What does this mean?

[David Livesay]

In the recent Guyette & Deeter gun auction, I noticed this sentence was being used in the description of condition on some of the higher condition guns.
"Original strike marks present on breech ends of barrels."
They never showed any pictures, so I'm not sure what they were describing. Can someone show and tell what that means?

[Brian Dudley]

Exactly as it describes. The linear marks left on the barrels from striking. That were not polished out in finishing. This will be evident on lower grade guns. The higher the grade, the more the barrels were finished. Look at your new trojan and you will see a lot of striking marks on it. Especially by the ribs and under the forend.

Vs on a AA grade, the barrels will be polished to the quality of an english best gun with no left striking marks.

[David Livesay]

Thanks Brian, I will check it out.

[Craig Larter]

Example

[Paul Ehlers]

I'm of the thought that we have two explanations of two different but similar things.

In Brians case if I'm reading him correctly, he's referring to total removal of the draw filing linear marks that might remain after the barrels were struck to the final fit & profile. These can be more prevalent on the lower grade guns.

In the example that Craig posted pictures of, the linear marks on the breech face have been purposely done as a decorative embellishment, which is fairly commonly found on the higher grades. These lines are very shallow and can easily disappear with use, if they are original from the factory & still in high condition, it could be a sign that the gun has had very little use & is in like new condition.

[Dean Romig]

Example

Thanks craig - This is what I was thinking but just with the wrong terminology. This is radial machine marks.

I have seen these machine marks on very high condition low grade Parkers too.

.

[Gerald McPherson]

Yes, Dean I have had a VH and a Gh with that. Broaching?

[John B White]

I learn something new here nearly every day.

Carry on.

[Brian Dudley]

The polishing rays on the breech face would NOT be considered “striking marks”. Two different animals.

[Brian Dudley]

Here is a photo example of factory striking marks on a VH.

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[Bill Murphy]

Explain how either style can be identified as original or recent.

[David Livesay]

Maybe Josh could tell us what they were describing.

[David Livesay]

Here's a picture of my Trojan barrel flats and the area under the fore end. I see some fine linier marks if that's what they were talking about. What does the
HT/A mean?

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[edgarspencer]

Look at the breech face of the barrels Craig posted in post #4 of this thread. That is what Josh was talking about.
It is generally accepted that HT over A signifies Heat Treated- Annealed.

[Brian Dudley]

I could have sworn that the original post stated “strike marks at END of barrels”. Bot with the word BREECH in there. Maybe I missed it, maybe it was edited after originally posted.

So, given that, my assumption would be that the auction description is in fact talking about the polished rays on the breech face as Craig posted a great photo of. As this is a normal treatment on graded parker when made new. And it is on the BREECH end or face.

The issue with the wording of the description is using the word “strike”. As that treatment on the breech face is not striking. Striking is the operation of rough shaping the tubes to profile through draw filing. Striking marks on barrel tubes would be what I desceibed and showed photos of earlier.

The treatment of the striped rays on the breech face is something that I am not entirely sure the name of. I used to think it was called broaching, but that is technically a machining term for something different. Some just call it striping when the polished lines are vertical and evenly spaced.

[David Livesay]

I have gone back and looked at the Guyette & Deeter auction and several of the gun descriptions mention the strike marks. It's not about high grade guns, but high condition guns. There are several VH Parkers where the term is used such as the following.

https://bid.guyetteanddeeter.com/lots/view/5-28P60H/stunning-high-original-condition-parker-vhe-grade-16-gauge

[Brian Dudley]

When I say graded, I mean not trojans. I do not think the breech treatment was done of trojans. But I could be mistaken.

[David Livesay]

When I say graded, I mean not trojans. I do not think the breech treatment was done of trojans. But I could be mistaken.

Brian, I totally respect your opinion, but I still would like to hear from Josh L. about what this term means. I think it something that is possibly present on any gun that has been used very little.

[Dave Tercek]

I've seen them on some English guns, not radial but vertical. They are sometimes described as milling or machining marks.

[Dean Weber]

I don't know the specifics of what grades of Parkers "file marks" were present from factory. That said, these marks are typical on English guns. Jack Rowe, an English gunsmith, shows how they are applied in his videos on Youtube. The one I remember was with he and Larry Potterfield showing how to tighten up an action. he then re-applied the file marks.

The marks are applied by wrapping a metal file with fine grit sandpaper and filing across the breech face with the file on edge. It is a cosmetic procedure. Certainly is not emprical proof that a gun has not been used much as Jack Rowe performed the same application in a few minutes on a gun which needed to be tightened.

As for Josh's explanation in the auction bill, I believe this is what he is describing. Whether it means anything as to useage, is likely more opinion and other variables should be taken into account for condition/useage.

[Josh Loewensteiner]

Thanks to my good friend Craig Larter for sharing a photo of what I was conveying in the catalog descriptions!

[David Livesay]

Thanks to my good friend Craig Larter for sharing a photo of what I was conveying in the catalog descriptions!

Thanks for clearing that up Josh.

[Craig Larter]

Here is a few pictures from the gun I posted with the breech faces with the marks. Normally a sign of high comdition
,u be the judge,