What grade of guns did the engravers sign?

[Jeff Bonadurer]

***Maybe should be moved to the "Engraving and Engravers" forum thread*** sorry.

Hi All,
Just curious which grades or if all grades were signed by the engraver.
For example if a grade 3 or DH was signed, where and what would I look for?
Thanks for your time and happy shooting.

Best regards,

Jeff

[Bruce Day]

xxxx

[Bill Murphy]

AA Grades signed on the trigger plate at the trigger guard attachment point have been seen. The signature is hidden by the trigger guard.

[John Havard]

As I recall, according to the Parker books of all knowledge only a few D-grade guns were engraved by a well-known engraver in the '30's (again, as I recall). I don't remember his name but his D-grade embellishments were quite different from the norm. Otherwise my understanding is that grades below AA or higher were rarely if ever signed. In fact, it was not permitted for an engraver to sign his work (again) if I recall. The scroll work was done by the less-capable and the setters & pointers on D-grades were done by the higher-ranking engravers in house. But again, no signatures.

[Dean Romig]

John, that's about right on most points.

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." is a quotation often repeated by my mother as I was growing up and I'll have to agree. Each engraver has his or her own style and, in my humble opinion, there are some dogs and birds engraved on D-grade and above Parkers that should have been left to an apprentice or journeyman engraver who was capable of executing some very fine arabesque and scroll engraving. What I'm trying to say here is that there were a couple of master engravers who's work I don't particularly care for... but that's just my taste. Like my Mother used to say, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

[Jeff Bonadurer]

Thanks Guys,
I am amazed how the engraving can be executed by hand with such exacting detail. It seems like
with other art forms the artists usually sign their work. If I had spent all the
time working / finishing a receiver so beautifully I would want to sign it, or intitial it.
Thanks for all the info.

Best regards,

Jeff

[Dean Romig]

It strikes me as a bit odd that several of the other artisans who worked on these guns marked them with their initials or special stamp but the engravers were not allowed to do so.

[Brian Dudley]

A local Parker collector, whom some of his collection was used as reference for The Parker Story, was telling me of one particular engraver (can't recall the name) that marked his work on C grade and higher Parkers. A lot of the time he would insert his initials, very stylized, into the engraving border at the corners of the trigger plates on either side of the guard.

[Bruce Day]

....one particular engraver (can't recall the name) that marked his work on C grade and higher Parkers. A lot of the time he would insert his initials, very stylized, into the engraving border at the corners of the trigger plates on either side of the guard.


A photo, please.

[Robert Rzepiela]

Maybe it was a learning process for the company to allow initials or signatures. Pretty sure company would learn quickly that employees/contractors come and go while you (as owner) are trying to preserve the brand and reputation. Plus it would be really free advertisement for the people doing the work which may not be in your best interest.

[Brian Dudley]

That might be why some engravers, as I had mentioned, would hide their initials very small in parts of the engraving.
I can't post pictures of a gun that I don't own. That information came from a local collector, John Batsold.

[Jim Thynne]

I have seen only 3 Parkers that were signed. These were very early AA grade guns and all three guns were signed by Gough.
I have heard stories of others, but to sign the engraving was a no-no for Parker engravers.
Gough signed the AA grade guns just forward of the trigger guard, and you must look closely to find it, or remove the guard itself. There were themes on some guns that seemed to follow certain engravers styles.

[calvin humburg]

Dean, I would like to see an example of engraving you don't care for. I'm inpressed that there is guys out there that can tell one from another and envious that they have got to handle enough Parkers so they could learn the diff. And I'm not impressed easy "O look a blue car"!!!

[Patrick Lien]

I have seen only 3 Parkers that were signed. These were very early AA grade guns and all three guns were signed by Gough.
I have heard stories of others, but to sign the engraving was a no-no for Parker engravers.
Gough signed the AA grade guns just forward of the trigger guard, and you must look closely to find it, or remove the guard itself. There were themes on some guns that seemed to follow certain engravers styles.

This one was signed in the open by H. Gough on the floor plate. It is an 1889 AH gun.

Patrick

http://myweb.cableone.net/plien/pictures/a6.jpg

[Ray Masciarella]

A few very early AH's were signed, ie circa 1889-1890? At the time they were the highest grade. I know of only one, but there may be others. Ray

[Jim Thynne]

Any signed Parker is indeed a rare gun.
This is a good time to say hello to Don Kaas........HOWDY DON!!!

[Dean Romig]

Calvin, let me say once again that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and that I mean no harm nor do I intend to discredit anyone's Parker but I find no artistic talent or imagination in the dogs or birds engraved by Frederick Anschutz.

Again, this is just personal preference...

[Ray Masciarella]

Patrick, what is the sn of that AH? Other AH's signed by Gough were 59517 and 67974 and 56753. Ray

[Patrick Lien]

Patrick, what is the sn of that AH? Other AH's signed by Gough were 59517 and 67974 and 56753. Ray

Ray,

My gun is 58911.

Patrick

[Ray Masciarella]

Patrick

Is it on the floor plate or above it on the bottom of the frame just below the foreend?

It seems the guns that were signed weren't always signed in a particular location. I have seen AH's signed on floor plate and TG. I know of AAH signed under TG where it can't be seen w/o removing it.

Ray

[Bill Murphy]

I believe that under the trigger guard is the most common location unless we just haven't been looking close enough, a good possibility. Those of you lucky enough to own A and AA Grade guns should give them a closer look.