J.P Dean's Parker

[Frank Good]

Has anyone here ever heard of this gentleman? His gun is available here in Canada and I am thinking of purchasing it. I cannot find any information about his shooting accomplishments so it may not be much providence other than what is advertised. I don't own or have access to the Parker volumes mentioned to look up the article on the gun.

12g Parker Bros "B" Grade Double Shotgun #79051
Pictured in the Parker Book ( 2 Volume Set) Page 141
30" Damascus Barrels with Shiny Bores. Double Bead Ivory Sights.
Gold Insert in Grip Cap engraved with JP Dean Aug.20th 1896 Minneapolis Minn.
JP Dean was a known Trapshooter from that era.
Equipped with prototype ejectors & single trigger.
Extensively finely engraved with Hounds, Stags and a floral pattern.
Barrel Has a raised rib engraved with Parker Bros Makers Merien Conn. Damascus Steel.
Extra Fancy Walnut stock with fine checkering & carved flur-de-lis. Stock has multiple scratches & dents from years of use. The Hawkins Recoil Pad has collapsed over time.
A very fine rare specimen.
Firearms are not tested and should be inspected by a Competent Gunsmith before firing.
All Sales are as is where is

[Brian Dudley]

I doubt there is anything “prototype” about the ejectors or single trigger. They are likely just aftermarket. At least the trigger is by the look of it. But I cannot see anything about the ejector mechanism. The gun was made prior to the implementation of both features by the factory.

[Dean Romig]

It may have been sent back to Meriden to have ejectors fitted for a $25 Charge.
The trigger could be a Miller single trigger (not selective).

I think it could use a new pad…:eek:

I haven’t heard of JP Dean but his name is likely searchable on the Internet somewhere.



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[Frank Good]

It may have been sent back to Meriden to have ejectors fitted for a $25 Charge.
The trigger could be a Miller single trigger (not selective).

I think it could use a new pad…:eek:

I haven’t heard of JP Dean but his name is likely searchable on the Internet somewhere.



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Yes it definitely needs a pad!

[Dean Romig]

I wonder why someone would hack up that pad like that???





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[Frank Good]

I wonder why someone would hack up that pad like that???





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It's almost like they tried to shape it with a knife?

[Bill Murphy]

Hatchet or chain saw.

[Stan Hoover]

What looks to be a Miller trigger wouldn't bother me in the least, I would replace the Hawkins and enjoy.

It would be a bonus if it had a skeleton butt plate, but there's enough of other things going there, I would be very interested.

I didn't have a chance to look in the TPS yet, do they mention the frame size?

[Craig Larter]

What looks to be a Miller trigger wouldn't bother me in the least, I would replace the Hawkins and enjoy.

It would be a bonus if it had a skeleton butt plate, but there's enough of other things going there, I would be very interested.

I didn't have a chance to look in the TPS yet, do they mention the frame size?

I'm with Stan, beautiful gun enjoy it, replace the Hawkins and shoot it. I really like the early B's

[Bill Murphy]

I didn't find it on page 141 of TPS. Anyone have any more information?

[Frank Good]

What looks to be a Miller trigger wouldn't bother me in the least, I would replace the Hawkins and enjoy.

It would be a bonus if it had a skeleton butt plate, but there's enough of other things going there, I would be very interested.

I didn't have a chance to look in the TPS yet, do they mention the frame size?

They do not in the ad or show any pics of the water table etc. I don't have a copy of the TPS to look either.

[Brett Trimble]

There appears to be a JP Dean who served in the Minnesota State Senate in 1898. The State Historical Society may be able to help with additional details.

[Frank Good]

There appears to be a JP Dean who served in the Minnesota State Senate in 1898. The State Historical Society may be able to help with additional details.

Must be a google thing where it restricts you to what you can find based on your country of origin as I cannot get anything like you posted to come up in a google search. Unless it's my browser doing it?

