Interested in starting to reload

[Brian Dudley]

I have been thinking about maybe getting into reloading my own shells.
I would mostly be interested in reloading shells to cut down on my skeet shooting expense in the long run.

Wondering what type of shells are best for reloading?
If I were to buy them to shoot once and save them for when I start reloading.

[Dave Suponski]

Brian, You will get alot of feedback here on this subject. But to start it off I like Remington hulls for my 12 gauge loads. Also I use the black Remington game load hull for 16 gauge. For 20 and 28 gauge I like to use Winchester hulls.

As far as reloading machines I use MEC exclusively. They can be found fairly inexpensively on EBay.

[Chuck Bishop]

I can't speak for the smaller gauges but for the 12, the best hull to reload is the Remington STS/Nitro hulls. I don't reload the Remington Gun Club hulls but they are popular too and less expensive.

[Frank Cronin]

Brian, ditto what Dave and Chuck have said about the MEC and Remington STS hulls. When I first got into reloading I bought a case of Remington STS to shoot skeet and clays with and save the hulls. Due to the factory loaded pressures, I did not want to risk shooting them my other doubles except for my Ithaca NID that would handle it no problem.

You can find once fired shells on Gunbroker which I go to when my case mouths start to get crispy and get thrown out. Saves me time instead of scrounging in buckets. The green STS are pretty available. The gold Nitros are there too but they go quick. You can get 500 once fired for about $40. This way you can reload low pressure right of the bat and you can use any shotgun you want.

[Brian Dudley]

Yeah, I primarily shoot 12g. I will keep an eye out for those or pic up a box to shoot here and there and start collecting hulls before I get a reloading machine. I am interested in reloading low pressure loads as well. I think that might be a better alternative to shooting RST loads. Are teh RST hulls good for reloading?

[Keith Parrish]

Never reloaded RST hulls but have heard great comments about their factory loads. Heck B. Dudley I'd say it's worth a try. I have learned you won't find a favorite until you try. Keep your pressures low and powder drops light and you will be fine.

I too work only with MEC reloaders and might add "look into the Super Sizer" for sizing your hulls.

As Dave said up top. You will get the best most honest info on this site and meet the best of the best in shotgun sports, life, and lessons, you will get info on Parker Doubles and new guns and the whole Shaaabangggg!!!!!! This is by far my favorite go to site for suggestions recommendations and just a nice time...

[Richard Flanders]

The Remington STS hulls are definitely the best place to start... and finish for that matter. They reload easily and crimp well. The plastic is more pliable than the Win AA hulls. I prefer STS over all others for 12ga target loads. For 20ga neither AA's or STS last more than a reload or two before splitting. Sometimes there is an issue with using winchester primers in STS hulls. They back out. You have to ream the primer holes with a tapered reamer. PITA. I think it mostly happens with 28ga hulls for some reason. Not sure it ever happens to me with 12ga.

[Mark Landskov]

The hulls used by RST, Polywad and Gamebore are Cheddites. At least, they have the same 'star-number' headstamp. The Cheddite hulls come in many configurations from .410 to 12, including 24 and 32. There is a lot of data out there for them. Maybe someone here can vouch for them. Cheers!

[Michael K. Burnley]

Hello Brian, I pretty much agree with the rest of the guys. I reload Remington STS,Nitro 27 and Gun Club in the 12 and 20ga. I reload Winchester AA in the 28ga and .410. Also for low pressure loads there are some good Federal hull loads. Enjoy and have fun shooting them.

[King Brown]

Some primers fit loosely in Cheddite hulls. I've forgotten which. I vouch for Cheddite hulls.

[Richard Flanders]

Anyone know if the Rio hulls are Cheddite? They do have the star-number headstamps. The BPI load data I got through Rio lists Rio-209 primers for all the loads as the primer holes are metric, meaning, they say, that American primers fit too loosely. The hulls are very nice, much like the old green ribbed Remington hulls - sturdy case, nice high brass. I like them and am going to reload them if I can get Rio primers sent to Alaska somehow.

[Dave Suponski]

Rich, I have reloaded Rios as an experiment using Cheddite recipes. Don't bother...they are junk.

[Paul Harm]

All the Remington hulls reload the same. At my club the "gun club" lay around everywhere. In the Remington 28ga, the plastic base goes over the primer hole a little so unless you use a Remington primer [ that is a skosh shorter ] you must run a drill through the primer hole to open up the plastic a little. For 12ga, most the guys at my club shoot 7/8 or even 3/4 oz in 12ga at 1200fps or lower. This makes a nice low pressure, low recoil load. Paul

[Brian Dudley]

Looking at buying a used MEC 600JR in set up in 12g. For around $100. Any concerns / limitations with this model?

