Returning a gun purchased online.

[Jay Gardner]

Recently a friend of mine purchased a nice-looking English boxlock on GunBroker. The seller listed the specifications including minimum wall thickness' and chamber length (2.5”). He bought the gun for a relatively low price.

When he received the gun it looked like a nice little gun, but upon closer inspection, it was obvious the barrels had been sleeved. Additionally, the chambers were not 2.5”, in fact, the chambers are pretty much non-existent. He emailed the seller, explained why he was rejecting the gun, and the seller replied, "I’m sorry you don’t like the gun. Do go ahead and send it back," which he did.

The question is should the seller reimburse him for the cost of returning the gun? To be clear, he did not return the gun because he “didn’t like it,” he returned it because the seller made material misrepresentations. The seller is in the business and has several English guns listed on GB, so he isn’t a casual seller. One only had to look at the barrel flats to see the gun had been repriced for nitro loads and the seam where the barrels were wet sleeved isn’t hard to see, so I think it’s safe to assume the seller intentionally left out the fact it was sleeved.

Based on the foregoing, is it reasonable to expect a dealer to reimburse a buyer for the cost of returning the gun?

JDG

[Phillip Carr]

The good news is the seller did not give your friend the run around and is willing to allow the guns return. I have read a number of stories where the seller refuses to take it back and it is next to impossible to force them.
I would ask for shipping reimbursement but probably would cut my loses and move on if the seller refused.
It would be interesting to know if there were pictures of the barrels where the sleeving was evident? Also if there were pictures of the barrel flats and water table.
I have only returned one gun after I rejected it and don’t recall if the seller reimbursed me or not.

[David C Porter]

Be thankful the seller is willing to return your money. Beleave me many will give you the run around and will refuse to reimburse. Of course a good seller knowing they made a mistake in the listing will reimburse shipping. Personally, I wouldn't push the shipping and be thankful you're getting the purchase price back.

[Brian Dudley]

I personally believe that if it is the event of a gross error in the listing, 100% of the buyers money should be returned. But if the buyer just returns it for a case of not liking the gun, or if the issue was clearly shown in photos of description, that the buyer is only entitled to the purchase price. Not shipping expenses.

There was only one time that I purchased a gun where there were multiple issues. The gun was advertised as being tight and having good bores. But it was loose with pitted bores AND loose ribs. I insisted that I got ALL of my money back including return shipping. And the seller did it.

Recently I made a mistake in selling a gun. For some odd reason I had it in my mind that a gun I listed was a 30” gun. But it was a 28” gun. When I got the call from the buyer letting me know that I screwed up, I agreed to take it back no problem. I sent him a pre-paid label. I then asked him about any transfer fees he may have had to pay to his ffl. He said it was $30. So I made sure to include that in my refund to him.

Of course all of this comes down to agreements between the two parties and the sellers desire to make it right and not wrong someone that they will never likely hear from again.
But on the other hand, you have to be happy to get most of your money back of the seller does not agree to pay for return shipping.

It really boils down to the seller acknowledging that they made an error. In this case, the seller may not be too versed in double guns and how to see a sleeved barrel. So the buyer may be needing to educate the seller on the point and hoping that they realize they made a gross error and feel the need to refund more than just the purchase price.

[Jay Gardner]

The good news is the seller did not give your friend the run around and is willing to allow the guns return. I have read a number of stories where the seller refuses to take it back and it is next to impossible to force them.
I would ask for shipping reimbursement but probably would cut my loses and move on if the seller refused.
It would be interesting to know if there were pictures of the barrels where the sleeving was evident? Also if there were pictures of the barrel flats and water table.
I have only returned one gun after I rejected it, and I don’t recall if the seller reimbursed me or not.

There were no pictures showing the sleeve seam or the flats, which suggests that the seller, who is in the business of selling used English guns, chose not to include them. That's what I have a problem with. He also said the chambers were 2.5, implying that he measured them, which he obviously did not do. This wasn't an oversight; it was an intentional omission of material facts about the gun.

I appreciate the fact that the seller was willing to accept the gun back, but that's the minimum expectation.

JDG

[Jay Gardner]

I personally believe that if it is the event of a gross error in the listing, 100% of the buyers money should be returned.

It really boils down to the seller acknowledging that they made an error. In this case, the seller may not be too versed in double guns and how to see a sleeved barrel. So the buyer may need to educate the seller on the point and hoping that they realize they made a gross error and feel the need to refund more than just the purchase price.

From time to time, we all make honest mistakes and acknowledge them. But this guy, who appears to sell a lot of older SXSs, has not acknowledged anything. My buddy told the seller why he was returning the gun, and instead of saying, "I didn't know, or I apologize," he said, "If you don't like it, you can return it."

My buddy will ask to be reimbursed for the cost of returning the gun, given the nature of the issue.

Thanks,

JDG

[Andrew Sacco]

Life is too short to piss over soggy Cheerios. I'd ask for the shipping money back, if he says no, just move on. I've had problems getting a gun returned, and when I gave the guy a scathing review he called me and then he got the Italian Treatment over the phone.

