Is This For Real?

[Dave Noreen]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Parker-Gun-Remington-Advertising-Pocket-Watch-/320781006035?pt=UK_Jewellery_Watches_Pocket_Watche s_Accessories_ET&hash=item4ab009b4d3

[Dean Romig]

Good question.

It's the first I've ever seen.

I have seen a lot of phony or counterfeit stuff with Parker logos of various designs so your guess is as good as mine.

[charlie cleveland]

looks good even if its fake or real... interesting time piece.... charlie

[Bill Murphy]

I see no way to document this item as "real". Even if the watch is old, the dial face could have been faked. Much as I would like to think such a thing is a Remington collector piece, I will succumb to lack of interest. However, the seller seems to be reputable, so if you send money, you will probably get a watch in the mail. If you examine his recent sales or offerings, you will discover that he is apparently MAKING these watches. Good for him. At least he isn't starting his auctions at $35,000.

[Richard Flanders]

Looks that way Bill. Would anything authentic be marked "Parker - Remington" ??

[Jerry Harlow]

These Westclox watches were usually seen on a cardboard with over a dozen of them on the same display in country stores. They were called "dollar watches." I still have one of them I used to carry, and yes they were made in the USA. Westclox also made your wind-up alarm clocks.

The internet, for what it is worth, said Westclox made these watches from 1899 until the 1990s. I doubt they changed the design over the last fifty plus years so anything is possible for a watch known as a "dollar watch."

[edgarspencer]

What seems odd is why would a guy in the Midlands of the UK be faking a watch with a gun that is hardly known over there. I spent 25 years going back and forth and only met a few gun people who knew much at all about Parkers, and claimed they never saw very many.

[Dave Suponski]

Maybe its not as hardly known as we think

[Destry L. Hoffard]

It's an absolute fake, these style watched have been floating around with various logos on the face for years. The first ones I ever saw had Coca Cola logos, then it was Winchester, then it was Boy Scout, now it's everything under the sun. I know a guy who has the computer program to made the paper decal for the dials.


Destry

[Kenny Graft]

In about 80 years it will be very collectible from the turn of the centry...(-:

[greg conomos]

It sure doesn't look old.

[Bruce Day]

"Is This For Real" Yes its a real watch, but only someone's contemporary idea of what a Parker watch would look like.

[Bill Murphy]

I guess I should explain that, in looking at this dealer's past sales, he has these watches in several different logos as Destry said.

[Bruce Day]

Its like the Bulldog knives that Jim Parker had made with Parker logos. Parker enthusiasts collect those, along with oil bottles, snap caps, shooting bags, etc. They are not originally made by Parker Brothers. I have these things and I'm glad to have them. We had some knives at the PGCA silent auction and I acquired one that Dean donated, thanks.

Would you label these fake or phoney?

[Drew Hause]

I believe the same seller recently offered a Hunter Arms watch; same pic background

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/14709515/398238430.jpg

[Russ Jackson]

You have to admit ,Real or Phony ,and I think we can all agree ,it wasn't made by Parker or Remington .They probably keep decent time and they are unique and very attractive , at least to my eye ! Wonder where it will end up $$$ ??

[Thomas L. Benson Sr.]

It may not be original but it is kinda cool. I sell the old dollar watches at gun shows for around 20/25 dollars that work. My guess is about 85.00 dollars Thomas

[Russ Jackson]

Thomas take a look ,Its already way above that ! Russ

[Brian Dudley]

Shame it isn't a lot less. He should make more and drop the price to under $50. It would be a neat thing to have. Even if it is fake. Looks very nice.

[Richard Flanders]

At the current $218US someone sure wants it badly!

[Thomas L. Benson Sr.]

Man was I wrong.I guess its like the car business saying there is a ass for every seat. Thomas

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Some poor soul thinks it's real, that's the whole problem here.

DLH

[Bruce Day]

Some poor soul thinks it's real, that's the whole problem here.

DLH

How do you know that?

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Who in their right mind would give over $200 for a cheap $20 watch with a sticker on the dial if they didn't? You can buy a decent 21 jewel railroad grade pocket watch for $250 if you keep your eye out. These kinds of watches are cheaply made, they keep terrible time, and don't last very long.

If you were going to spend this kind of money and knew it was an obvious reproduction / fake why wouldn't you buy a nice high quality vintage watch for the same kind of money then have a decal made for it's dial? That would certainly make a lot more sense to a knowledgeable buyer.

Destry

[Steve Huffman]

:corn:

[Bruce Day]

I agree with you. Its not the rational approach. But there are people who pay lots of money for anything with Parker on it. For example, these nickel plated square oil bottles with Parker Bros stamped on them that were made in England in the 1980's. They were $40 then. Now you try to find one and I've seen them sell for $100. A person can find another one without Parker on them and pay, what, $60?