[Dave Suponski]

Brian, Keep an eye on EBay. You should be able to score a 650 for $100.00 or so. Don't get me wrong the JR. is a great machine and I use them for 16,20 and 28 gauge. But for higher volume reloading ya can't beat a 650.

[Brian Dudley]

Well Ebay is where I found the Jr. that I speak of. I do not really intend on doing Large scale reloading persay. But I will keep my eye out for the 650s as well.

[Pete Lester]

Brian and Dave, my advice to someone starting out is to stick with a single stage press such as the MEC 600JR or an older out of production VersaMec. Both are relatively inexpensive, of course the more bars and bushings you want push the overall price up. They are great machines and will if cared for provide a lifetime of service. $100 is too high IMO, here is one that may sell for $40.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/mec-shotgun-press-/170745075093?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c1331595

I do not advise anyone new to reloading to start with a progressive reloader such as the MEC 650. When things go wrong, and they will, one must stop and think where each of the six shells is and what status they are in. The chance of double charging powder, crushing a wad with a wad, a double charge of shot spilling everywhere is quite high for the inexperienced and still happens to the best of us on occasion.

[Michael K. Burnley]

Brian, Pete is right. I started out with four 600jrs, But I shoot so much (6500 to 7000) rounds a year, shooting skeet, that I had to move up to something with more volume. I had to go to the 9000g loaders. Like Pete said every now and then you will goof. The only thing about the 600jr is you have to pull the handle 6 times to load 1 shell. It mainly comes down to how much you are going to shoot and how much you need to reload. The amount I was talking about shooting skeet doesn't include what I load to shoot in the side X sides. Also I like the Remington and Federal hulls in the 12ga. I usually get mine once fired on E-Bay. Make sure you ask the person selling the hulls if they are good clean hulls. I have gotten some that I had to throw half of them away. ( looked like they had been laid in the mud and run over with a tractor) If you keep an eye out you can get some good deals now and then. Good luck and have fun, Mike

[mike covington]

My vote is for a Sizemaster. Have them in 12, 16 & 20 ga. The hull resizing and primer setup are worth the few extra bucks. Also suggest a universal charge bar. I sold all my bars/bushings in favor of these due to the easy adjustments between powder/shot drops.

Anyone else using the CB4100 wad for 7/8 oz 12 loads? Recently started using this wad with Clays and really like this combo.

Mike

[Keith Parrish]

One more for the ease of a 600 I have moved to a 650 after one fell into my lap. I studied the machine and took careful time before running full throttle and have had acouple of squibs but luckly no double charges. I will weigh the drops very often even when on my 600.

I have changed my 600 to drop light loads for which I roll crimp. Not my 650 though that baby pushes out the shells in no time and can load about 75 in an hour thats weighing every 5 or so. Thats 3 good boxes for a nice afternoon of clays or squirels or crows what ever I may be craving.

My only problem is finding cheap shot... And time.

[Brian Dudley]

After doing a bit of research on the MEC Machines, I think that the 600 Jr. would be fine for me and how much reloading I would intend to do. One big plus about the 600 that I see is that if I want to do another machine, they say that dies are available so you can do them on the same machine. Whereas the 650 is only good for once guage only.

[Keith Parrish]

This is true. I love reloading period and whatever choice you make i'm sure it will be a fun time shooting the reloads you created. There is nothing like it.

The MEC people have some of the best service out there they really helped me getting my old reloader back in business.

Also Dave Suponski and the rest of the Parker Bretheren helped me out alot.

Thanks to them all!!!

[David Holes]

Reloading is fun, but make sure you have a scale to measure your powder drops. The only way to know for sure how much powder is dropping is with a scale. A little extra can be a big problem. Dave

[Pete Lester]

After doing a bit of research on the MEC Machines, I think that the 600 Jr. would be fine for me and how much reloading I would intend to do. One big plus about the 600 that I see is that if I want to do another machine, they say that dies are available so you can do them on the same machine. Whereas the 650 is only good for once guage only.

Brian the cost of additional set of dies to load another gauge will be near or more than the cost of a good sound used 600JR in the other gauge you want to load for. It is far more convenient and cost effective to have a separate machine ready go for each gauge.

[Dave Suponski]

I agree with Pete...I think I paid about $80.00 for my 16 gauge Mec Jr. $40.00 for the 20 gauge and I traded a bottle of Makers Mark for the 28 gauge....:rolleyes:

They all needed a little work but the cost was minimal.They are great machines.

