mgr wanted to know what I did. He had over a dozen calls and two backups! I told him about my post and I think he's going to join to sell the rest of them!

Anyway, all the stir blew any chance he'd take my discounted offer (which the asst did pending mgr approval) but it's in my safe. I obviously don't know a good thing when I see it but I don't collect CH's except for one with Bernard barrels because I thought they were cool.

I'm embarrassed to tell you that I don't understand why this gun is so interesting.Is it the straight stock, twin ivory beads and 32" barrels? The price? Was it ordered by Elvis or something? (haha). Can someone tell me?

Anyway, I don't think I'll keep it since I obviously don't appreciate something good when I see it. Once I understand what I just did I'll first contact those who have sent PMs telling me of their interest if I didn't buy it. In fact those fellas can call me if they'd like to tell me about it. (and don't bother leaving a message with my boys or lovely wife cause I'll never get it-just call back). 5618326645.

In the meantime, I'm going duck hunting. They are finally here by the 1000s

[Chris Travinski]

Ray,
We wouldn't mind seeing a few pictures if you have a chance!

[Ray Masciarella]

Chris, I will get photos taken and post them. Best, Ray

[Richard Flanders]

Only a dozen calls? Amazing. Who woulda seen that coming, eh? Sorry everyone ruined your chance at a discount on it. :corn:

[Jack Cronkhite]

..., eh?

You been spendin' time east of 140, south of 60 but still north or 49?????

[Richard Flanders]

I have. I spent quite a bit of time in Atlin BC in the 70's... and obviously picked up bad habits in the process! I've spent a fair bit of time in Canada above 70 also.

[Jack Cronkhite]

Not sure if there is sufficient population North of 70 for y'all to talk with to form a bad 'eh habit. More ptarmigan than people I'm thinking.

[Richard Flanders]

Don't think I saw even ptarmigan up there... just eskimos and fortunately they spoke English. The only thing they taught me was how to piss on the carburetor throat of a frozen Elan engine at -40 to get it to start.... very valuable lesson that...

[calvin humburg]

Ok whats a Elan engine. I must no more my simple mind can't see how that can warm metal at 40 below. But I believe you just hard to understand.

[Ray Masciarella]

Richard

No one here ruined anything. Heck, I created the stir by starting this this so i caused myself to pay a little more. Worth it too because the advice I got here was worth far more then the extra I paid. If this thread shows anything it is that I don't know what I'm doing at times. Thx for your concern tho.

Best, Ray

[Richard Flanders]

Calvin: An Elan is a small 250cc snowmachine. Doing what I said warms the carb throat just enough to remove frost that may be blocking the jet.

At least you got the gun Ray! And as long as the barrels are sound, you got a great deal. You can pass it on to someone if you like and tout it as "Swamp Angel II". Any of us would love to own it I'm sure.

[calvin humburg]

I guess 40 below is not as cold as it sounds.

[Ray Masciarella]

You never know who you will hear from. Was conacted by PGCA member who once owned the gun. Used it to shoot trap and crows. Said it was nicely balanced. He has letter that he is going to send to me. Apparently used by at least two different mid-west trap shooters and was factory restocked once. Maybe that's why it now has the period Redhead pad? Maybe the letter will tell me.

I'll try to post photos tomorrow for those who asked.

Best, Ray

[Dean Romig]

Doing what I said warms the carb throat just enough to remove frost that may be blocking the jet.

Let me understand... you piss in the throat or on the outside of it?

Can this be done by an eskimo with an enlarged prostate??

[calvin humburg]

My thought's, I'm going to have to get my 8th grader to do it! I think you would have to do it on the outside of the throat.

[charlie cleveland]

ray your a lucky man....sounds like the old gun has a lot of history behind it and the best part you can prove it.... charlie

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I used to work for a vending company years ago, drove a supply truck for them. Every night I'd have to lock the truck up inside a fenced in area. When there was freezing rain or snow the padlock on the gate would be frozen every time. I'll give you one guess how I got it open on those cold nights.....

[Ray Masciarella]

These photos are proof I know less about photography then I do about old Parkers-as hard it is to believe! Used my camera instead of having my friend, the pro, do them. But you get the idea.:eek:

Best-Ray

[Ray Masciarella]

Ok, letter says original owner was Hugh Mallet of Bradford, I'll. Confirms D4 with 32" barrels with Silvers pad and Lyman sights. Later return for restock by Allen Hol. Letter doesn't mention pad for restock.