And maybe this ebay bidder is not real......I understand some of these sellers submit fake bids to drive prices up then they offer another one and it gets snapped up. I don't know what motivates some of these buyers, maybe he just wants it.

Destry, I'm not saying you are wrong and I'm not trying to start any controversy. Some of these Parker things, well I just shake my head and don't know what they are thinking.

[charlie cleveland]

not me....... charlie

[Bruce Day]

I looked again and the seller has the bidders name hidden. I suspect its one of those ebay schemes where the seller runs the price up himself trying to make it look like there is interest. Just another reason I stay away from ebay.
A scout parent in our troop who tries to make a living off ebay sales told me about this scheme and how it works.

[Dave Suponski]

I gotta admit its kinda cool but that seller is laughing all the way to the bank..:rolleyes:

[Brian Dudley]

The bidders name being hidden is standard fare for Ebay. Only the Seller can see the names in full.
And I agree with Destry, the price alone says that someone thinks it is an antique. If the bidder is legit.

[edgarspencer]

They don't use a decal, they do a photo transfer. Actually quite good quality. So what if it's not genuine bona fide Charles Parker manufacture. Lots of people like having little things like that.
I had a 100 quartz watches done with the Land Rover logo photo transfered. The watches cost me $28 ea, in a stainless case too. I sold them on one of the Land Rover boards years ago. I don't think one of all 100 buyers thought for a minute that Land Rover made them, but they sold out in one weekend.
A local Ford dealer had a bunch of pocket watches made with a Roadster pickup picture and the Ford logo and gave them to new car customers. As they came in new plastic boxes, I'm sure no one thought they were 80 years old. I have one, same as the ebay Parker watch, and it keeps excellent time. Zero jewels. Will it last as long as a Patek Phillipe ? No, but who cares.
Not everything is a conspiracy.

[Russ Jackson]

Edgar ,I agree whole heartedly with you ! Too bad the seller didn't make up a nice group of these watches and offer them to the PGCA ,I would make a guess at $28.00 ,he would have made much more from this Forum ,than he will make with only one watch ! It wouldn't suprise me much to see many more of these come onto e-bay ,one at a time or in small quantity also ! This happened a few years ago with Leather gun cases ,they were very nice and bid high at first and the last few were picked up very inexpensively ! I know ,I have one of the last few ! Russ

[Brian Dudley]

I asked the seller about the watch. As to if he knew who made it. And I told him that I doubted it was old enough to have actually been associated with Parker or Remington directly. He said that he was not sure exactly. And that he had picked it up at a show about 8-10 years ago. He is a watch collector he says. I explained to him the connection of Parker to Remington, and being that they stopped Parker production by end of WW2. He said that the movement is deffinately not that old. He guesses more like 1950's.

[James Brown]

Sold for $258.30 plus shipping.

[Brian Dudley]

About a couple hundred too much for my taste.

[Francis Morin]

[quote=Bruce Day;53209]I looked again and the seller has the bidders name hidden. I suspect its one of those ebay schemes where the seller runs the price up himself trying to make it look like there is interest. Just another reason I stay away from ebay. I have my uncle's old Ingersoll RR watch he bought new, with fob, in the 1920's- he called it his "turnip timepiece"- I just bought at a gun show a cheap Chinese copy made up for the "TimePieces- American Historic Society (a non-existent entity, according to my Google recon) but, there was a bonus- I paid $10.00 for this piece of Chink-made junk because it had 2 1921 Morgan silver dollars inside each of the pot metal shells- whether the seller knew this, or if he did, knew what Morgan 1921 Liberty and peace Silver dollars are worth today, i do not know, nor care-

You are 100% right on the E-bay scams- I found a like new Milwaukee (made in Milwaukee WI- like the Harleys ) vaccuum pump, in the box - in a barn salvage deal back in August- I knew it was worth some $- checked e-bay- took it to a dealer friend who specializes in tools- he told me the exact same thing about e-bay- about as trustworthy as a politician running for a "re-up" and how they worked that "false bid scam" he went right to the Milwaukee website, found out this little gem retails for over $700.00, made me a fair offer in three solid figures, and we both made out- I would offer my grandchildren into slavery before I would EVER buy or sell on e-bay- I don't trust Pay-pal any further than i can throw a F-18's landing gear either-:bigbye::bigbye:

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I buy and sell on eBay on a weekly basis, it makes me a big part my living and buys almost every gun or hunting trip I purchase. It has it faults and problems but for the most part folks are honest. I could count on one hand the serious problems I've had on there and have been involved in literally thousands upon thousands of transactions.

You can sell stuff on there for more money than you can dragging it around to flea markets and gun shows a lot of the time. Example: I bought 14 LL Bean cork black ducks from a guy awhile back for $15 each. I put some of them out three times at a flea market, and twice at gun shows for $25 each without even a tire kicker looking at them. Put a group of three on eBay and in a week I had $160 for the group, another group of three, same kind of money, until they were all gone and I'd made some decent cash. Tried them in other selling venues first because I didn't want to fool with shipping them but in the end it was eBay that got me the sales.

If you don't like it, don't use it. Those of us that do, enjoy the money it makes and the items it puts in our collections that we'd never find elsewhere.



Destry

[Thomas L. Benson Sr.]

Francis: I have sold three collector cars and numerous other items and have nothing but good things to say about ebay. I think you should take another look and give it a try. Thomas

[Francis Morin]

I mostly deal in used gun parts for double shotguns- I like to find old "parts guns" and salvage them for possible re-usable parts- sometimes you get some good parts, other times not. But like the guns I acquire (all used) I only buy from people I know and trust- a few dealers at shows, mainly from farmers.

You can't buy or sell guns on E-bay, but we can sell double guns and parts on the PGCA Forum. The $40 annual membership is a bargain- I have dealt with quite a few members here, every deal has been A-OK on both ends. To list on E-Bay, as on GI, Gun broker, etc- you must open an account, and that means both Pay-Pal and giving them a credit card- I'd cut off my right arm in a table saw before I would ever do that- too many fraud minded folks out trolling the choppy waters for me-

A PGCA Life member, whom I respect mentioned the term 'WARY" in his anaylsis of my "modus operandi" and he is as right as the mail on that- I do my business face to face, handshake and payment terms are those my Granddad taught me- CIF- CASH IN FIST-- For others here who have done well using E-Bay, I say "More power to you- go for it, I'll never get in your way" because Hell will freeze over and St. Peter will be pouring Michelob to go with the motza balls on rye before I ever take a step in that direction.

I wish I was smart enough to understand what my pal Luigi was telling me about the "rigged and dummy" false bids that drive up prices on E-Bay, but I am not- but I am cautious and possibly smart enough NOT to trust what I don't understand. My prediction- just as the Madoff Ponzi scheme finally saw the end, there will be a loud crash and burn on E-Bay and some folks will end up holding the short end of the stick--and the swindlers will be in some Bermuda island on a yacht, holding up a glass of champagne- like in the movie "Trading places"-- looking good!!!!!:p:p:p:p:cool::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Bobby Cash]

From Wikipedia,
Matzoh balls in a bowl of soup, Matzoh balls (Yiddish: קניידלעך kneydlekh pl., singular קניידל kneydl; also kneydls, matza balls, matzoh balls, or matzo balls) are a traditional Ashkenazi dumpling made from matzoh meal.

Your thinly veiled bigotry never ceases to amaze me.
I too wish you were smart enough to understand that never in the history of the world (or the hereafter) have Matzoh Balls been served up in a sandwich on Rye Bread. If you've ever had a well made Matzoh Ball in a bowl of Chicken Noodle Soup, you'ld know for certain that it would be found on any heavenly menu.
:knowbetter:

[greg conomos]

The single biggest problem with sellers on Ebay is overstating the condition of an item, or pleading ignorance as to the age, quality, or origin of an item. Most people I buy from on Ebay (not all) seem to have a different set of eyes than I do.....items described as 'mint' and 'perfect' arrive with scratches, rust, wear, etc. Another warning flag is the poor quality digital photo - you know, some guy selling a $75,000 Viper with cell phone images. Occasionally I will buy something that is accurately represented but usually it's not.

[Francis Morin]

From Wikipedia,
Matzoh balls in a bowl of soup, Matzoh balls (Yiddish: קניידלעך kneydlekh pl., singular קניידל kneydl; also kneydls, matza balls, matzoh balls, or matzo balls) are a traditional Ashkenazi dumpling made from matzoh meal.

