PARKER BHE ENGRAVING PATTERNS

[Bill Burwash]

I have a 1905 Parker BHE in 12 gauge. It has a floral engraving pattern rather than the usual dogs and scroll. Is the floral pattern unusual? Was it an upgrade to the conventional pattern?
Look forward to your comments.

[Reggie Bishop]

Probably a special order request. Two suggestions. First, join the PGCA. Second order a letter on your gun. The letter may address the engraving as well as give you other information about how the gun was configured. You get get a discounted cost on the letter for being a member. And you have access to tons of information available here on the website.

[Brian Dudley]

It would have been special ordered. Similar examples have been observed.

[Bill Burwash]

Thanks. I do have a factory letter but no mention is made of the engraving pattern.

[Brian Dudley]

Interesting. Usually a letter would note that.

[Tom Kidd]

My BHE '00' 28ga grouse swatter with floral engraving.

[Dean Romig]

The BH or Grade-5 was the lowest grade which didn’t have a “standard” engraving motif or pattern. The choice of engraving was generally left up to the buyer. So, not to have it mentioned in the letter shouldn’t surprise us.





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[Garry L Gordon]

As pretty much a gun that could be customized, I’m surprised we don’t find more variation in the engraving on BH guns.

I like that engraving!

[Dean Romig]

I’ve seen BH guns with two dogs on each side; two dogs on each side with a roundel behind with birds in them; roundel with birds surrounded by scroll; rose & scroll; scroll only; No engraving anywhere at all…





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[Bill Burwash]

This same gun appears to be a trap or pigeon gun as it has a Monte Carlo comb which I think was rather unusual for a 1905 gun. Also, it has 32" F&F barrels and no safety.

[Jim DiSpagno]

Post very clear pic of the gun in various areas of interest

[Frank Good]

Posting these pics for Bill as he was having a bit of difficulty in getting them uploaded. This is the gun he mentioned in his posts...:bowdown:
Frank

[Dan Steingraber]

My BHE '00' 28ga grouse swatter with floral engraving.

WOW! That is a beautiful trigger plate. Any chance we could see more of the gun? OO B Grade 28. Just wow.

[David Safris]

For what its worth - here is a B grade Single Barrel Trap. No dogs here - or on the A grade SBT - maybe no dogs ever on SBT's ? someone here knows I'm sure.. I learn something every time I post. I also note the Parker Bros in a straight line here vs the version with the bit of a swoop to it.

[Tom Kidd]

WOW! That is a beautiful trigger plate. Any chance we could see more of the gun? OO B Grade 28. Just wow.

5 lbs - 7 oz
January, 1916
2 5/8" chambers x Imp and Mod x 26" (matches letter)
No mention of scroll engraving in letter
Old research that came with gun states: "only 4 made in this configuration" ??
Excellent in as used and well cared for condition
Had restocked, with a blank that I found down at the old Fox factory, to more friendly dimensions of good old American Std 1 1/2 x 2 1/2 x 14 1/4 x 2 1/2" down pitch with spured BP(exc original stock with skel butt and gold grip cap in secure storage) Photos are of its getting one of many rubbed oil finishes. Sorry no current photos of finished gun and it is currently, down in safe and the old man is just thinking of venturing to the john on his new hip without the walker.

Now weighs 5 lbs - 5 oz and has become one of those 'no think' pointing sticks.
Only problem is: getting too old at 86 in April to do it justice.
But, I am still in the game with my (Wounded Warrior) track wheelchair.

Qualifies for W.O. Odem's; "Ain't no Flies on Dat Summa Bitch"

Enjoy!!

[Dan Steingraber]

Thank you. What a gun! Here’s to next year’s grouse season and a beautiful trip through the woods!

[Bill Burwash]

5 lbs - 7 oz
January, 1916
2 5/8" chambers x Imp and Mod x 26" (matches letter)
No mention of scroll engraving in letter
Old research that came with gun states: "only 4 made in this configuration" ??
Excellent in as used and well cared for condition
Had restocked, with a blank that I found down at the old Fox factory, to more friendly dimensions of good old American Std 1 1/2 x 2 1/2 x 14 1/4 x 2 1/2" down pitch with spured BP(exc original stock with skel butt and gold grip cap in secure storage) Photos are of its getting one of many rubbed oil finishes. Sorry no current photos of finished gun and it is currently, down in safe and the old man is just thinking of venturing to the john on his new hip without the walker.