Can anyone help me with following questions:

Were Mallet or Hol known trap shooters?

Would the factory have installed a Redhead pad during restock in 1915?

Thx, Ray

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Far as I ever knew, Redheads were never factory with Parker guns. Just have a Silvers put back on it, the new ones are exactly like the old ones.

Destry

[Bill Murphy]

Red Head pads were factory equipment on some Montgomery Ward marketed Stevens doubles. I was so close to ripping the Red Head pad from my minty little Ward's .410 until I saw the pad listed as standard equipment in a Ward's catalog. Whew, that was close. I bought that great little gun from a retail store that is the closest gun store to my house.

[Bill Murphy]

Ray, Hugh Mallett shot a little around the time the gun was made, but only a couple of hundred Interstate birds a year. What is the location of Mr. Hol who had the gun restocked? He was not an Illinois shooter. If the researcher left that information out of the letter, maybe you could give him a call. By the way, if I owned the CHE, I would have my first consecutive numbered pair in fifty years of collecting Parkers. I own a great little 28" GHE, #159,916 that was factory restocked in English Walnut with skeleton butt. It is only the second G Grade with skeleton butt I have seen. Let us know how you like the CHE. I will take it if you don't like it.

[Pete Lester]

You never know who you will hear from. Was conacted by PGCA member who once owned the gun. Used it to shoot trap and crows. Best, Ray

You mean there are somebody else besides me and Scott K. doing that? :rotf:

[Ray Masciarella]

Bill

Allen Hol was from Castleton, I'll according to the letter.

Best, Ray

[Rich Anderson]

Bill I have a GHE 16 0 frame with a skelton butt.

[Pat Dugan]

I would get one of the best wood restorers fix the pinned area and recut the checkering, put a Silvers pad on it and be good to go to the Vintager's with the best of the others. On Pineland Plantation near Albany Ga., I saw Mr. Peter Burrell, with his straight stocked Purdy 20 with a broken wrist held together with Duct tape just keep on shooting till the end of Quail season. The next year he was shooting the same gun repaired and you could not tell it had been broken.

PDD

[Ray Masciarella]

Many have suggested here and in PMs that the stock should be repaired at the pin and then recheckered. I wonder that advantage? The repair is sound and I'd have no problem shooting it just the way it is. I've always liked the "survivor" look and thought a new looking stock on an old gun looked funny. My fear is that once I got started I'd end up restoring the whole gun.
I'm not going to keep this gun but I ask these questions here because I have an AH in similar condition I've thought about restoring. The only difference is that the AH doesn't have a broken stock. Otherwise, it has the same wear with no CCH left, damascus barrels worn, etc. Is it really worth spending all that cash to restore?

Best, Ray

[Bill Murphy]

No, it would ruin it.

[Ray Masciarella]

Bill

No, it would ruin the AH to restore it or no, it would ruin the CHE to refinish stock, or both?

Best-Ray

[Bill Murphy]

Ray, I was actually referring to the AH. However, if I owned the CHE, I would only partially recut the checkering and leave the rest alone. That's just what I normally do. Most of my shooting guns are in original finish with very little cleaning up. My little GHE that is consecutive serial number to your CHE is unrestored with a Keith Kearcher Damascus finish that is quite dark in keeping with the original look of a field used gun.

[Jack Cronkhite]

Bill: could you post a pic of the Kearcher dark damascus to compare with essentially unused or like new damascus restorations. Thanks, Jack

[Bill Murphy]

There we go with the pictures again. Some day.

[Jack Cronkhite]

Some day works for me. as long as it's not a Fogerty (CCR) some day. :eek:

I like the idea of barrels with a color that doesn't outshine the rest of the gun's overall look. For my old eyes, barrels brought back to "new" do look out of place if the rest of the gun is not brought back as well.

[Dean Romig]

There we go with the pictures again. Some day.


Bill, Richard Anderson, alias C.O.B., has posted some very good instructions on photo posting. It you can't find the post you should PM him.

[Ray Masciarella]

I'm with Tarnation in that new looking barrels on an old gun looks funny.

Bill, is this darker, used look a finish that can be specifically requested?

Thx, Ray

[Bill Murphy]

Brown is what KK does.