[John Dallas]

Maker's Mark needed a little work? Hmmm

[Dave Suponski]

John, The Makers Mark was just fine the way it was......:rotf:

[Jack Kuzepski]

Brian,

I think you are making a smart choice in getting the 600 Jr. press. Before you buy you may want to look at an article I wrote in this reloading forum on the versatility of the MEC 600 Jr. for changing gauges and doing so quickly and inexpensively.

Jack Kuzepski

[Pete Lester]

I have been thinking about this short chamber 12ga issue a bit and I think it comes down to what is best and what you can get away with. IMO what is best is to use shells the same length as the chamber, preferably low pressure factory shells or reloads generating the pressures of shells in the period the gun was made. Another option is having the chamber's lengthened provided you have sufficient barrel wall thickness and shoot 2 3/4 shells. I know that is heresy but here is how it goes when you go to sell your gun; the potential buyer will use short chambers against you as a negative to get the price down, or they will use the lengthened chambers against you to get the price down. If the gun is a lower grade or has lost it orginality by a restock what is the harm? That decision is best made after the gun is classified as a shooter rather than an investment. What you can get away with is another matter, good sound Parkers can take heavy loads whether the barrels are composite or fluid steel. How many guns did Sherman Bell try to blow up and failed and how much pressure did it take to blow up a Dam GH and Vulcan Steel VH, near 32,000 psi. I choose to treat my guns kindly with lower pressure reloads, some of my guns had their chambers lengthen others not. They are all in tact and have suffered all their wear and tear by being taken out in the field not from shooting them with any load. Remember high pressure doesn't crack stocks, heavy recoil and loose stock screws crack stocks so I try to keep my use of heavy loads to a minimum and check each gun and tighten screws if needed. Good luck everyone.

[Daryl Corona]

Yes, the Makers Mark was just fine the way it was but alas it is now gone. Lasted all but a week. The MEC should last a lifetime.

[Dave Suponski]

Daryl, Maybe we should just pack another bottle when the stock ships down....:rotf:

[Daryl Corona]

Naah, one bottle of that fancy liquor is all my system can handle. Don't want to develop a drinking problem. Besides I've got to keep a clear head for the Southern and Ernie's what with all the 28's you'll be bringing. A little over 4 months to go and it could'nt come sooner.

[Brian Dudley]

Well I picked up a 600Jr. Mark V on Ebay. Pete actually turned me on to the auction. Thanks again!

Nice lightly used machine that included total of 3 charge bars and 8 powder bushings. Got is for $165 shipped.

I am excited to get the chance to reload my first shells.

[Pete Lester]

Well I picked up a 600Jr. Mark V on Ebay. Pete actually turned me on to the auction. Thanks again!

Nice lightly used machine that included total of 3 charge bars and 8 powder bushings. Got is for $165 shipped.

I am excited to get the chance to reload my first shells.

Congrats Brian, you are now going to start having some fun! I was hoping you would win (but a lower price of course):) When you fire your first reload, it is very satisfying, so is taking your first game with your own reloads. Some say reloading saves money, my theory is you shoot more shells for the same money spent :)

Here are some websites you should find useful:

Alliant Reloading Data Center: http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/index.aspx

Hodgdon/Dupont Data Center: http://data.hodgdon.com/shotshell_load.asp

MEC Bushing Chart: http://www.mecreloaders.com/documents/Miscellaneous/PowderBushingChart.pdf

Where to get MEC accessories and parts: http://www.mecreloaders.com/

[Brian Dudley]

Yeah, I was hoping to spend less money too, but I don't think I did too bad considering the condition and all the extras.

[Pete Lester]

Yeah, I was hoping to spend less money too, but I don't think I did too bad considering the condition and all the extras.

You did fine Brian, as I mentioned in my PM when I saw the auction, the bars and bushings retail for $70 plus (with no shipping) and you have a 6 point crimper and spare wad fingers. You are ready to go in wide range of loads. Wait until you see first hand how 7/8 ounce 12ga loads smash clay pigeons and how easy they are on the gun and shoulder. Reloading is really the way to go to control both pressure and recoil in vintage doubles.

