Parker BHE barrel and water table original?

[Mark Luitjen]

I'm seriously considering a BHE but have some questions regarding the gun. First, after looking at dozens of guns on Guns International and Gun Broker as well as a couple of hours on our Forum, every BH I've seen has an engraved band where the barrel meets the action. This gun does not have the engraved band. Also, there is a cut on the rib about two inches in front of the doll's head. Lastly, the water table is engine turned and I don't know if that is an option from the factory or if it was done later. The gun appears to be a legitimate BHE and the price is not unreasonable, but I worry that there may be some issues as to the originality which could affect the value. I have several Parkers from Trojan, VH, VHE, PHE, GHE and SC and am hoping to add a true high grade to the collection but would appreciate some guidance because even though the price seems reasonable, its still a lot of money.

[J. Scott Hanes]

What is the serial number? What markings are on the water table?

[Reggie Bishop]

Sounds like anything but an original Parker BH.

[Craig Larter]

Sounds like anything but an original Parker BH.

Agree

[Bill Murphy]

Sorry, but you have to provide pictures to get a good opinion of what you are describing.

[Dean Romig]

If the “cut on the rib” is something that you can catch your thumbnail on and it’s quite visible I would suggest at the minimum that the barrels have been worked on and poorly refinished… that or possibly replacement barrels.

What’s the serial number?
How about a pic of the markings on the barrel flats.





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[Mark Luitjen]

The serial number is 152347. It appears that it was re-barreled with a Titanic steel D grade barrel, rather than an Acme Steel barrel. The same serial number is on the barrel but there is a 3 on the barrel flat. The asking price was $9K but I brought these issues to their attention and it is now priced at 5K. Is it possible that the barrels were originally Damascus and it was re-barreled with a Grade 3 barrel, or was it more likely cobbed together? Is it worth the asking price in your opinion? I haven't figured out how to send pics yet but am working on it.

[Dean H Hanson]

NIB. Those should have been fluid steel barrels (Acme) with that serial #, unless otherwise requested. Do all the serial numbers match?

[Dean H Hanson]

Also, if the seller dropped from $9K to $5k after issues were brought ta light, it tells you how much they have into it and can still make $$$$$. They DO NOT know what they are selling.

[Mark Luitjen]

Yes all serial numbers are the same. I have given up trying to send pics as the website keeps telling me the attachments are invalid. Maybe someone can direct to me to the "attach pictures for dummies" area of the website. There is not a gap on the rib but it was obviously cut. BTW, the barrels "overload proved parker bros" stamps on the barrels. I always believed that this indicated much later date of manufacture than the 1910 manufacture date for this serial number. the receiver has 3 patent dates Jan 18 Aug 16 1887, May 7 Oct 8 1889 and Aug 15 1905. <BH>,152347 and a 5 on the opposite watertable. It is an ejector gun.

[Larry Stauch]

That's another gun that's been totally messed with. It does have a Remington repair code on the barrel flats, so the barrels are probably a Remington era replacement. At $5 grand that may be a good shooter. You just have to convince the next guy that that's the case when you decide to sell it.

[Bill Murphy]

Is Larry's picture a picture of the original poster's gun or some other gun?

[Larry Stauch]

Here are a few other pictures BILL.

[Dean Romig]

Did you see a Remington code stamped on the right barrel flat close to the lug?





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[Larry Stauch]

Yes, It looks like A D 3 to me. I didn’t put the three in there because that’s usually a given for that department.

[edgarspencer]

Is it worth the asking price in your opinion? .

Yes, and then some. It sounds like a gun which went to Remington and was fitted with Grade 3 barrels. The fit at the dolls head is quite good and the rib extension joint isn't any worse than a lot of guns out there.

[Larry Stauch]

And the roll pin has been reversed, probably for wear. And you can see the plugged hole in the bottom rib.

[Brian Dudley]

The roll pin being flipped has nothing to do with wear. It is wholly someone putting it together that did not pay attention.

[Dean Romig]

Yes, It looks like A D to me.

Without the service code 3 that is probably a build date on those barrels.





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[Mark Luitjen]

I would like to know where the pictures that have been posted came from. I gave up trying to send mine. This is absolutely the gun I bought. Was this gun on some website for sale before I got it? Also as a novice and not a gunsmith, the discussions about the roll pin are like Greek to me. I have noticed that the fore-end is difficult to remove and put back on. Could this be attributed to the roll pin? Should I have that repaired?

[Larry Stauch]

I would like to know where the pictures that have been posted came from. I gave up trying to send mine. This is absolutely the gun I bought. Was this gun on some website for sale before I got it? Also as a novice and not a gunsmith, the discussions about the roll pin are like Greek to me. I have noticed that the fore-end is difficult to remove and put back on. Could this be attributed to the roll pin? Should I have that repaired?

PM sent.

[Mark Luitjen]

Larry,
Thanks for the info and encouragement. My buyer's remorse disappeared after I shot the BHE at the trap field yesterday. Any advice from our members on the best gunsmiths to send Parkers to for repairs, like putting ejector hardware back into the fore-end? I found the hardware that I didn't know I had recently, and thanks to Dean Hanson now know the belong in the first parker I bought years ago.

[Dean Romig]

Some forends are simply stubborn.
Whatever you do, don’t force it off or on without knowing exactly where to apply pressure… you could end up breaking it in half.





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[edgarspencer]

Also as a novice and not a gunsmith, the discussions about the roll pin are like Greek to me.

It is generally accepted that the slotted head of the roll pin is on the left side, although there are documented examples of the opposite. It has no effect on the functionality of the gun, merely here say evidence the gun has been worked on.

[allen newell]

You earlier asked about gunsmiths. Just fyi I use Dan Cullity in Sandwich Mass for all of work needed on my Parkers and other guns

[edgarspencer]

Some forends are simply stubborn.
Whatever you do, don’t force it off or on without knowing exactly where to apply pressure… you could end up breaking it in half.

Dean is right in saying this and it isn't uncommon to see a gun with a repaired fore end, that has been broken around the front of the fore end iron.
It's logical to assume Parker wouldn't have shipped a gun with a fore end so difficult to install, so, why now? I'll state it here, that this 99% the case on an EJECTOR gun. In the case of the subject gun, it's related to the fitting of a non-original set of barrels. When the gun was built, the gap between the end of the ejector rods and the ejector hammers is barely anything. The ejector rods are ground to get this gap. When a different set of barrels are fitted, this gap may be greater or lessor, and, in the case of the subject gun, the rods are actually pushing on the ejector hammers when you're trying to install the fore end, This is lifting the ejector hammers off of their sears. To prove this to yourself, remove the barrels and install the fore end on them. See if the faces of the ejectors are slightly raised from the breech end of the barrels.
The safest way to fit the fore end on a gun like this is to start the fore end in position, and slightly open the gun. This allows the ejectors to move outward and relieve the pressure of the ejector rods against the ejector hammers. This shouldn't be considered a final fix, and a gunsmith should grind the rods to re-establish the proper gap.