[Phil Yearout]

Wow; interesting way to try to make a pad fit the stock :shock:. Although at least they chopped the pad. I once drove to the KC Cabela's to look at what was purported to be a nice little Hunter Arms 20ga, and when I got there the stock had been whittled on just like that to match a replacement butt plate that was too small. I always said it looked like it had been done with a hatchet. That fact had not been mentioned in the gun's description nor during the conversations I'd had with the Cabela's folks when I expressed interest in the gun and had it shipped in from another store.

They wouldn't bargain at all on their asking price despite the stock damage so obviously I passed. I was pretty disappointed, and then my wife said, "Why don't you just buy that Fox; that's the one you really want anyway?" God I love that woman!

[Brett Trimble]

Frank,

That picture popped up on a post by the Minnesota Historical Society. Another search confirmed JP as a Minnesota Senate member at that time. I was using Google’s AI feature. You can call the Historical Society or ho to there webpage which is highlighted in the Facebook post.

Best,
Brett

[GunnerGrilli]

That Pad is wild!!!!



Bobby

[Dave Noreen]

Several companies offered ejectors for Parker Bros. hammerless doubles. One of the most noted was Moran & Wolfersperger in Chicago --

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For years after Mathew E. Moran and Ross C. Wolfersperger went their separate ways, Gus Habich in Indianapolis offered the M & W ejectors --

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Another maker was C.A. Fischer, Grand Forks, North Dakota, offering ejectors for Parker Bros. guns --

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I seem to recall there was an outfit in San Francisco offering aftermarket ejectors for Parker Bros. hammerless guns as well.

When Parker Bros. introduced their ejectors circa 1901, they were ridiculously expensive at $25 --

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Ejectors were only $5 extra on Remington Hammerless Doubles.

[Alfred Houde]

Just a guess, the hacking up of the pad may not so much have been a poor fitting attempt as perhaps an attempt to make it or at least make it look pliable.

We have all seen vintage pads crushed, melted, rotted away, and hard as a rock. It may explain why material has been removed all the way around it.

Definitely needs to be replaced, for sure.

[Craig Larter]

Another cool old war horse that I appreciate for what it is, just a neat old gun that has been modified to suit it's owners needs. It's about as far from original condition as can be but can't imagine how many days afield and at the traps this gun has encountered.

[Frank Good]

Somebody bumped it up $2000 in one bid within a couple hours of my posting looking for info on JP Dean. :rolleyes:

I won't do that again...:rotf:

[Bill Murphy]

Canada is a big place. I wonder how they found it.

[Frank Good]

Canada is a big place. I wonder how they found it.

And I've met the guy that owns and runs the auction it is listed in. He runs the auction out of his garage basically. Retired oilfield guy.

[Dave Noreen]

I didn't find it on page 141 of TPS. Anyone have any more information?

Fig. 4.25 -- BH gun number 79051 (made in 1893) has a single trigger of unknown origin. A picture of the gun from 1900 shows the trigger on it......

[Craig Larter]

Page 140 under The Single Trigger also has a few more details about 79051

[Bill Murphy]

OK, found it. I was looking for a full view of the gun.

[Bill Murphy]

Frank, I would keep bidding. It's a pretty interesting gun.

[Dave Noreen]

A thought has come to my fevered mind! J.P. Dean was in the Twin Cities and probably the most notable gunsmith there in the 1890s to WW-I time frame was Frank Novotny --

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Frank might be a good candidate for 79051's ejectors and single trigger.

I have a vague memory of some mention in Parker Pages about Parker Bros. guns being shipped to Novotny for custom work. Anyone recall the issue or am I dreaming.

Our Home Page shows there is surviving material for a letter on 79051.

[Craig Larter]

Historical Profile: Frank Novotny
Active Period: Late 1870s to the 1930s. Records from FamilySearch indicate he was born in Bohemia in 1852 and established his gunsmithing business in St. Paul following his marriage there in 1877.

Reputation: He was arguably the most notable gunsmith in the Twin Cities during the 1890s and was known for high-quality custom work.

Innovations: Novotny is specifically recognized for his work on single triggers and ejector systems.

Connection to Parker Shotguns
Collectors on the PGCA Forums have highlighted Novotny's role in customizing high-grade Parker guns.