[Daryl Corona]

Brian,
You'll drive yourself crazy with the bushings and the different charge bars. Do yourself a favor and buy an adjustable charge bar and you will be able to dial in exactly what charges you want to throw. Buy yourself a good scale- you'll need that no matter what kind of bar you use. Mec's bushing chart is not that accurate and it's not meant to be. I'm kind of a fanatic- if the load calls for 16.7gr., I want to throw 16.7gr. Take you time getting started and enjoy the fruits of your labor. Good luck, and as Pete says you will just love the way a 7/8oz. load smashes targets but not your gun. You will wonder why you ever needed an 1 1/8oz. load to break targets with.
Daryl

[Pete Lester]

Brian,
You'll drive yourself crazy with the bushings and the different charge bars. Do yourself a favor and buy an adjustable charge bar and you will be able to dial in exactly what charges you want to throw. Buy yourself a good scale- you'll need that no matter what kind of bar you use. Mec's bushing chart is not that accurate and it's not meant to be. I'm kind of a fanatic- if the load calls for 16.7gr., I want to throw 16.7gr. Take you time getting started and enjoy the fruits of your labor. Good luck, and as Pete says you will just love the way a 7/8oz. load smashes targets but not your gun. You will wonder why you ever needed an 1 1/8oz. load to break targets with.
Daryl

Different strokes for different folks. I have an adustable bar and seldom use it as I think it's a pain in the butt to adjust it everytime I want to change what I am loading. I think the MEC bars and bushings are the way to go and much more convenient for rapid change over from one load to the next. MEC bushings tend to throw on the light side but not with every powder, shot bars tend to throw light as well depending on shot size used and amount in antimony in the shot. I remind myself these are shotguns and not rifles, although a bit imprecise the MEC bushings/chart and MEC bars are close enough. A powder scale is quite useful and a good used beam scale can be had for very little money. Start slow Brian, pick a recipe or two, use the MEC bar and recommended bushing for the load and shoot away until you get used to the process, then you can venture out into the land of scales, adjustable bars, progressive reloaders, pattern boards etc. Have fun.

[Paul Harm]

I wouldn't be without an adjustable bar- have them for my 12ga 600 and my 650 in 12,20, and 28ga. You can get exact powder charges and I like to dial in the shot so it just fills the wad which is usually a bit light. You'll use less shot, get just as good a pattern because of less shot deformation, and have lower pressures. Most guys at my club load 12ga at 7/8oz for clays. I'm between 7/8 and 3/4oz [ maybe 3/4oz when I run out of CB-4100 wads and start useing CB-0178 wads] and have no problem keeping up with the hot shots. I like the adj. bar because you don't have to take bottles off to change bushings or bars. JMHI - Paul

[Paul Harm]

Daryl, because at my club we put in big orders we get reloading supplies for dealer cost [ Claybuster wads are $68/5000 ] and I've been useing the CB-4100 wad that is for 7/8 or 1oz of shot. I'm almost out and have 5000 of the CB-0178 wads and it's .060 higher in the cushion area than the 4100. Think I can try some 3/4oz loads and finally get a good crimp. In one of the shotgun magazines I read that Tim Woodhouse tried the 0178 wad with 3/4oz of shot and they worked great. Only problem was at skeet, the pattern was too tight and he had to use softer shot to open it up enough. He claimed he used skeet chokes at sporting clays and had plenty of choke. With only 3/4oz in the 12ga there is almost no shot deformation. This could be a fix for any of you guys with old SxSs with no choke - should give you about an IC. Still have a 1000 of the 4100s so it'll be a couple of weeks before I can try the 0178s. For a powder charge, I'll use what I do for 7/8oz and pick up some FPS. Let you know how it works out. Paul

[mike covington]

I agree with Paul on the universal charge bars & like them so much I sold all my bars/bushings. If you write down the settings you can easily return to a different load if you change.

Like Paul I have become enamored with the CB-4100 wad for 7/8 oz loads with Clays powder. Great load, soft shooting and burns really clean.

Mike

[Chuck Bishop]

Ditto what Paul and others have said about the adjustable charge bar. I've had it for so long I couldn't even guess what year I started using it. Remember that not only will shot weigh differently depending on the amount of antimony but powder of the same manufacturer will vary from lot to lot. Also remember to mix powder when opening a new bottle/jug. This is especially important if you use Promo.

[Paul Harm]

Why with Promo ? Some guys at my club use it and I'll make them aware of what you said. Paul

[Chuck Bishop]

Paul, it seems like the different components in Promo settle out. You can weigh a new lot without mixing, start using it, and when you get low in the jug, the weight changes. It's happened to me and others have commented on it on Trapshooters.com in the past. Also Promo seems to vary from lot to lot quite a bit more so than Clays or Clay dot.

