Economic Stimulus

[Rich Anderson]

As we all know to well the economy of our great nation is in the toilet and the handel is about to be pushed sending us further into a state of disrepair.

As American gun owners we can and should do all we can by buying more guns...we might need them later to defend what we own:eek: How do we accomplish this what with declining 401K's, job loss, reduced market value of our homes and a weakening dollar? I have studied the art of buying guns with O.P.M, Other Peoples Money and it's really quite simple and effective.

Trade that Dh 12 for a light VH 20. You will benefit several ways. A) The 20 will be lighter so when you making your way back to the truck after a long day in the field and that Rooster Pheasant or Grouse rockets away you won't be to tired to bring the gun up and put dinner on the table. B) As the 20 is lighter you will hunt longer therefor getting more excersise and reduce the chance of heart attack and stroke. C) The 20 will appreciate faster than a 12 in all likelyhood.

Take some of the equity in your home (while you still have some) and purchase that nice VHE 28 or a high grade 12 that youve lusted after but never thought you could afford. All this providing you can make the equity loan payments of which the interest is deductible. That money is just sitting there making nothing, put some to good use and enjoy the gun. You'll like it and our economy benefits. Tell the wife your doing it for the good of the country.

I get several 0% credit card offers in the mail each month and I throw them away...untill I find something I need/ want. A nice DHE 20 came my way using this method recently. The offer was 0% for 21 months. I take the ballance and divide it by 18 and the debt is paid for early. This boosts my credit rateing, gets me the gun now, stimulates the economy and the payments are spread over a comfortable time frame.

Think out of the box. I once had a GSP bred and the puppies helped fund a trip to Alaska. Gunner is a result of that effort and he has been a wonderfull companion for 14 years. I have also sold my blood to help fund a gun purchase. It took only a couple of hours early in the am 2x/week and gave me an extra couple hundred dollars a month which paid the home equity loan. My net out of pocket expense for that gun was $0.00.

My wife tells me I have to much "stuff" but IMHO all my stuff is valuable. We all have stuff that we arn't using. Reposition that stuff into a nice Parker, Winchester, L.C. Smith or a piece of Antique furniture if you so desire. Sell the coin collection, old shell boxes a limited edition book that you have already read twice and put those funds back into circulation.

I have robbed Peter to pay Paul then mugged Paul to put the desired item into my posession and never regretted it. Once you get the feel of buying your treasured item using the O.P.M. method the rest as they say is history.

Good luck, the country thanks you. Let me know how that new 20 works out for you.:cheers:

[Bill Murphy]

Rich is correct. I have bought some of my best guns when I had no money.

[Ed Blake]

Using OPM is how we got in this mess. That's why our ObamaBushbucks ain't worth $hit.

[Bruce Day]

Maybe its just me, but these Parkers are want items, not need, and I would never go in debt, not even credit card debt, to buy a want item. I bought a gun once that was more than the cash I had on hand and had to draw down a money market account, and was uneasy until I replaced the account money.

I started with my grandfather's Mod 1912 12ga and his PHE 16, it got him through and still today they get me through, and everything else is pure discretionary income and I don't like debt of any kind. I don't even buy cars with loans.

[Linn Matthews]

Good for you, Bruce. Others not so fortunate have to find other ways

[Bruce Day]

Its not an issue of being fortunate, more like being cautious and frugal. Maybe I have some nice things now because I never went into debt. I have friends who are bankers and I'll buy them lunch but regardless of how nice a person they are, I don't want to buy them new office buildings. My newest vehicle is a 94 and I figure its got another 250,000 miles in it. I bought one new car on payments once and it taught me a lesson what with the monthly payments and paying almost 50% more again for the interest by the time you finish. Yes, I know its not the American way, but its what has pushed us into this position as a country and as individuals. Debt is like a sword hanging over your head.

[Rich Anderson]

As Clint Eastwood said "A mans got to know his limitations" and I have never missed a payment of any kind in my life. A money mkt account paying less than 1% vs an appreciating asset like a Parker IMHO is a no brainer. The gun will outperform the money mkt. For me I like my new DHE 20 and the 20mos or so of payments I can handle. The net cost was $160 in fees. I can't hunt birds in the fall with a money mkt account.