Gun #79051: A notable BH-Grade Parker (made in 1893) features a single trigger and ejectors of "unknown origin." Forum experts suggest that Novotny is a strong candidate for this custom work, as the gun’s owner at the time, J.P. Dean, lived in the Twin Cities.

Custom Shop: There are historical mentions of Parker Bros. shipping guns directly to Novotny for custom modifications, suggesting he held a specialized status that the factory respected.

Novotny's Patent: Some guns modified by him carry markings or patents associated with his specific single trigger design, which was a sought-after upgrade before such features became standard factory options.

Business Location
In the 1900 Federal Census, he was listed as a "gunsmith and proprietor of guns" in St. Paul, Ramsey County. His shop served the affluent sportsmen of the era who desired European-style refinements on American-made shotguns.

Would you like me to see if I can find the specific patent details for his single trigger or any additional information on J.P. Dean?
Frank Novotny held a specific patent for his single trigger mechanism, which was a notable advancement in shotgun technology during the early 20th century.

Patent Details
Patent Number: 1,268,760.

Issue Date: June 4, 1918.

Function: This patent covered a specific single trigger design for double-barreled shotguns.

Context: In the timeline of single-trigger development, Novotny’s design followed other major innovations like those by J.A.R. Elliott (1902) and Fulford (1902, 1904), but preceded factory-standard options like the Parker Single Trigger, which wasn't cataloged until 1923.

Historical Significance
Novotny’s work is particularly prized by collectors of high-grade American firearms because he was one of the few master gunsmiths trusted to perform these complex conversions on premium guns like Parkers. His shop in St. Paul served as a regional hub for custom modifications that often exceeded factory standards of the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

About J.P. Dean
The original owner of the famous BH-Grade Parker (#79051) associated with Novotny’s work was J.P. Dean of the Twin Cities.

The Gun: Built in 1893, this shotgun is a key example of early custom work, featuring a single trigger and ejectors of "unknown origin" that experts believe are the work of Novotny.

Local Ties: Because Dean was a prominent resident of the Twin Cities, it is highly probable he utilized the most notable local master gunsmith, Novotny, for these high-end modifications.

Would you like me to see if I can find more biographical details on J.P. Dean’s status in St. Paul or additional information on other gunsmiths in the Novotny family?

All courtsey of Google Gemini AI Amazing new tool for doing resaeach. Craig

[Bill Murphy]

A person that worked in my dad's US Government agency wrote me a letter when I became interested in Parker guns at a tender age. He mentioned that he owned an A1 Special Parker and if I remember correctly, may have sent a picture. He also mentioned Frank Novotny and proclaimed him to be a very skilled gunsmith. In going through the Parker records, I found evidence that Novotny had ordered Parker parts making me suspect that he was building Parkers, or maybe upgrading them. My dad's friend lived near Novotny and probably knew him. I suspect that my dad's friend did not really have a Parker A1 Special, but an upgrade built by Novotny. I have never been able to locate the correspondence from that person. However, I think I have the Novotny information that I copied from the Parker records when I was in the Remington Archives at Ilion.

[Bill Murphy]

I found my post about Novotny. It may be one of the posts that Dave Noreen mentions earlier. Search "novotny", go on the thread titled "One owner Parker". The post I am mentioning is dated 9-19-2011. It is a rehash of my experience with my dad's friend and Novotny, and the A1 Special.

[Frank Good]

The gun ended up selling for $4100 plus buyers premium of $615 for a total of $4715 and no I did not take part in the final part of the auction. I came across a 1928 NID4E 16ga 2bbl set through a private sale which captured more of my attention. Ended up making a deal and I pick it up this week.

[Dave Noreen]

Love seeing the mid- to higher grade NIDs that are not fully optioned target guns. More pictures when you get it?

[nick balzano]

do all 16 ga. trojans have automatic safeties

[Bill Murphy]

Frank, thanks for the information on the auction.