Also, I've switched from Claybuster wads to Downrange wads. Years ago I had so much plastic in my chokes that you could peal the plastic with a knife blade after only a couple of hundred shots. They probably had a bad batch of plastic but it was enough to make me sour on Claybusters. Have you ever had your wad seating ram snap when the wad goes in? It's due to the dry plastic Claybuster uses. OEM wads don't do it and neither do Downrange wads. Only drawback with Downrange is that they don't have the distribution network that Claybusters have so you may have to have them shipped to you if a distributer isn't close by.

[Paul Harm]

Gee, I have about 6 Parkers and 5 Remingtons and none of them came with choke tubes :banghead: . Should I be looking for guns with them :). Na, I'll just keep what I got because I never seem to get any build up with fixed chokes. Never had a problem with my wad guide snaping. Had some Downrange wads but the pressure would have been too high with the load I was useing, so I just kept to my Claybusters. :bigbye: Paul

[Brian Dudley]

What Primers are you guys using or would recomend? Any particular types to stay away from?

[Daryl Corona]

Brian,
Right now I'm using Win 209.
Paul, Chuck,
I bought 10k Win. 12ga.SL wads[they are pink]. They work well for 1oz. but really shine for 7/8oz. as all the shot is enclosed in the shotcup and give truly amazing patterns. A good buddy of mine worked for a huge defense contractor here in MD and he had access to all kinds of testing equipment. 16.7gr. of clays, WWSL wad, WW209primer in either a AA, Rem, or Fiocchi hull at 1200fps gave 6700psi. When I run out I'll try the CB wads. On another note I've read with interest the various spreader wads that people use to open up their patterns. About 20yrs. or so ago I wrote Tom Roster a letter requesting some suggestions for opening up the patterns in some of my old tightly choked Parkers. He wrote back that the simplest method for opening up a pattern is to simply cut the petals off the wad allowing the shot to scrub the bore and slightly deform the pellets. Using high antimony shot I've used this method very successively since. You don't need to cut all the petal off to the base- about 1/3 removal works well for me but you can experiment to see what patterns best for your gun. I considered then and now, Tom Roster to be the eminent authority in reloading. I will try and find his letter and post it.
Daryl

[Pete Lester]

What Primers are you guys using or would recomend? Any particular types to stay away from?

Brian around here the best deal is the Fiocchi 616 (209 type). Not only the least expensive they generally provide lower pressures with the same load over other primers. HOWEVER, once you use the Fio's you have to keep using them as they are slightly oversize and stretch out the primer hole. If you use another primer after the Fio's your primers will fall out.

[Dave Suponski]

I just stick to using Winchester primers as they are the easiest to get around here. I will use Remington STS and Winchester interchangebly but the STS primers are a little pricey.

[Frank Cronin]

Brian,

Best advice to someone new to reloading is to make sure you follow the recipes exactly - hull manufacturer+ primer+powder weight+ shot weight.

I always refer to the powder companies reloading data since it is more current. http://www.hodgdon.com/basic-manual-inquiry.html

In a previous thread, you were thinking of using Remington STS's. A very good hull that I've had a lot of great results with.

Begin with the STS hull as a starting point and go to the link and start inputting information from the pull down menus and you can see how the different load combinations with different components effect velocity and PSI.

My load for skeet, trap, clays for my old doubles:

1 oz. Lead Shot
Rem. 209P primer
Clay Buster 1100-12 wad
23 grains of IMR SR 7625 powder
5,100 PSI
1150 velocity

Here you will see Winchester and Remington primers have the best loads for low PSI but Federals are higher. Federals are generally a hotter primer = higher pressures.

[Paul Harm]

Most primers have about the same pressures. Cheddite, Win, Fiocchi and Rem. are all about the same, within a hundred or two for pressure. The Federal are usually quite a bit hotter. Crimp depth has a greater effect on pressure. Factory shells have about .050 to .060 and that is what is used for reloading data. Going down to .020 or up to .080 will change pressures by 1 to 2000psi. Paul

[John Dallas]

Tom Armbrust's tests show higher variation than 100 PSI
http://www.armbrust.acf2.org/primersubs.htm

[Paul Harm]

My statement was too general. Tom has listed more primers than I knew about or generally see for sale. Looking at my IMR handbook, only the Fed 209A primer gives a much higher pressure than the Win 209 or Rem 209P. From the Claybuster wad guide the Cheddite is about the same as Win. I believe the Fiocchi is the same as Win. I couldn't find any load data for some of the primers Tom listed. So yes, there can be more variation and one should check first. Paul

[charlie cleveland]

have seen some loads listed bypeople who are very good at ballastic and pressure testing and some of the loads with same primers powder shot and wads hulls etc...would give pressures as much as 1000 difference in pressure..and these loads were loaded up at the same time with identical every thing.... charlie