Parker Bench Vises

[edgarspencer]

Bill Bolyard and I were talking about Parker vises, but others may have some interest in them also.
My paternal grandfather was born in Meriden (as was my father) and after high school, went to work for the Parker family, apprenticing in the foundry, as a pattern maker initially, but eventually taking over the melting dept. He left Meriden Mfg in 1916, and with his cousin, bought the Connecticut Foundry Co, in Rocky Hill CT.
Most bench vises actually made in the Meriden Mfg. Co foundry are long gone, because, as the story goes, they weren't very good at Ductile and Malleable Iron, so concentrated on grey iron for their own product lines as well as many outside customers. Connecticut Foundry produced most of the castings for Parkers, until my grandfather and his cousin split up the partnership. The castings were briefly made in Wethersfield, just up the road from Rocky Hill, and only 2 towns up from Meriden. In 1923, my grandfather bought out Booth, of the Philbrick-Booth Foundry Company, in Hartford, when it became Philbrick, Booth & Spencer, Inc. The Parker vise casting business followed him and the ductile iron castings were made there until the early 1940s.
The patterns pictured were made well before the practice of lacquer painting patterns with black for as-cast surfaces, red for machined surfaces, and yellow for core prints (the part of the pattern that made the impression into which the cores were placed). PBS went into the steel casting business in 1960, and poured their last cast iron in 1970, concentrating on all grades of cast steel and stainless steel. I am the last of 7 generations of foundry Spencers. PBS closed in 1999.

[Robin Lewis]

That was great, thank you!

You should consider this for a Parker Pages article, the history along with these pictures and some technical detail on the pictures would be of interest to the many members that do not read this forum. This is fascinating to hear about!

[Bill Murphy]

I have Parker vises on every work bench in my house. My favorite is the 973 which is of the size and design as to be useful to anyone. My "Big Bertha" is a great vise, but not as useful as smaller ones because it does not swivel. When the M.P. Moller organ factory in Hagerstown, MD was auctioned off some years ago, dozens of work benches in use from 1896 were sold. There was a Parker vise on the end of each bench. When I supervised a truck fleet early in my working life, our maintenence garage housed many work benches with a Parker vise on each one. I would imagine that they are still there.

[edgarspencer]

I'd have to agree with you Bill, the 973 is the ideal size (3" if memory serves) especially for general "indoor" use such as gun work.
Other than what I've learned by observation, I have yet to figure out the numbering system the company used, partly due to the fact that they changed it so often. The 97X series seems to be based on the jaw size, 973 being 3", 974, a 3 1/2", and presumably the 975 would have been 4", except I've neither seen one marked with the pattern number 975.
I have a 4" marked '89', which has a very different, early style, lettering. Interestingly it says "The Parker Company" in a curving block letter pattern, and has a round headstock opening, below tool steel jaws. All my others say 'Charles...' or even 'Chas'.
The one I get the most amount of use is not marked with any numerical model, but simply an X on the left side of the movable jaw stock, and a 1930 patent date. Casting defects, such as burned in (or burned on) sand, often meant that area was ground, and sand surface defects are common around lettering in the old 'green sand' molding process. As this vise is nearly identical, just larger than my 973, It might have been a 974 (except it's jaws are 3 1/2")
I have another vintage 4", unmarked in anyway, an likely not a Parker, as a rotatable rear jaw, so one could get maximum bearing on a part that didn't have parallel surfaces. This one has a lift 'plunger' to allow rotating the base.
A result of the internet, there are so many 'groups' devoted to the most esoteric subjects, and bench vises are just one of them. I chuckle when I run across one with painted up, pinstriped, and gilded examples. Somehow, I never thought of these as 'show pieces'.

[Richard Flanders]

I agree on the Parker Pages article. This info and more should be immortalized in print for the records. Great stuff. My best vises are hand-forged vintage blacksmith leg vises. One is 120# and 6" I think and near mint and has enough mechanical advantage to crush a VW I'd think. The coolest is stamped 1899(year of the gold rush)and was found sticking out of the tundra 75miles north of Nome. The 'teeth' on the faces are hand cut and still as sharp as new. 4" jaws. Looks like it was never used but likely was. Very cool 'little' vise. Only weighs maybe 75#.