[Pete Lester]

"We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt.
We must make our election between economy and liberty
or profusion and servitude.
If we run into such debt, as that we must be taxed in our meat and
in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and
our amusements, for our calling and our creeds...we will have no time to think,
no means of calling our miss-managers to account
but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves
to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow-sufferers...
And this is the tendency of all human governments.
A departure from principle in one instance
becomes a precedent for another
till the bulk of society is reduced to be mere automatons of misery.
And the fore-horse of this frightful team is public debt.
Taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression."

Thomas Jefferson

What would TJ think of the USA today?

[Bruce Day]

Rich, you are a braver man than me, but then you have 2 or 3 times the handful of Parkers I own.

I guess I can hunt birds in the fall with grandfather's old P, and I have a few others to boot. I even have a small selection now and I need to figure out a way that I can use more than one at a time.


"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work instead of living on public assistance."

Cicero- 55 BC

[Pete Lester]

Rich, you are a braver man than me, but then you have 2 or 3 times the handful of Parkers I own.


"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work instead of living on public assistance."

Cicero- 55 BC

The above has been embellished, what Cicero actually said was:

"The arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and assistance to foreign hands should be curtailed, lest Rome fall."

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/c/cicero-plan.htm

[Bruce Day]

Well well. A banker buddy sent that to me. Thanks for setting me straight. Maybe I should have checked it first.

But anyway, I have no fear. Our spokesmodel in Washington will, like Moses, lead us out of debt, fear and bondage. We only have to have faith in hope and change.

[greg conomos]

"He that doth get wench with child then take her as his wife is no better than he who would cr*p in his own hat then clap it atop his head."

Samuel Pepys, 1661

[Rich Anderson]

With the exception of one ill fated year I have always worked on a straight commission basis, no work no sell no paycheck. I have to save during the up times to fund for the down times. By being creative within my self imposed limitations I can hold on to my money and take advantage of the other avenues that are out there. I would much rather use a 0% credit card offer for 20 months for a Parker or anything else for that matter than to dig into saveings that might be needed for bills if I can't work. IF that should happen the gun is a liquid asset.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

All my guns were bought when I had no money, because I never have any. But I've still got some pretty nice ones. I just bought my Dad a Winchester Model 21 when I really had no money, but I just sent off a payment this morning none the less. Being an old bachelor helps, also the fact that I can get by on about 3 hours sleep a night so I've got more time for hustling and working than normal humans.

Destry

[John Truitt]

Mr. Lester,

That is a great quote by TJ.

Thank you for sharing.

Very, very appropriate.

Thanks again,

John

[Bruce Day]

Rich, I called my banker buddy in Ste. Genevieve and proposed a deal to him where he would lend me up to $10,000 at 0% for up to 60months. I thought it would be a good deal because the bank was just sitting on all that money. That darn buddy of mine , his response was just not nice. So his deal lost may be another's gain and I'll take applications for this loan from any other bankers out there.

[Ed Blake]

When I opened the mail tonight there was a 0% interest credit card application from Bank America in the stack. Yesterday their stock price per share was less than the cost of my lunch.

[Mark Vollinger]

Using OPM is how we got in this mess. That's why our ObamaBushbucks ain't worth $hit.

Ed,
Have a look at the clip. It will make you laugh and cringe. You can see critters like "The Goldman Sachs, The Bernanke and "the Moody's" while we are artfully distracted.........

It seems to be working.....

[Rich Anderson]

Bruce I went to my local bank where I have done business for over 20 years to borrow $10,000.00 to finish off my basement about two years ago. They wanted something like 10% for an unsecured loan and 8% if I put up my truck (which is paid for) as collateral. They pay .3% on my high interest saveings. I could use the saveings as collateral and get the rate down some but then that would tie up that account which is my emergency fund. I told them John Dillinger went to prison for robbery. I used a 0% credit card offer and paid a 4% fee on the cash advance. The net cost of the loan $400 and was paid off in the alloted time.