Now weighs 5 lbs - 5 oz and has become one of those 'no think' pointing sticks.
Only problem is: getting too old at 86 in April to do it justice.
But, I am still in the game with my (Wounded Warrior) track wheelchair.

Qualifies for W.O. Odem's; "Ain't no Flies on Dat Summa Bitch"

Enjoy!!

That's a beautiful gun. Congratulations staying in the upland bird hunting game in spite of limitations. Hang in there buddy.

[Bill Burwash]

My 1905 BHE 12 ga has a Monte Carlo comb---is this fairly rare for a 1905 gun? It also has a beautifully checkered butt. Isn't a skeleton buttplate more common? There is no mention in the factory letter about either question.
Your comments are welcomed.

[Reggie Bishop]

Yes a skeleton buttplate is more common than a checkered butt. And the Monte Carlo stock treatment isn't seen often but there certainly are examples of such. I will say the pattern of the checkered butt is a typical Parker pattern. Letters don't always give the details that we wish they did. Just because the letter doesn't mention something doesn't mean its not a factory original treatment.

[Craig Larter]

All three guns are very nice thanks for posting pictures. BH's are my favorite Parker grade. All mine have the more common dog engraving although the trigger plate engraving is different.

[John Davis]

For what its worth - here is a B grade Single Barrel Trap. No dogs here - or on the A grade SBT - maybe no dogs ever on SBT's ? someone here knows I'm sure.. I learn something every time I post. I also note the Parker Bros in a straight line here vs the version with the bit of a swoop to it.

David, the pigeon in flight on the SC’s is the only animal I’ve seen on a Parker SBT. Not to say “never”, but I believe it would be very rare.

[Dean Romig]

Thank you. What a gun! Here’s to next year’s grouse season and a beautiful trip through the woods!


My heart is very happy for any grouse sent to Valhalla with that magnificent little B :whistle:





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[Bill Burwash]

My 1905 BHE has 2 3/4" chambers and is confirmed in the factory letter. The barrel flats are marked "Overload Proved"---is this Parker's way of saying that it has 2 3/4" chambers?
The chamber length is not marked on the barrels.
I presume that 2 3/4" chambers were special ordered at the time---otherwise they were 2 5/8"?
Thanks for your comments.

[Dave Noreen]

Generally speaking the PARKER BROS. OVERLOAD PROVED stamp began appearing during 1926 in the 216xxx serial number range.

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If your 1905 vintage gun has such a stamp it may well indicate it was rebarreled between 1926 and the Remington take over. Does your rib legend have MERIDEN, CONN. or MERIDEN, CT, U.S.A.?

[Bill Burwash]

Generally speaking the PARKER BROS. OVERLOAD PROVED stamp began appearing during 1926 in the 216xxx serial number range.

140513

If your 1905 vintage gun has such a stamp it may well indicate it was rebarreled between 1926 and the Remington take over. Does your rib legend have MERIDEN, CONN. or MERIDEN, CT, U.S.A.?

Its marked Meriden CT USA. And Titanic Steel.

[Frank Good]

A few more pics of the BHE I'm posting for Bill.

[Dean Romig]

Interesting that the barrels are stamped for a Grade-3 but the water table is stamped Grade-5.

What is the history on the barrels? And was the gun originally produced with Damascus barrels?.....Nope, it's a Ti5 gun... Hmmm...

Beautiful BHE in any case!!





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[Randy G Roberts]

May we see a pic of the serial number on the barrel lug please?

[Bill Burwash]

May we see a pic of the serial number on the barrel lug please?

The barrels don't have a serial number. However, the splinter forend is numbered to the receiver.

[Bill Burwash]

Interesting that the barrels are stamped for a Grade-3 but the water table is stamped Grade-5.

What is the history on the barrels? And was the gun originally produced with Damascus barrels?.....Nope, it's a Ti5 gun... Hmmm...

Beautiful BHE in any case!!