[Robert Delk]

Great post and really worth putting into the archives. John Deere in Waterloo had some Parker vises in the old plant on Westfield street. They moved most of the operation to newer buildings and I hope the vises followed.I have a couple of Parker vises but mostly use my Emmert.Really like the photos of the pattern as I worked in the foundry at Deere's for 15 years.Lots of Parker vises on ebay if anyone is looking for one.

[Bill Murphy]

Yup, go for it on ebay. I'm getting too old to bring home more vises. Mine are for sale but I won't ship them. They are great Parker collector items. Every Parker guy should have at least one.

[Richard Flanders]

I agree Bill! There is a bunch of them on ebay. Didn't realize there were so many around. One is all repainted nice and would do me just fine but I'm not shipping one up here either...

[Dean Romig]

Edgar, Please consider doing a nice, detailed technical article on what you have written here and expand on it if you will please. Also please include all of the pictures you have shown us (more if you have them) and send it all to either myself dsromig@aol.com or Austin Hogan austin.w.hogan@valley.net for inclusion in a future issue of Parker Pages.

Thank you in advance,
Dean

[Tim Bivens]

Lots of good info. on Parker vices here:

http://dayid.org/mediawiki/index.php/Charles_Parker_Vise

[Eldon Goddard]

Trying to get a guy to respond on one it is a model 202 and he wants $75. I do not know if it is a good price.

[Eldon Goddard]

I also wanted to say that Mr. Spencers story was very interesting. I think that half the problem with products today is that we do not have the generations of craftsman like we used to.:bigbye:

[Tim Bivens]

The link I posted in post 10 has a lot of good information on Parker vices, however it is not an all encompassing list by any means. Witness this 238 lb. # 6 monster with 8" wide jaws which is not listed. Which brings up another question. Does anyone understand the numbering system of Parker vices? It seems to have nothing to do with size or type of vice.

[John Dallas]

How much for the wagon?

[Tim Bivens]

How much for the wagon?

John,
The wagon and the vice are not mine. I do have several Parker vices but my largest one is about half the weight of that #6. I like that wagon too and may build one like it.
Thanks,
Tim

[edgarspencer]

I have a bunch of vices too, but, alas, only a few are the cast steel kind. Someone has more anvils than I do also.

[charlie cleveland]

what a beauty and monster of a vise.... charlie

[Bill Murphy]

My #107 has the same problem as the #6 does, no swivel. My #107 is mounted on the end of my loading bench and there are many jobs that it can't do conveniently because of its configuration. By the way, the #107 is a 132 pounder with a 16" bar. According to the chart, it opens to 10 1/2 inches. I have a #973 on the other end of the bench that gets a lot more use.

[Tom Kidd]

Here are a few photographs of a Semi-Steel, Solid Bar, 229X Parker vise, showing 1908 and 1910 patient dates, with 3 1/8" smooth jaws that came from the pattern shop at the Fox Company. It opens to 6 1/2". It has a tag on it from the late 1929 Inventory taken during the A.H. Fox Gun Company sales to Savage. I bought two work benches with them mounted at the Fox Products Company bankruptcy sale. The other photograph is of a small Parker vise, a Parker Brass Anvil, and a Parker Vise Sales bear. I also have a massive, very high Parker vise that came out of Fox's heat treating department. It is over at my son's place, I'll try and get over for a photo sometime this week. Life is Good, Treat it With Respect!

[Bill Murphy]

Tom, is the anvil marked?

[Tom Kidd]

Hello Bill,

Yup, here is a photo of the mark which is in the anvil's throat. I have been told that there is one that is about 1/3 larger, but haven't seen one.

Before the lousy weather hits, I ran over and got some photos of the massive, deep throated, Parker swivel based vise, that is hiding over in my son's barn. It is about 18" high, and the jaws are about 7" wide, and from the beam looks like it will open to about 12" to 14". I used to use it to set up rear ends. I remember it takes a couple of us to move it about and an engine lift to get it up on the bench. Unfortunately, I can't easily move it where it is, so I can't see the model number, but the body's cast 'THE CHAS PARKER' marking clearly shows in the photograph, as well as on the drive screw's lynch block. Like you, I used to buy them if fairly priced. I have an original box around here somewhere for one of the bigger bench vises. About 35 years ago the company where I worked bought new ones from an industrial supply house. They were only marked 'PARKER' as I remember. Ticker meds done, so time to hit the sack.