If I can benefit from using O.P.M. and not put my financial security in jeporady than why not? It was easier and more afforable to make those 12 or so payments than to use my own hard earned cash dollars. I bet that if you used a 0% offer bought a Parker flipped it and paid off the debt a person could make money.....Hmmmmm...there might be something to this:whistle:

[Francis Morin]

[quote=greg conomos;48000]"He that doth get wench with child then take her as his wife is no better than he who would cr*p in his own hat then clap it atop his head." Hot babe Carole Lombard had just met the great (In his opinion anyway) ladies man- Wm. Clark Gable- he takes her out to the Brown Derby (or Doibby for you Joisey guyz) and brings her back to his place- after a few more drinks he said "Why don't you slip into the bedroom and get undressed, Baby"-- and she snaps right back at him "And why don't you just crap in your fedora, Mister"--:corn::corn:

[Francis Morin]

It is entitled "The Millionaire Next Door" and details the debt free and frugal lifestyle both Bruce and I were raised with- My Ford truck is a 97- 180,000 miles and runs like a Rolex-- It is my fourth Ford Ranger, all went 250,000 and then I traded them for another used one and wrote a check- no mortgage,. no car loans, I only have one credit card- it is a Exxon-Mobil card I got as a stockholder years ago- use it only for emergencies, even when I have the cash and gas was $.00 gallon--

I only buy "using guns" I can afford for cash outright- sure a 20 DHE or a 28 GHE would be fine 'investments" and with care, you can have your cake and nibble it too- I recently bought two 1912-1915 era Ithaca Flues Grade 1 DT extractor guns- a 20 and an 28- for about what a VH 12 with 30" barrels is going for on the "over-inflated" auction sites-- They are light, well balanced, have good stock dims, and the trigger pulls are sweet and crisp-

As far as bankers are concerned- my Granddad (who left me his Parkers and the hammer Purdey (wish I had kept that Purdey) always told me: "A banker will gladly loan you his umbrella on a sunny day without interest, but when it starts to rain, he'll charge you a plenty" A tough but wise Irishman, like old Joseph P. Kennedy- he predicted the big crash of Oct 1929 and the banks folding like leaves in the wind- he kept payroll cash in his big iron box Diebold safe at his machine shop (and paid off the beat cop- a brother irishman, go figure that- an irish cop) for night patrols on tough Canal Street- and went through the Depression with 35K in gold back bills in a fireproof strong box buried in the basement of their big home on Linden St.-- a cautious man, taught me to never buy "on the credit" but to use- CIF instead-- Cash In Fist-- You can't make much of a meal out of a AHE 16 quail gun if the bottom folds- you can use it to shoot the wolf at the door-:cool::cool:

[Kenny Graft]

I would not have the speacial Parkers and Parker repro's with out short term CC loans. 0% with a small check fee is do-able. This also gives me time to sell and pay back with other guns when I upgrade....Its a win/win for me...SXS ohio...(-:

[greg conomos]

Joseph Kennedy was a big supporter of Hitler, and a big womanizer, so I have a hard time thinking of him as 'wise'.

It's fine to drive an old car and live frugally - which is what I generally do - but like all things you need to exert some judgment into the process. It doesn't do a lot of good if you live an austere lifestyle and die with millions of dollars that get blown by your bratty nephew in Rhode Island.

[King Brown]

This thread is a pretty good picture of the solution. One size does not fit all. Debt of itself is not a problem. It's having the resources, the will and discipline, a rational plan to pare/eliminate it over a reasonable period of time.

[Eric Eis]

Joseph Kennedy was a big supporter of Hitler, and a big womanizer, so I have a hard time thinking of him as 'wise'.

It's fine to drive an old car and live frugally - which is what I generally do - but like all things you need to exert some judgment into the process. It doesn't do a lot of good if you live an austere lifestyle and die with millions of dollars that get blown by your bratty nephew in Rhode Island.

But he was a Damn Fine Bootlegger..... :corn:

[Francis Morin]

Joseph Kennedy was a big supporter of Hitler, and a big womanizer, so I have a hard time thinking of him as 'wise'.