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The factory letter doesn't mention whether the barrels are steel or damascus. However, the letter does say that it was ordered with 2 3/4" chambers. The gun was bought at auction a few years ago so there is a gap of 100+ years of unknown history.

[Dean Romig]

Well the Serialization says it was produced with Titanic Steel barrels so it will always remain a mystery as to why the barrel flats are stamped Grade-3.





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[Bill Burwash]

The barrels don't have a serial number. However, the splinter forend is numbered to the receiver.

Sorry, the barrels are indeed serial numbered to the action. Had to take a second look at the barrels.

[Bill Murphy]

At the time the gun was rebarrelled, all Titanic barrels were probably stamped with a grade 3 stamp. When the gun was originally made, Titanic Steel was used in several grades.

[Dean Romig]

That’s a possibility Bill. Titanic barrels were used on Grade 3 and higher. Acme Steel barrels wouldn’t be produced until 1907 I believe. Peerless Steel I believe was used on Grade-7…





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[Bill Murphy]

By the time the gun was rebarrelled, only the D grade guns were barrelled with Titanic steel, hence the "3" marking.

[Bill Burwash]

By the time the gun was rebarrelled, only the D grade guns were barrelled with Titanic steel, hence the "3" marking.

Is the "3" you are referring to, the small "3" stamped on the barrel flats nearest to the breech end of the flats?

[Randy G Roberts]

Is the "3" you are referring to, the small "3" stamped on the barrel flats nearest to the breech end of the flats?

Yes it is Bill...

[Dean Romig]

That is where the grade of the gun the barrels are intended for is stamped. Grade-2 and lower were not stamped there.





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[Bill Burwash]

My barrel flats are stamped "Overload Proved"---I read that this stamp started to be used in 1925---so my barrels were made in 1925 or afterwards?
The rib of my gun is stamped "Meriden CT"---when was this first used rather than Meriden, Conn"?
Thanks again to responders.

[Dave Noreen]

They changed from CONN. to CT. U.S.A. circa 1919.

One other thing if it was rebarreled after 1910 Parker Bros. would have fitted a new bolt and the 1910-style bolt plate on the lug --

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[Dean Romig]

The bolt plate is pinned but I can’t see if it’s the 1910 patented stepped type of plate.





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[Bill Burwash]

The bolt plate is pinned but I can’t see if it’s the 1910 patented stepped type of plate.





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I'll prevail once again to Frank to post a pic.
Guess I need a new computer.

[Frank Good]

I'll prevail once again to Frank to post a pic.
Guess I need a new computer.

I think the issue Bill is the site recognizes Model 21 collectors are not so refined of gentleman shooters as Parker shooters is and trying to keep you at bay...:rotf:

Here you go buddy...

[Dean Romig]

Thanks Frank for the clear picture of the 1910 stepped replaceable bolt plate.





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[Dave Noreen]

A Grade 5 gun was nice enough gun to have a lot of factory work done to modernize it for an owner's use. One of the most notable was 84040 one of the first, if not the first hammerless Grade 5 20-gauges. Originally a Quality BH with Damascus barrels that spent time at expositions in the 1890s and finally sold in 1898. In 1937 it went to Remington and got new steel barrels, automatic ejectors and a single selective trigger.

[Bill Burwash]

I think the issue Bill is the site recognizes Model 21 collectors are not so refined of gentleman shooters as Parker shooters is and trying to keep you at bay...:rotf:

Here you go buddy...

Yes, I have to admit to being a Model 21 collector. But, I have seen the light and now have a very nice Parker. And the Parker community comprising this web site have been extremely accommodating. Very rewarding.

[Bill Burwash]

A Grade 5 gun was nice enough gun to have a lot of factory work done to modernize it for an owner's use. One of the most notable was 84040 one of the first, if not the first hammerless Grade 5 20-gauges. Originally a Quality BH with Damascus barrels that spent time at expositions in the 1890s and finally sold in 1898. In 1937 it went to Remington and got new steel barrels, automatic ejectors and a single selective trigger.

Very nice BHE especially being a 20 gauge. Great that it was sent back to the factory and got modernized. Mine too was sent back to the factory for re-barreling---wish they had added a single trigger, beavertail forend and a vent rib.