[Bill Murphy]

Thanks, Tom. I've never seen that vise nor have I seen a Parker marked miniature anvil.

[Jeff Kuss]

It is interesting that it is marked Parker Bros. I would guess it came out of the gun factory.
Here is a vise you don't see very often. It is a # 429.

[edgarspencer]

Thanks, Tom. I've never seen that vise nor have I seen a Parker marked miniature anvil.

I'd bet a buck it was actually made by Bradley & Hubbard for Parker. Parker did not pour non-ferrous in their foundry.

[edgarspencer]

These are Bradley & Hubbard. The bronze ones are 3 1/4" Horn to heel, and the iron one is 10 1/4".
( It's actually steel. I Borrowed one from my sister, who has a lot of the B&H patterns, and used it for a pattern to cast in my foundry.) Oddly, Old Sturbridge Village brought an antique one to us to have a repro made, as they didn't think they should be using the original. After I told them I thought was stupid, I took a drilling from the bottom of it, and ran it through our lab. It was a high carbon as I'd expect from CI, but also high in Mg, Cr and NI, so it made me wonder if steel may be older than we thought. None the less, it rang like the original and their hippy dippy blacksmith thought it was great.

[Tom Kidd]

Hello Edgar, The Parker anvil measures exactly 3 1/2" from the tip to the heel and appears to have a slightly different shape??? I can post more photos if interested.

[edgarspencer]

I forgot I had one like yours. Mine may not be as tall. It's a number 88. I guess I've had it quite awhile, because I don't remember having the energy to get it up to the 2nd floor of the barn. Somebody trade me something for it.
Also, I never hear anyone mention one of Parkers woodworking vises. Here's a no.26. They mounted to the underside of the bench, and are very useful, though not as versatile as a true pattern makers vise (3 axis angle adjustment)

[Bill Murphy]

Tom, I have a 3 1/2" anvil like yours, but unmarked. I guess it is iron or steel because a magnet sticks to it. I may have been wrong about never having seen a Parker marked anvil, because I bought this one because it was identical to a marked one I had seen (I think). There sure are a lot of bears out there. I wonder if Edgar was ever approached to cast those?

[edgarspencer]

I wonder if Edgar was ever approached to cast those?

If he was, he doesn't remember. Anything small, like replacement parts for my steam engines, I would do on my own, making the mold in the core room and pouring it myself. Our ladles were 20,000#, suspended from 50 ton bridge cranes. It made hitting a 1" pouring cup tricky, especially since the stream was about 2 1/2" diameter, and at about 30#/second.
These little anvils were more likely jewelers tools. Mine were salesman's handouts as paperweights. Same with the Parker Bears and itty bitty vises.

[Tom Kidd]

Hello Edgar and Bill, My small vise is finely finished like a jeweler's tool would have been. It also shows quite a bit of honest table (top working surface) wear, but no signs of abuse. Just a Neat small Parker piece. I just checked it is indeed non magnetic, so is most likely brass as it appears. Bill, you are correct, there were a boat load of Bears, but I only have the one left, traded the rest away. These vises are like coffee grinders, a LOT of different models have and are turning up. Before ebay, I sure paid too much for a few of them(coffee grinders), Oh Well, ebay is what it is, a world wide flea market. Sometimes I miss the good old simplier days. Thanks Edgar for mentioning the 'itty bitty vises', I forgot about them and went into a panic mode looking for mine, finally found it downstairs in the safe, bent handles and all.

[Robert Delk]

Vises are a vice of mine and I really got a lot of new info on Parker vises from this thread.I have seen Parker vises in the John Deere works and in railroad yard workshops around here and they still are using them.Just as good as the guns and in almost as much variety.