[Craig Larter]

So that's $3489 us dollars

[Frank Good]

So that's $3489 us dollars

And if the buyer is in the US he is going to have to either take the Canadian Fireams Safety Course or challenge the test to acquire a PAL to purchase the gun in Canada. Then if he passes the test send in the required documentation and payment along with his test results, await the 8 week processing period to receive his PAL in the mail. After that he can then make arrangements through an importer/exporter in Canada that has an importer with an FFL stateside to have his gun shipped to plus pay all applicable duties, taxes and export and import fees associated so by the time all that is complete add another $1200+ so his gun is now $5000+

[Dean Romig]

do all 16 ga. trojans have automatic safeties


From the factory, yes unless ordered otherwise.





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[Stan Hoover]

And if the buyer is in the US he is going to have to either take the Canadian Fireams Safety Course or challenge the test to acquire a PAL to purchase the gun in Canada. Then if he passes the test send in the required documentation and payment along with his test results, await the 8 week processing period to receive his PAL in the mail. After that he can then make arrangements through an importer/exporter in Canada that has an importer with an FFL stateside to have his gun shipped to plus pay all applicable duties, taxes and export and import fees associated so by the time all that is complete add another $1200+ so his gun is now $5000+

Call me foolish, but for that gun I think I may have still been interested:whistle:

Nice NID 16 there, what are the barrel lengths?

[Frank Good]

Call me foolish, but for that gun I think I may have still been interested:whistle:

Nice NID 16 there, what are the barrel lengths?

Both sets are 26", one set is stamped choked 2/4 and the other 3/4 but someone has reamed the chokes out. The 2/4 set mics as skeet/skeet and the other as IC/M. Serial #s match and place the gun as 1928 mfg. Owner says barrels were not cut but I have not seen them yet. I pick it up tomorrow. I'll get a letter from Cody to see just how it was ordered etc. One thing I find interesting is my 1927 NID4E 12ga two barrel set has a forend for each barrel set and both barrels were ordered at time of original order yet this 16 has one forend. I am guessing two forends would have been an extra option?

[Bill Murphy]

The truth is at Cody. Share it with us.

[Dave Noreen]

Both sets are 26", one set is stamped choked 2/4 and the other 3/4 but someone has reamed the chokes out. The 2/4 set mics as skeet/skeet and the other as IC/M. Serial #s match and place the gun as 1928 mfg. Owner says barrels were not cut but I have not seen them yet. I pick it up tomorrow. I'll get a letter from Cody to see just how it was ordered etc. One thing I find interesting is my 1927 NID4E 12ga two barrel set has a forend for each barrel set and both barrels were ordered at time of original order yet this 16 has one forend. I am guessing two forends would have been an extra option?

It appears to me in your picture that the gun doesn't have cocking indicators, which generally means after 1935. If it has the later style forearm latch with the Baker J-spring and the lever actuating a Parker-style tilting block latch, that is a forearm much easier to make work on two sets of barrels.

[Frank Good]

It appears to me in your picture that the gun doesn't have cocking indicators, which generally means after 1935. If it has the later style forearm latch with the Baker J-spring and the lever actuating a Parker-style tilting block latch, that is a forearm much easier to make work on two sets of barrels.

From what I can find online it looks like 1928mfg going by the serial # but it does not have cocking indicators like the 1927 12ga I have. All numbers match throughout.

[Stan Hoover]

Frank,

Is the second # a 5? Meaning is the serial number 454-419?

I have encountered a fair amount of NID’s in the 454-000 range and they generally all came with cocking indicators.
From your excellent pic of the top side of the frame, there is no evidence of closed holes where they may have once been. Possibly the customer requested no cocking indicators.

[Frank Good]

Frank,

Is the second # a 5? Meaning is the serial number 454-419?

I have encountered a fair amount of NID’s in the 454-000 range and they generally all came with cocking indicators.
From your excellent pic of the top side of the frame, there is no evidence of closed holes where they may have once been. Possibly the customer requested no cocking indicators.

Yes the serial # is 454419 and there is no indication that cocking indicators were ever present and filled in. I have a feeling it was ordered without. Hopefully a letter from Cody will provide some information on the order configuration.

[Stephen Hodges]

Those Graded Ithaca Guns sure are nice:)