[Bill Burwash]

We have established that my BHE was re-barreled by the factory about 1919 or afterwards. Is it reasonable to assume that it was re-barreled before the Remington purchase in 1934?

[Josh Loewensteiner]

On the subject of interesting B Grades, had this 34” sweetheart walk in to the office this week….

[Dean Romig]

HOLY (Expletive Deleted)!! What a beauty!!






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[keavin nelson]

My oh My!!!! A stunning example, be still my heart!

[Bill Burwash]

There are some really nice B grades being shown on this thread.

[Garry L Gordon]

There are some really nice B grades being shown on this thread.

B grades rule…in my not nearly humble enough opinion.

[Frank Good]

Yes, I have to admit to being a Model 21 collector. But, I have seen the light and now have a very nice Parker. And the Parker community comprising this web site have been extremely accommodating. Very rewarding.

I sadly have to admit I no longer own a Parker. I only had the one, a 1911 VH 12ga 30" F/F but I had the choice to keep it or move it and a pair of graded Lefevers to fund a 1928 NID4E 16 ga 2bbl set. I just HAD TO HAVE the NID as a mate to my 1927 NID4E 12ga 2bbl set so the others were moved to make way for the new addition. My heart has really been set on a 20ga Parker anyways and I have enough 12ga's of other makes that the 12ga Parker could move along without breaking my heart too badly and as you are aware Bill and I'm sure a few others are as well graded Ithacas are much easier to attain financially when you are a blue collar worker, especially in Canada where the market is ultra soft and often bargains can be had compared with values in the lower 48. Admittedly these Ithacas fit me extremely well too and I shoot them better than I did my VH Parker and I really like to hunt these guns.

[Rich Anderson]

I had a BHE live bird gun with floral engraving it had 30 inch Damascus barrels and a Monte Carlo stock. It shot so high it was hard to shoot sporting clays with it as I had to float the bird. It was awesome at trap however.

I have a 32 inch BHE 20 with floral engraving, straight grip, splinter forearm

[Daryl Corona]

No need to apologize Frank. You can easily find another Parker but those 4E's are gorgeous.

[Bill Burwash]

What was the standard trigger finish for my 1905 BHE? I presume gold would be an option?

[todd allen]

I think Titanic barrels are correct on a 1905 B Grade.
BTW, there should be a rule that anyone who owns a B Grade, or above Parker needs to be a PGCA member.
:)

[Garry L Gordon]

Came across this BHE floor plate engraving. Again, ya gotta love the B grade.

[Dean Romig]

I love those Wood Ducks engraved!

The engraver even detailed the black & white flank feathers.

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[Craig Larter]

Came across this BHE floor plate engraving. Again, ya gotta love the B grade.

I should own that gun LOL!

[Garry L Gordon]

A few more BH grades:

(From the top: An early 12, a very late Damascus 16, and a 1904 20 gauge)

[Bill Burwash]

I think Titanic barrels are correct on a 1905 B Grade.
BTW, there should be a rule that anyone who owns a B Grade, or above Parker needs to be a PGCA member.
:)

Thanks to your hint, I am now your newest member.
Bill

[Craig Larter]

A few more BH grades:

(From the top: An early 12, a very late Damascus 16, and a 1904 20 gauge)

Garry-VERY VERY NICE!!!:bowdown:

[Stan Hoover]

Very nice BH Grades there Garry,

If you ever need to move the 20 along, please let me know. I love the Fine Damascus pattern there.

[Garry L Gordon]

Thanks to your hint, I am now your newest member.
Bill

Good for you, Bill! Welcome.

[Dean Romig]

Very nice B’s Garry!!

Are those Damascus barrels DD stamped?




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[Garry L Gordon]

Very nice B’s Garry!!

Are those Damascus barrels DD stamped?




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Gosh, Dean, I'm not sure. I've been sorting photos (a foul weather chore to bide my time). The guns are packed in the safe. When I do my Spring wipe down, I'll check. The 16 gauge, as I mentioned, is a very late gun -- 1924 if I recall correctly. I imagine it was a special request (it was given to a NY banker according to the order letter I have). The pattern on it is not as fine as on the 20 gauge, but beautiful nonetheless.