Tell me about my Parker Hammergun

[Leighton Stallones]

I have a ten gauge Hammergun marked 3081B
on the Watertable. It seems more deluxe that the regular
lowest grade and I thought it was a deluxe model called a B grade.
Someone tells me that it is not a B grade, so now I am confused.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/DSC_00021.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/DSC_00013.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/DSC_00086.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/DSC_0002-1.JPG

[Jeff Kuss]

I believe that the number you are referring to is the order number, not the serial number. Early guns were stamped with both. Nice gun, but not a B grade. That gun is early enough to be a dollar grade gun.

[Austin W Hogan]

I believe that the number you are referring to is the order number, not the serial number. Early guns were stamped with both. Nice gun, but not a B grade. That gun is early enough to be a dollar grade gun.

Several $135 grade guns have a similar fore end checking pattern.

best, Austin

[Dean Romig]

By the later numbered grades yours might have been identified as a Grade 2.

[calvin humburg]

Nice hammer gun! When did they start sculpting the fences? ch

[Leighton Stallones]

I found an early 1880's price list in Baers Vol 2, pg 137. I now believe it is a grade F, $80.00 grade.
Mystery may be solved,

Thanks,

[Bill Murphy]

Dean, even though the pictured gun is not highly decorated, it would be higher than a Grade 2 in some eras. Very early guns were sparcely engraved compared to later ones. OOPS, misread the serial number and deleted my incorrect statement.

[Leighton Stallones]

Bill,
The serial number is actually 3081

[Mark Landskov]

Calvin, my 1879 Grade 2 in 10 gauge has sculpted fences.

[Dean Romig]

Dean, even though the pictured gun is not highly decorated, it would be higher than a Grade 2 in some eras. Very early guns were sparcely engraved compared to later ones. OOPS, misread the serial number and deleted my incorrect statement.

I did read your original post Bill, and you are correct, early Parkers are often difficult to assign number grade or dollar grade to. In the later numbered/lettered grades the Grade 2 is the lowest grade to have Damascus barrels but in the earlier dollar grade era Damascus barrels are seen on lower grades. One needs to take into account the barrel steel, level of engraving, checkering patterns, sculpting of fences, among other features to make an educated attempt at assigning grade.

I'm going to take another look at the pictures I took of the John Hanson gun this evening and take a look at it in TPS to see if any of the authors assigned a grade to it.

[Robin Lewis]

Leighton,

What is the barrel rib inscription? Does it say Damascus or Laminated or something else?

[George Lander]

Leighton: I have SN 3481 and it looks identical to yours. The book says that it is a Grade T 12 ga. w/ 30 inch barrels marked "STUB TWIST" on the top rib. BTW the book says yours (SN3081) is a Grade L 12 ga. w/ 28 inch barrels.

Best Regards, George

[Robin Lewis]

Yep, that is why I asked about the barrel inscription, he has a 10 ga and the "book" has had errors. The inscription my help to ID the actual grade?

[Bill Murphy]

The T and the L are not grades. Those letters refer to Twist Steel and Laminated Steel. The Serialization Book does not identify grades in early guns except by barrel steel.

[Dean Romig]

The John Hanson gun, B2505, pictured on page 234 of The Parker Story, is identified as "seems to be the $135 grade on the 1872 price list." has Damascus Steel barrels and is shown here as well from the pictures I took while dave Suponski and I visited with John in January of 2010.

Adding more mystery to early Parkers and their grading is on pg. 238 of TPS as Parker no. 4311 identified by the authors as "has Laminated Steel barrels and must be the top grade gun priced at $250 on the 1872 price list."
Oddly, later on when Parker Bros were using the number/letter grade we find that Damascus Steel barrels were used only from Grade 2 and up while Grade 1 guns sported Laminated Steel barrels and Grade 0 guns had Twist. One exception to this that we have noted is the "English Laminated" barrels have been observed on later lifter hammer gun higher grades such as Grade 4.
It is all pretty intense and difficult to nail down grades and the features which represent the grades. As has been stated before, 'sometimes the only way to grade an early Parker is by the price charged for a particular gun as noted in the books... and sometimes that is not good enough to make a clear identification as some guns were discounted and the 'list price" was not always noted but simply the sell price.'

[Dean Romig]

Frank Cronin - what dollar grade value has been assigned to your wonderful early Parker?

[Leighton Stallones]

The barrel is inscribed damascus and it appears to be three bar damascus

[Tony Quinn]

Nice gun, Leighton. Is this new to the collection, or one I have seen?

Tony

[Frank Cronin]

Frank Cronin - what dollar grade value has been assigned to your wonderful early Parker?

Dean, the research letter from Mark stated since it had Twist barrels it was either a grade 0 or grade 1. No dollar grade value designation was reported in the research letter. Austin Hogan who has seen the gun when at the Major Waldron shoot commented the serial numbers in the pre 5000 range had a nice selection of wood and though it is difficult to grade early guns he thought it may be a grade 1 since it did have some engraving.

As dollar grade value, I found this 1874 Parker price list. I am not sure if this document is the correct criteria to designate the appropriate dollar grade to my Parker. According to this it was a $75 dollar (reduced price) or a $110 (old price) since the lower grade 12 gauge ($60) had no checkering or engraving.

[Dean Romig]

Thanks Frank. That is one very special Parker!

[Dave Purnell]

Frank,
Will you share the serial number of your gun with us. I have a twelve gauge serial number 4054 which is identical to yours in all details except condition. 4054 isn't nearly as pretty, but I like it. My barrels are "Stub Twist", which I'm thinking are what is referred to as "Fine English Twist" on the 1874 price list. According to that description I always thought it was a $75.00 gun. Are your barrels marked Twist or Stub Twist?

Dave

[Frank Cronin]

Dave,

Ser. # 4071 completed April 6, 1874. Stub twist two barrel set. Maybe we both have 110 dollar grade guns since they were made before this May 1st price change?

[George Lander]

If I am not mistaken Stub Twist Parker barrels were forged from discarded horseshoe nails

Best Regards, George

[Dave Purnell]

Frank,

Thanks, that is very interesting, but confusing. My letter states that 4054 was completed October 28, 1875. So, what does that mean?


George,

That is my understanding too. Do you know what Decarbonized Steel was? Goes to show, those Parker Boys could sell anything.

Dave

[Bruce Day]

I'm no expert on the history of steel metallurgy, but I remember Muderlak in one of his books had quite a bit on the transition from cast iron barrels, which had carbon occlusions, to modern compressed fluid steel barrels, like the famous Whitworth barrels. Damascus barrels were a way to beat out the carbon occlusions and minute air pockets and provide a thinner and stronger metal composition until fluid compressed steel with moly, chromium,( Cro-Moly) and various additives came along. Kind of a fascinating subject in itself. In the late 1800's there were various metal manufacturers and various processes, each claiming to be superior, so its understandable that Parker and other gun barrel users were listening to the vendors and using various barrel steels.

I've been fascinated by the Parker penchant for using various barrel steels, Vulcan, Acme, Titanic, etc, and why they did that. We know that Parker and all the gun makers were approached by the barrel vendors who each claimed to have the superior product ( secret formula of course) and each of whom claimed that they had solved barrel bursting problems. Interesting issues, and as Muderlak pointed out, we never had reliable engines for automobiles and airplanes until the metallurgy issues were solved. Considering as how I had to replace a prematurely worn camshaft on an engine a few years ago, maybe those issues are still not fixed.