[edgarspencer]

Here's a nice little craft anvil.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=111004395879

[DArcy Echols]

As a full time rifle maker I have looked for a good working condition 4" to 5" jaw Parker for many years. I have found a few that were pretty useless and beyond repair and I have missed 2 good working examples on the web by just hours. If anyone has or knows of a rear swivel jaw vise for sale please contact me at 435-755-6842 or echolslegend@comcast.net

Thank You
D'Arcy Echols

[edgarspencer]

D'Arcy, what you want is a Number 272. Good luck finding that one, I've been looking for years. I have one which for all practical purposes is the same, but not marked by any maker.

[Bill Murphy]

Rear swivel jaw vise??

[edgarspencer]

Rear swivel jaw vise??

Rear Jaw swivels for non parallel work.

[DArcy Echols]

Precisely what I'm looking for, Like finding rocking horse tracks

[Bill Murphy]

I've had a trainload of Parker vises, but never one of those. So the stationary jaw can actually swivel. How about that.

[Dean Romig]

Edgar, that looks like a late Parker vise - what year span was that model made?

[edgarspencer]

It's post war, but I'm not sure how long it was in production. Reed & Prentiss, individually made a similar one. Those two companies merged, and still exist today. Their vises were much less expensive than the 282 Parker. I just figured out, the one I have is a Prentiss.

The first one is a Reed, the 2nd, a Prentiss.

[Rick Losey]

D'Arcy

do you need the weight of the big vice or is it the swivel feature that you are looking for

a gunsmith's vice (in the front) will give you that, the blue one in the back is the non-swivel Parrot vice that is the parallel jaw version. They can be adjusted on two planes to position the work

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg195/setterw/3fc59290-014b-4f59-a079-683b2310363b_zps22baa29b.jpg

[Craig Parker]

Seen this vise on ebay thought I let you know about it, maybe you already seen it.

Craig


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chas-Parker-Bench-Vise-w-Swivel-Base-Inv-26844-/290849369038?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item43b7f92bcese on ebay thought I let you know about it, maybe you already seen it.

Craig


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chas-Parker-Bench-Vise-w-Swivel-Base-Inv-26844-/290849369038?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item43b7f92bce

[Phillip Carr]

Thought that I would bring this one to the top after doing a search on Chas Parker vises. Killing time in an antique shop Today I found a Model 234 vise made or at least marked 1910. Surprisingly nice condition. It is a large bench vise/anvil. Tried searching on line for this model but did not find any information. Anyone have one of these or can share any information it would be great.

[Dean Romig]

Edgar where are you?





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[edgarspencer]

I can't find my paperwork, but I know it's here somewhere.
Go to Garagejournal.com, or Shopfloortalk.com. There have been so many threads on Parker vises, you'd think someone woud have writen a book on them by now

[James J. Roberts]

I found a nice Parker vise at the DC big flea antique show two years ago number 204 for $ 150,did a happy dance out the door that day. J.J.

[Phillip Carr]

Thank you Edgar. I am going back down there today and look at it again and will take a picture. Will head over to the sites you mentioned to see what I can find.

[Greg Baehman]

Thanks for reviving this thread. Here's a Parker 974 vise that I purchased and then refinished a few years ago, 4" jaws that open to 5 1/2".

[Rick Losey]

well- now I have to think about where i would put it if i get it

wondered through an antique store and in the back was a fair sized 249X 83 pound 4" jawed Parker vise - pretty rusty on the outside- but it ran in and out smooth - think i can pick it up for about 200- just need to find room for another vise

[Brian Dudley]

The last one one found was one that size at One Potato Two in Canandaigua and i got it for like $60 if i recall correctly.

[Phillip Carr]

Here is the picture of the vice I posted earlier about. Pretty heavy I am guessing 80 lbs.

http://parkerguns.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=59798&stc=1&d=1516556625

[edgarspencer]

well- now I have to think about where i would put it if i get it

wondered through an antique store and in the back was a fair sized 249X 83 pound 4" jawed Parker vise - pretty rusty on the outside- but it ran in and out smooth - think i can pick it up for about 200- just need to find room for another vise

That would be a model 249. The X, often seen on all models, isn't part of the model number, but a number impressed by the molder, when he notices a broken piece of sand from the mold (Green sand molding is dry sand, water, bentonite clay and cereal flower. When the moisture in the molders pile of sand begins to dry out the remaining binders become somewhat brittle, and small bits, usually in an included pocket, can break off when the pattern is drawn out) This alerts the 'cleaning room' to look for a defect which might require additional grinding.
Your hard earned $200 might be better spent on something more rare, that a 'smith' might have had on his bench. Like..this https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Charles-Parker-2100-Bench-Vise/162840188783?hash=item25ea08176f:g:U90AAOSwpDdVOtD O

but what do I know?