[Ray Masciarella]

Does anyone refinish old Parkers to a "antique" look. Years ago I collected Sharps rifles. I remember Shiloh made a reproduction that looked 100 years old. Not beat up but used. It was very cool because it looked so authentic. For example, stock finish not perfect with some wear to checking.

This gun might look great that way but no gunsmiths seem to promote this type of work.
Does anyone do it?

Thx, Ray

[Mark Ouellette]

My gunsmith is Brad Bachelder who will refinish to whatever look one desires.

I have a favorite #2 frame EH 10 gauge that I take in duck boats. That is a harsh environment for any gun. The EH had a bolt through the head of the head of the stock that I had Jerry Andrews remove and hide the work. Brad re-case hardened the gun and restored the barrels so that the gun looks far-from-new. The case colors and barrels are softer than the total restorations he has done for me.

Making Damascus barrels "pop" with high contrasting black and white requires more work than does an antique look. The important thing to remember is that the gunsmith needs to understand what you want since refinishing Damascus is somewhat subjective. Make certain that what you want is written on the work order. Provide a photo of the desired product if available.

Another point that I learned about restorations is that Parkers’ case colors varied by production period (of years). If you really like case colors of a Parker made in 1911 and provide the gunsmith a Parker from 1890 and ask for authentic colors, the result probably won't match those of the 1911 gun. If however you want colors to match the 1911 gun, ask the smith if he can do so. Some gunsmiths have discovered or developed specific formulas and processes for the different periods of case colors and refinishing Damascus, twist, and laminate barrels.

Talk to the gunsmith and ask him if he can reproduce the finish that you want. Provide a photo if possible.

Mark

[Ray Masciarella]

Ok, now I need an education on Silver's pads. They come in red or orange as shown in photo. Which would be correct color for this gun? Thx, Ray

[Frank Cronin]

I believe the red Silver's pad wasn't available until 1905. Since your gun was restocked and a pad added in 1915, according to your post, the red one would be fine.

There was discussion on this once before so you can search the archives to make sure my dates are accurate.-- but I think I am close.

Plus I think the red one looks nicer.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I agree with Stub, the red is the way to go. The orange ones, till they age up a bit, look just awful.

DLH

[Ray Masciarella]

Did some brief research on original owner, Hugh Mallet of Bradford, IL. His was born in 1875 in Stark Cty. Became a talented harness maker and eventually became a partner in the Jim Dandy Collar Co, which was very successful through the 1920s. Didn't find anything about his trapshooting career but Bill Murphy says he shoot a few. Having ordered a CHE with 32" damascus barrels, straight stock, ivory sights, Silver's pad, he knew what he wanted and had some resources. What is interesting to me is the damascus barrels ordered (1912) at a time when steel barrels had become the rage.

Happy New Year to all.

Ray

[Dean Romig]

What is interesting to me is the damascus barrels ordered (1912) at a time when steel barrels had become the rage.


Not to hi-jack the thread but today I was fortunate enough to handle a 1928 VH that letters with Damascus barrels. A really sweet Parker.

[Bill Zachow]

Could you tell me the serial on the Damascus VH?

[Ray Masciarella]

Dean, why do you think some buyers still wanted damascus barrels well after steel became the standard?

[Dean Romig]

Bill, it is 227XXX. I only put the X's there because I don't recall those last three digits.

It letters as having gone back to Meriden to be fitted with the Damascus barrels from a G-grade number of 150XXX or something like that.

Ray, I'm sure a great many shooters 'of the day' were quite comfortable with Damascus barrels and appreciated the intricate pattern of those composite tubes.

Edited 9:06 PM

[Pete Lester]

Dean, why do you think some buyers still wanted damascus barrels well after steel became the standard?

Seriously, because fluid steel barrels are rather drab compared to the beautiful pattern of Damascus or even Twist tubes, especially when they were new.

In the early 20th century if one had a choice between fluid and damascus on a Parker, for pure asthetics you would have to have been a fool to buy fluid steel.

[Dean Romig]

But shooters were overloaded with hype from manufacturers of both the guns and the ammo companies that fluid steel barrels were safer to shoot with the new smokeless powders, hence the bad rap Damascus and Twist has received ere to this day.

[John Dunkle]

Bill, it is 227XXX. I only put the X's there because I don't recall those last three digits....
I believe if you open Parker Pages to "Parker's Found", you will find the serial number. It is a wonderful late DAM Parker and the current owner has every right to be justly proud of it.

What a wonderful Parker, as Dean notes...

John