Your thinly veiled bigotry never ceases to amaze me.
I too wish you were smart enough to understand that never in the history of the world (or the hereafter) have Matzoh Balls been served up in a sandwich on Rye Bread. If you've ever had a well made Matzoh Ball in a bowl of Chicken Noodle Soup, you'ld know for certain that it would be found on any heavenly menu.
:knowbetter:-- That phrase came to me in the USMC from my best fried, Lennie Teitelbaum-- being of the Jewish Faith, he knew, and even explained to me, what a matzoh meal was- it was his Yiddish humor in his own spin- first off- St. Peter is NOT of this world- being a Catholic even I know that- so the scenario is set for a form of what the Hindu might call a "Koan" a riddle set in an illogical scenario. I have been a guest in his home several times in Long beach, enjoyed great food and humor. If he were reading this- he would no doubt laugh and add- "So, whaddare ya- schmuck with earlaps already?" The ability to laugh at either the world or ones self in harsh surroundings has been one of many reasons for the survival of the Jewish faith over eons- in spite of pogroms and the horrors of the Holocaust- you want an example (already?)-- Mel Brooks is as kosher as they come- see his great spoof movie "Springtime for Hitler"-- or for an great example, following WW1 in Englasnd and the 1924 Olympics held in Paris- "Chariots of fire" and the star runner Abrahms- all the snide comments couldn't deter him, even from the idiot Prince of Wales- "well, do the best you can, Abrahams, that's all we can expect"--

You owe me and my friend an apology, but Hell will most likely freeze over and Gabriel will be pouring Guinness from a stirrup cup before that happens- now try to find something anti-Semetic in that if you can. And in closing, Lennie's favorite phrase with the coming Christmas Holidays- "Be sure to deck those halls with matzoa balls" !!:rotf::rotf:

[greg conomos]

I used to get Matzoh ball sandwiches on rye at this little deli in Manhattan all the time. They were out of this world.

[Bobby Cash]

One only has to reach back in time 3 replies for your latest pearl of not so thinly veiled bigotry.

... I paid $10.00 for this piece of Chink-made junk ...

And who could forget the ever popular,"... some big Bi-Polar spook ..."(gleaned from your thread, 7 Dead in Kent County (MI- Grand Rapids) massacre in the Misfire section on Doublegun.com).
Now would be a good time to tell me what your Chinese and African American marine buddies served you for dinner back in the day.

I'm sorry Francis (there, I said the words), but I can't hear who you're telling me you are, your actions are shouting too loudly.

[Bill Murphy]

I wonder how Francis missed the Model 21 that I bought on ebay within the last year, for $500.00. Yup, the gun people don't pay much attention to ebay any more. Works for me.

[Brian Dudley]

Destry, your right, not too much trouble had on Ebay here either. I have not done as much business as you on there, but I have a 100% feedback score of 445 and counting. And in my 8-9 years of selling an buying on there, I have only had a few bad experiences. There is no better place to find or sell whatever and have a large audience to market to.

No I can't say the same for Craigslist. lol.

[Francis Morin]

I used to get Matzoh ball sandwiches on rye at this little deli in Manhattan all the time. They were out of this world. His late uncle was head groundskeeper at the old (House that Ruth built) Yankee Stadium) in Da Bronx-- twice while we had a delay leave in transit in the USMC I went to Yankees games with Lennie, his father and other chums- we got 3rd baseline seats- met Casey "Der Olde Perfesser" Stengal, before he 'retired" and ended up with the NL Mets- bad move I should guess. We also went to Coney island several times with some of his HS girl friends- and his family was involved back in 1912-13 with Nathan Handwerker and his friends in establishing the World-known "Nathan's Famous"-- great times, and I still like the Yankees for the best AL team-- used to like the Reds when pete "Charlie Hustle" Rose played, now I kinda have shifted my allegiance to the St, Louis Cards-- paid off pretty good too this past week-Shalom!!!:whistle::whistle:

[John Dunkle]

...n'ces pas????

I would invite you to post about things you have first hand experience. Such as "n'ces pas", which you wrote. Correctly it is "n'est pas", or more correctly "n'est-ce pas", unless you are quoting Bonaparte.

Second - you are not only wrong, but out of line - regarding ATF and eBay. That eBay now forbids what the ATF legally defines as "firearms" - it has ABSOLUTELY ZERO, nothing, nada, whatever - to do with an ATF transactions - legal or illegal. Until the recent policy change on eBay, tens of thousands of firearms were legally sold and purchased using the eBay auction site as a "storefront".

That you say - quote: "I'll send of copy of this to the closest BAFT office to MD" is ill informed (firstly - it is BATF - not "..BAFT.."), but moreso, to use this forum and posts within this forum to cast threats to other users, I find it particularly reprehensible, heightened by the fact that you are using your own ill-informed view, which has zero basis in reality - as the basis for those same threats.

My e-mail is admin@reutterwerk.com If you would like to post further in this forum, please e-mail to explain how this happened in this thread vis-a-vis your posting and as importantly - why it won't occur at ANY TIME in the future. Until that time, your posting privileges are suspended indefinitely.

I'll read your e-mail when I have the chance, but certainly won't feel rushed.

This thread is closed and two posts removed.

Have a great day, gentlemen.

John