It's fine to drive an old car and live frugally - which is what I generally do - but like all things you need to exert some judgment into the process. It doesn't do a lot of good if you live an austere lifestyle and die with millions of dollars that get blown by your bratty nephew in Rhode Island. Joseph P. Kennedy, Henry Ford, Charles Lindberg- all endorsed "Herr Hitler" , Kennedy and Ford were rabid anti-Semitics, as was Hitler, Himmler, Heydrich, Goring and Goebbels- Kennedy was a master thief, con-man, married the Boston mayor's daughter Rose- who bore him nine children (most of them died a in a tragedy) openly flaunted his affairs with Gloria Swanson and other Hollywood stars, made his illegal millions as a rum-runner during Prohibition, bought one son the Presidency with the Daley machine in Chicago, bailed out with hush money the Kopcheny (sic) family after his gutless Senator playboy son left her to drown- but his greatest sin, IMO- was having a daughter lobomotized at Mayo without consulting with his wife- talk about ego--I only mentioned Joe in my analysis as he was mentioned in that book- I'm Irish Catholic, but have never revered the Kennedys--

[Bruce Day]

Francis.... Kennedy, Ford and Lindberg repudiated their early public admiration of Hitler after Hitler's policies became clear and unveiled. Ford publicly apologized for his early anti-Semitism and mended ways with Jewish organizations. Lindberg said he had been misled by Hitler. I don't know enough about Kennedy to comment. All three helped in the US war effort and Kennedy's oldest son was killed over Germany. Just a little perspective on people who tried to mend early mistakes.

[Francis Morin]

Francis.... Kennedy, Ford and Lindberg repudiated their early public admiration of Hitler after Hitler's policies became clear and unveiled. Ford publicly apologized for his early anti-Semitism and mended ways with Jewish organizations. Lindberg said he had been misled by Hitler. I don't know enough about Kennedy to comment. All three helped in the US war effort and Kennedy's oldest son was killed over Germany. Just a little perspective on people who tried to mend early mistakes.-- Ever read his newspaper "The Dearborn Independent"?? Ever hear of Orville Hubbard, the racist Mayor of WASP-y Dearborn? A "Fatty Arbuckle look-alive" he was Ford's stooge-no Jews or Blacks EVER lived in Dearborn back then-- Kennedy was a con-man who dominated his wife and family with his ego and rage for power- yes Joe Jr. died on a tragic and unneeded USAAF mission, and Jack did save some of his crew on PT 109--But Joe Sr. was a bound and determined man, he wanted to re-live his life only on a grander scale, through his sons- his daughters, as long as they married well to do Catholics, he mainly ignored- and he taught his sons by example to cheat on their wives, as he did on Rose-

Charles Lindbergh was Goring favorite American visitor, until 7/Dec/1941- Lindbergh flew combat missions in the Pacific- he refused to fly in the European TO, as he was from German stock (Lindberg- beautiful or fair- town or city-literal translation Auf Deutsch, meinen fleiger fruend--

:cool::cool::cool::bigbye:

[greg conomos]

It's a tricky thing to get your hands around....on one hand they made amends, but on the other hand did they make amends because they believed in the cause or because it was a political necessity?

I'm reminded of how Richard Nixon won by a landslide, but after Watergate you couldn't find anyone who voted for him.

[Francis Morin]

Nixon told the American people our troops were NOT in Loas or Cambodia-- one of my best friends from HS was in 5th SF Airborne on a "Company business trip" he was never found after his team vanished in Cambodia- Nixon lied about that and Watergate-He ranks with Warren G. Harding as one of the biggest "con men' to ever occupy the Oval Office--

Henry Ford I and his sons all examplify the "Cojones Grande De laton" concept that says "If your last name is one the bldg. you can do whatever the *&^% you want" Sam Insul, Andrew Carnegie, Henry Frick, J. Pierpont "Da Nose" Morgan, the Mellons and Rothschilds- all the Robber Barons were bigots in one way or another, or darn close-- You want to know how that Big Brass Ballz concept continues- the current Ford (Hank III) the head Fred of Ford- his family owns a big fishing retreat- on Michigan's Pigeon River- Vanderbilt area- sinc e1928 when Top Taggart tried to dam up his private stretch of the Pine River and was taken to Court and lost- we have the rule of the river- if an 8" log can float, it is open to all- But the Fords petitioned and even tried to bribe the DNR to close off the section of the public accessible Pigeon River that went by their vacation property- they didn't want the "Red neck canoists looking at their lawn" was the story I heard- The DNR turned them down cold-- money and power corrupt people- Nixon was just 'small potatoes" in the scheme of things- I

[Rich Anderson]

Boy did this take a weird turn...but political offices are bought with O.P.M.:whistle: