Pattern Results

[Brett Trimble]

This is from a M42 Winchester with full choke at 30yds exactly. The shell was a Challenger 11/16oz of no 8 shot. The paper measures 34in wide and 36in tall.

The bird is a large white wing dove.

What are your thoughts about this pattern?

Best,
Brett

[Dave Noreen]

My mentor when I started shooting skeet in the Navy circa 1971, Chief Buntrock, of the notable 1968 Heffron/Buntrock shoot-off at the NSSA World Shoot, said "never pattern a .410 it will make you crazy."

[Brett Trimble]

Dave,

Great advice.. unfortunately the cat’s out of the bag. :)

I’m kind of perplexed by the pattern.. but when it goes bang, doves do tend to fall out of the air..

[Daniel Carter]

Dave,

Great advice.. unfortunately the cat’s out of the bag. :)

I’m kind of perplexed by the pattern.. but when it goes bang, doves do tend to fall out of the air..

You said it all in that they tend to fall. Patterning on paper is ok but it gives a 2 dimensional view that can mislead. Follow up patterns do not duplicate the others.You may not see one like that again not to say but some better some worse. If it kills is all you need.

[William Machauer]

I'm of the opinion that FULL is too much choke. Mod is more than enough choke , less flyers and better patterns.
I heard someone call FULL choke in 410 refer to the pattern as Three Stooges effect- all that shot trying to get out the muzzle all at once is like Larry,Moe and Curly going through a door.

That being said, before the non toxic shot laws I used to shoot my High Standard Flite King 410 skeet choked with 3" #5s and kill ducks with more frequency than you would think possible.
Now I shoot a CZ Ringneck 410 choked IC/Mod for pheasant,chukar,quail,huns and 3" 7.5s and it kills just as dead as my Parker 20. Actually I've shot heads off with the 410 than my 20 or 28s.
Of course I am shooting over pointing dogs so shots are mostly close but I don't feel under-gunned.

[Stan Hillis]

I'm of the opinion that FULL is too much choke. Mod is more than enough choke , less flyers and better patterns.
I heard someone call FULL choke in 410 refer to the pattern as Three Stooges effect- all that shot trying to get out the muzzle all at once is like Larry,Moe and Curly going through a door.

That being said, before the non toxic shot laws I used to shoot my High Standard Flite King 410 skeet choked with 3" #5s and kill ducks with more frequency than you would think possible.
Now I shoot a CZ Ringneck 410 choked IC/Mod for pheasant,chukar,quail,huns and 3" 7.5s and it kills just as dead as my Parker 20. Actually I've shot heads off with the 410 than my 20 or 28s.
Of course I am shooting over pointing dogs so shots are mostly close but I don't feel under-gunned.

I cannot say that I have found this to be a truism. Every gun is its own mentor, but with .410s, especially so. I have Full choke .410s that pattern beautifully, with the right load.

I shoot the little guns a lot, like today on the dove field.

For those reasons I pattern all of my .410s. I'm so dutiful about it that I built myself a 4' X 4' steel pattern plate several years ago. I reload my own .410 hunting loads and without patterning them I'd be stumbling around in the dark.

[John Allen]

The key thing we miss with pattern boards is shot stringing. I have found that 410s with full chokes tend to string out the pattern more than the more open chokes. You shot at the lead bird and one 3 birds behind it falls. Find a copy of Bob Brister's "Shotgunning The Art and Science". He did a lot of research on shot stringing.

[Bill Murphy]

And The Lovely Linda made me sell my beloved 1974 Country Squire before I could take the time to duplicate Bob Brister's shot stringing experiments.

[Timothy Cicora]

What brought you to the patterning board?

[Brett Trimble]

Gentlemen,

Have a look at this video. He did at least one follow up which is even more interesting.

The upshot is that, for 12ga duck loads, shot stringing does not make a meaningful difference. The strings are short enough, and the shot is traveling fast enough, that nearly all the shot arrives on target, even with the bird flying at 40mph.

I would love to see this experiment done with the 410!


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fac-03JF3GA&ra=m

[Brett Trimble]

Timothy,

A friend of a friend was chiding me for using my M42 on doves. I really never gave it much thought as it has always worked fine at reasonable ranges. That comment started me down the patterning rabbit hole.. :)

Best,
Brett

[John Allen]

Bill, I am sure you mentioned duplicating Bristers drive by experiments to the lovely Linda. I mentioned it to my Miss Annie and got a look that would stop a charging cape buffalo. I quietly backed out of the room as I apologized. Amazing that Brister got anyone to drive that car,much less his wife.

[Bill Murphy]

John, everyone should read Brister's "Shotgunning, the Art and Science" book, a great read. A great guy who hosted what was mostly a pigeon shooting column in a metropolitan newspaper.