Rifle conversion tubes

[Brian Dudley]

I am kicking around the idea of maybe building a Parker Double rifle. Anyone know of a good source or company for Rifle tube inserts?
I am sure this idea might fizzle out, but it was something I wanted to explore the possibility of doing.
I am sure that a 20g must be a reasonable starting point, but would be nice if I could start with a 12g. or a 16g. to keep the starting expense down.

[John Truitt]

I have a friend who has already done this. Very similar to the design of the remington rifle barrel insert/ auxilary rifle barrel company design offered in the 1870 to 1900.

He will have them out for show and will be shooting them at the Vintage Cup in Sept.

Try pac nor. They will make pretty much anything you want.

[Brian Dudley]

I sent Pac Nor an inquiry.
However, I also got thinking about the possibility of Rifled 20g. tubes in a 12g. gun to make a SxS sabot shooter. I have also asked Briley what they think about the idea and if they can help. We will see what they come up with.

In NY, we cannot hunt deer with rifle in every county. The area of the state that I live in, we can only use a shotgun. This weekend I killed a buck with a 20g. sabot at 60 yards and I could not believe the accuracy of the sabot in that situation. And I have not had great luck with foster slugs out of a smooth bore at the range. The Sabot gun that I was using was not mine, it was an Ithaca 37 of my grandfathers.

I love shooting SxS guns and have gotten very used to them. So that is what is giving me the crazy idea of joining the best of both worlds.

[Rick Losey]

Brian

I will be interested in seeing how you handle the regulation issue in converting a shotgun to a double rifle. Where would you intend the bores to converge?

[Dean Romig]

How would you regulate the barrels?

[Daryl Corona]

Brian,
I know of a 20ga. rifled slug gun being built on a Fox action and basically having these tubes sleeved onto the monoblock. It will be a totally custom job with new wood, leaf sights and I think he mentioned set triggers. So it can be done- good luck with your project because I think that would be great to bag a deer or whatever with a SxS.

[charlie cleveland]

bill i will have to find my info but theres a place in alascka that makes tubes from about 16 inches to any lenth you would want...i have a 22 magnum insert in the right side barrel of a 16 ga german drilling...it is only about 10 inches in lenth..it has adjustments to put the bulletto point of aim in the scope in it...so its possible some body should have 20 ga sleves with set srewsto put it to some point of regulation... if you dont find anything i will try to find info.... love this idea of yours.... charlie

[David Holes]

I have expermented with handloaded round balls in a 16 ga. The accuracy with .021 choke was very impressive. 2 round balls in the same hole dead center at 35 yds. Everygun seems to shoot a little different so you need to pattern for sure. Dave

[Brian Dudley]

My goal would be accuracy at ranges of 50-75 yards. Not sure how to handle the regulation. I am just trying to start by finding some sources to be able to do what I want and then work out the details. Inserts may not be the way to go. Maybe a custom made barrel set with sabot tubes might be best. Anyone know of some good barrel makers? I can explore that option too.

Ideally I think I would like to have this just be an extra barrel set for one of my existing guns instead of starting with a whole new gun. So that way I could have the usual bird barrel and also the scoped sabot/rifle barrel. Maybe my 1 frame 12g. P grade would be a good candidate.


I agree that being able to comfortably hunt big game in the woods with a classic SxS would be awesome. But, to me, using foster slugs out of a smooth bore is just too much leaving it to chance.

[Bill Murphy]

I have been looking at the Hastings 20 gauge barrel blanks on my friend Ken Buch's website. kebcollc.com They are cheap, 30" long, fully rifled, and made by Verney Caron, a great company. Ken also sells rifled choke tubes in several thread patterns, six to eight inches long, also cheap and made by Verney Caron. Depending on the projectile diameter, the choke tubes may provide good accuracy. As far as regulating goes, I know how I would regulate the choke tubes.

[Joe Dreisch]

I know that the point of this post is a very interesting gun, indeed. Back in the 80's I got very good accuracy from a Trojan using the short Brenneke 12 ga. slugs (maybe 2 5/8"?). In fact, I had a 60 yd. downhill shot on a doe where the gun accidentally doubled on me. When I skinned her, it looked like someone drove the barrels into her! Two perfect sxs touching holes..... Until you build the piece of your dreams try finding some Brennekes. You may be nicely surprised. Good shooting!

[todd allen]

If I were thinking about converting a SxS into a double rifle, I would probably start with a Japanese Browning 20 ga. I have heard of this being done, with some pretty fair results using the Browning guns. If you mess up, and ruin a gun - NBD.

[Brian Dudley]

There is some info on Briley's website that HINTS that they might offer rifled tube inserts. But they have yet to reply to my Mailing. We will see.

[Linn Matthews]

As I recall this conversion has been done with a Ruger Red Label.

[Harry Collins]

I have two 45/70 inserts for 12 gauge. Sadly it did not work out as I had hoped. With our 12 gauge side by sides there is a slight bend in the bArrels for regulation. The inserts do not benefit from this. My bullets crossed horribly even at 25 yards. With double rifles if the bullet is to light or to fast the bullets will cross paths before impact. If they are to heavy or to slow they will shoot apart.

[charlie cleveland]

harry i bet those tubes could be regulated in a 10 ga gun with a little fiddlin around...charlie

[Harry Collins]

I guess they could be and it was fun to play with as I tried them in every 12 gauge I owned. At one point I had some money and purchased a Kodiak Mark IV in 45/70. The 400 grain bullets were to heavy and shot apart so I loaded 300 grain Speer bullets until I achieved regulation of 2 1/2 inch four shot groups at 100 yards. This with 61 grains of IMR 3031 at over 2100 fps. I have a Kodiak in 58x58 that will shoot 4" groups at 100 yards with a 665 grain REAL bullet and 110 grains of Pyrodex RS. Fun, fun.....

[charlie cleveland]

now thats a gun harry...ever try the big gun on deer...if it was mine i would have to try it....wish my old 8 shooting the round ball load was a little more accurate...past 40 steps i womt take a shot.... charlie

[Harry Collins]

I hAve deer hunted with both doubles. I thought I was shooting a doe with the 45/70, but it was over 100 yards in morning light and I did not see the buttons. Been skunked every time with the 58x58. One time in the rain I had a good shot, but water had gotten past the nipples and I had misfires on both barrels.

[Brian Dudley]

Those darned button bucks! lol.

[Brian Dudley]

Well I finally found a barrel maker that is willing to build my SxS slug gun. He has many years of experience in building Double rifles and slug guns. However, we are not using a Parker as a base as I had wanted.

He completely frowns upon using single bolted actions for rifle conversions, and said that it would be OK for a slugger. But if I am going to spend the money and him take the time to build the gun, then he would prefer it be something that is going to hold up and not be 100 year old steel. So I found me a nice Spanish Made triple bolted gun as a donor.

When we are done, I will have a 24" rifled 12g. slug gun with both iron sights and removable scope. And based on what he has shown me for accuracy on past guns he has built, it should be quite the deer slayer.

[Dean Romig]

Why not just buy a RBL Professional?

[Brian Dudley]

You do have a point there. I think I will come out a bit cheaper than the CSMC slug gun costs. They start at $4k if I remember correctly.

[Bob Jurewicz]

Brian,
Take a look at this thread about a DR project.
http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/760101804/m/9161056571
Bob Jurewicz

[Brian Dudley]

Bob,

Thanks for sharing that. It shows a good example of lessons learned. It is funny that you bring that up. I actually found the website for that "gunsmith" when I was looking into this project.

By all means, the gunsmith that I have lined up to do my work comes with recomendations and he sure knows his stuff. Also, his work looks great.

[ed good]

brian: as i recall, only those shotgun actions with double under lugs and a greener type cross bolt are considered strong enough to handle high pressure rifle calibers. there is a wonderful book written by w. ellis brown which goes into this subject in much detail. the title is "building double rifles on shotgun actions". the publishers web site is bundukipublishing.com. also, if you do a web search for w. ellis brown you will find lots of info re building double rifles. good luck with your project. ed

[Robin Lewis]

Ed,
Does the Winchester 21 fit that criteria? I see that they made rifles on the 21 but I know nothing about how the 21 is designed. I do know it is renowned for its strength.....
http://www.gunsinternational.com/EXCEPTIONALLY-FINE-WINCHESTER-MODEL-21-DOUBLE-RIFLE.cfm?gun_id=100246447

[ed good]

i do not know the answer to that...i would think a win 21 is too valuable a shotgun to make into a double rifle...mr. brown has a web site. maybe he could answer your question re the 21 action and its suitability for rifle conversion.

[Brian Dudley]

I did speak with Ellis Brown about the project and he said that single bolting is a no-no for rifle conversions. But for a slug gun conversion it would most likely be ok depending on the type.
Personally, I think that realistically, single bolting might be ok for rifles for average ammo. But the thing is that you never know what people might try to put through something after you don't own it anymore.
That is why I take the experts advice on such topics. I figure they know better.