[Jay Gardner]

Life is too short to piss over soggy Cheerios. I'd ask for the shipping money back, if he says no, just move on. I've had problems getting a gun returned, and when I gave the guy a scathing review he called me and then he got the Italian Treatment over the phone.

That's my plan. I'll give him a chance to make things right, then give him an appropriate review on GB.

[Stephen Hodges]

I have only had one time that I sent a gun back due to an issue. It was a long time ago and the gun was a Winchester Model 88 Rifle. It was advertised as in very good condition and the pictures in the add seemed to back up those claims. When I received it there was a very noticeable crack in the wrist of the stock. I immediately contacted the seller from my FFL's store, and he agreed to take the gun back. Low and behold two weeks later the gun was back at my FFL's store. A note in the box indicated that the seller did not think the crack was present when he initially shipped the gun to me. There was no sign of damage to the shipping container nor inside. The gun was very well packaged, but at this point I knew I was in a loosing situation. I subsequently sold the gun by reducing the price and being honest as to the crack in the stock. The seller was a pawn shop in Colorado. I vowed to never purchase from a pawn shop again.

[John Allen]

Brian is absolutely correct. I have been on both sides of this issue. If I made a mistake in describing the gun, I owe the buyer a full refund. If the gun is being returned because the buyer just did not like the gun once he got it in hand, then the return shipping should be on the buyer. In either case, the seller owes the buyer a refund of the purchase price as a minimum as long as the seller was notified within the approval period.

[David Livesay]

I had purchased a gun about 5 years ago from a seller on Gun Broker that was advertised as all original, and it looked nice to me in the pics. When it arrived, it had obviously been refinished. You could see sanding marks under the bluing on the receiver. I contacted the seller, and he said I could return it, but I would have to eat the shipping fees both ways, sales taxes and Gun broker fees. I tried for over a week to contact Gun Broker to see if they could do anything to help me to no avail. So, I kept the gun and left the seller some bad feedback in the form of an F. Later I checked the sellers feedback and apparently GB had changed it to a B. Good Luck getting any help from GB if the seller refuses to fully compensate you.

[CraigThompson]

Typically when I list stuff on GB or GI I list it to the best of my knowledge . And for most items we offer a three day return policy as long as you don’t take it from the gunshop or fire it . I try and disclose all minute things , my listings always say if you return said item you shoulder the cost of shipping both ways but I’ll refund the sale price . Quite frankly if you were willing to refund shipping you’d have umpteen people just wanting to look and then return .

[Russ Jackson]

Just three weeks ago , I purchased a 20 Gauge Hunter Special on Gun Broker , strong case colors nice and tight decent bluing and it ended up at a very fair price ! I received the gun and to my Surprise the floor plate was raised a bit in the center and had about a 1/4" Crack but wasn't cracked clear to the edge " YET " ! Long story short , the seller was very nice when I contacted him about the crack and apologized and I paid shipping back ,no problem ,after a few days he contacted me ,very courteously and explained he had looked at the floor plate and decided it was scratched not cracked because it didn't go all the way to the edge and that he was just fine with taking it back but would not refund me the shipping back to him ! I explained it just wasn't cracked the whole way across " YET " but to no avail ! I commented if this was my mistake ,I would eat the shipping costs and for he and his to Have a Merry Christmas ! Life is just too short to worry over a few dollars ! In my situation ,I did not disassemble the gun so I possibly could have been wrong ,he did not either so he could be wrong ,either way , I am happy I got it returned and already have my refund tucked away minus a few dollars shipping !

[Brian Dudley]

I had purchased a gun about 5 years ago from a seller on Gun Broker that was advertised as all original, and it looked nice to me in the pics. When it arrived, it had obviously been refinished. You could see sanding marks under the bluing on the receiver. I contacted the seller, and he said I could return it, but I would have to eat the shipping fees both ways, sales taxes and Gun broker fees. I tried for over a week to contact Gun Broker to see if they could do anything to help me to no avail. So, I kept the gun and left the seller some bad feedback in the form of an F. Later I checked the sellers feedback and apparently GB had changed it to a B. Good Luck getting any help from GB if the seller refuses to fully compensate you.

You used to be able to relatively easily file with a sale cancelation with gunbroker for a returned or cancelled sale. Which would allow for the seller to get the commission fees back. The last time I did that was before they started collecting sales tax. But I would assume that the tax could be refunded too. But due to the way that gun roker collects sales tax. That would be on the seller to refund you.

[Larry Stauch]

Yeah, I wouldn't quibble over $40-$50 bucks for shipping. I have a list of questions I typically ask someone I don't know about the condition of the gun if the pictures don't make it obvious. One of the first things a judge asks in a court proceeding is did you ask about these objectionable features. I KNOW I don't have sleeving in that list, but they want to know if you did your due diligence or did you just write a check and trust the persons forth rightfulness. Buyer beware...Move on.