[Bill Murphy]

Those babies with the separate thingy on the bottom may be rare, but they can break off if too much pressure is put on the bolt. I would rather bolt the vice to the bench. I have a broken example of the pictured vice that I would sell cheap to someone who could weld the bolt back in place.

[Dean Romig]

I can't imagine how the casting would break where the bolt is threaded into it....

It requires very little force to tighten it to the point where the vise will not rotate... I have one and use it all the time.





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[edgarspencer]

Those babies with the separate thingy on the bottom may be rare, but they can break off if too much pressure is put on the bolt. Horses for courses. I can break anything given a big enough hammer I have a broken example of the pictured vice that I would sell cheap to someone who could weld the bolt back in place. Put my name on it and PM me a price

[Bill Murphy]

Maybe we can touch base at Baltimore if you remind me before the show. By the way, the casting did not break. As I recall, the bolt broke.

[Dean Romig]

By the way, the casting did not break. As I recall, the bolt broke.

That's even more surprising than if the casting had broken.






.

[Bill Murphy]

Warranty??

[edgarspencer]

Warranty??Yes, Lifetime. Theirs, not yours

[Rick Losey]

next door to one of our favorite antique shops is a relatively new "antique" shop owned by a woodworker- mostly - he has tools. The last few trips, I have walked out of there with a few odds and ends and one nice woodworker's bench- not real old- but solid and a nice size to fill a gap - and it had an end and a side vise plus the bench dogs had not been lost

so- since i have been watching for one- I walked down his row of vises (might go back for the nice original vera vice) but for today - it was this #953 Parker vise with 3" jaws, in great condition at a reasonable price

so - a picture of my two Parker vises :corn:

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=588&pictureid=9824http://

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=588&pictureid=9825


plus some accessories, he said they were for another Parker vice he had already sold-that had a rounded top to the bar. I see the jaw caps in the Parker Story's reproduced vise catalog - but not the other pieces - any idea which vise they go to? its going to be a small one

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=588&pictureid=9826

[edgarspencer]

(might go back for the nice original vera vice)
Do you mean Versa Vise? A very handy piece of kit for woodworking, and boat building.

[Rick Losey]

yes- kant tipe

i have a couple of the new versions, one standard and one with the gunmaker's conversion

but another can't hurt

[ED J, MORGAN]

Last week I saw a parker vise in Watertown, Wisconsin at Clara's Antiques. 100 E Main St. 53094. Ph. 920-262-2007 It is a large vise, don't know the number.

[Rick Losey]

so- from my earlier post - does anyone recognize the metal parts that were with it- they do not go with the vise I got- but the seller said they did come with another Parker vise

the iron parts seem to be some sort of auxiliary jaws

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=588&pictureid=9878

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=588&pictureid=9877

[Dean Romig]

They look like pipe jaw inserts.





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[Rick Losey]

They look like pipe jaw inserts.

.

could be - there is a radius to the face - the vise's bar would need to have the curve on the top, wish i could have picked up the vise as well- looks like it would be a handy size

[edgarspencer]

The copper bits are soft jaws, the cast iron pieces are pipe jaws which fit over the stock, but not for a Parker vise.

[Bill Murphy]

Can anyone link us to the list of various Parker vises by number? I remember it, but can't find it now.

[edgarspencer]

It’s no longer listed on the web. The owner took it down.

[Bill Murphy]

Edgar, PM me your cell phone number. I have a couple vises in the car for Baltimore, including the one with the broken mounting bolt that you asked me to bring. I will PM my number. Kevin and I usually get to the show about 11:00 or 12:00 Friday.