Blowing the pattern?

[Dylan Rhodes]

Okay, I need some help here. Apologies if this is the wrong forum. I have a parked reproduction 28 gauge that is quickly becoming my favorite gun. Except, with whatever I’m using the pattern is absolutely terrible and I can’t hit jack. After firing 4 shots at a wounded bird in a tree 20 yards away and watching it ultimately fly away I became very curious. I was so perplexed after the first two I actually checked to see if I fired a double squib. Nope.

So after the hunt I hit my pattern board. At 20 yards I had 15 BB’s in a 30” circle with the IC choke and 21 with the modified. . 15!!! And 21!! So I’m left to assume my patterns just are going all around what I’m shooting at. I have 7/8 oz of 5 shot at 1300FPS. I’m curious if it’s to fast for a 26” barrel and it’s just “blowing” apart once it leaves the muzzle. The pellets were generally centered so at this point I have no reason to suspect POI or regulation issues. And yes, I have measured the bore constriction with a proper bore gauge, the chokes are correctly marked.

Obviously I need to try a new load but I’m at a loss for direction. Slower? Solve the problem with more bb’s and smaller shot?

Thanks in advance.

[Donald F. Mills]

Dylan,
I use 3/4 oz of 7.5 shot at about 1150fps. It works well for me in my I.C./mod 26” barrels on my 28 gauge repro. I haven’t tried it at a pattern board but it does well on clays and quail for me.

[Daryl Corona]

Try M/IM and 3/4oz of 7 1/2's at 1200fps. You can thank me later. You loads are too fast and too heavy.

[Dylan Rhodes]

I guess the piece of information that’s missing is I typically use the gun on pheasant. I have had bad experience wounding birds with anything above 7. Perhaps 3/4 oz of 7’s?

[Mike Koneski]

Too fast for sure. Drop the charge to 3/4 oz and the velocity to under 1200 and pattern the shells again.

If you’re shooting preserve birds, #7 should work. I even load #6 or a duplex load of #6 & 7 1/2.

[Daryl Corona]

I've killed a boatload of wild pheasants with 3/4oz of 7 1/2's through a M/F 28ga. 7's would probably work, just tighten your chokes.

[David C Porter]

There are 150 pellets of #5 shot in 7/8oz. You state that you have 15 pellets in a 30" circle. That's only a 10% pattern , that's more open than a cylinder choke. IC choke is 50% & would be 75 pellets. Numbers don't add up correctly

If you are using 7/8oz of BB's on the pattern board there's 44 BB's & your 15 equals 33%. That's equals to cylinder choke.

[Dylan Rhodes]

There are 150 pellets of #5 shot in 7/8oz. You state that you have 15 pellets in a 30" circle. That's only a 10% pattern , that's more open than a cylinder choke. IC choke is 50% & would be 75 pellets. Numbers don't add up correctly

That is my point, where is the shot going? The numbers don’t make sense but they make sense with my kill percentage, experience in the field with this gun, and the wounded bird shenanigans that occurred today. 4 shots at a stationary rooster pheasant from 20 yards unobstructed? The pattern board makes perfect sense to me actually.

I can’t make heads or tails of it. These are factory loads, did they not put 7/8 of an oz in?

[Daryl Corona]

I can tell you from years of experience with the 28ga. that that gauge does not handle shot larger than 6's well. I've found the sweet spot with 7 1/2's and no faster than 1200fps.

[Dean Romig]

Go to #8 shot.





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[Andrew Sacco]

I kill all sorts of pheasants with 1200fps #7.5 in used 2.5" RST hulls. Gun is choked M/F and they die pretty dead.

[Daryl Corona]

[QUOTE=Dean Romig;439394]Go to #8 shot.


Not for pheasants.

[Dylan Rhodes]

They aren’t dieng now so I will try 7.5’s. I have nothing to lose. Right now it’s a clean miss, I just hate wounding birds. My buddy put the one in the tree today with his 20 gauge 7’s.

[Stan Hillis]

Pattern closer than before to see what the pattern is doing. But, I agree that the velocity is too high.

I shoot many different vintage doubles and stay under 1200 with all loads. Around 1150 to 1165 is what most of my guns are regulated for. Go with a heavy-for-guage payload, like a 1 oz. in 20 gauge, and the lower velocity. That combination of low muzzle velocity and heavy payload seems to pattern and regulate best in my vintage doubles.

I have a 20 ga. Sterlingworth Fox Ejector that cross fires to the tune of 8" at 25 yards with 1250 fps, 7/8 oz. loads . . . . both barrels. However, with 1 oz. loads at 1150-1165 fps it puts the left and right barrel's patterns dead atop each other and dead on the POA. Loads just have to be matched to the individual S X S gun for the best performance.

[Timothy Cicora]

What Stan H. Said. I think you are going to have to go and really find out what your pattern is doing with your loads. All the loads and shot shot sizes you are planning on using unfortunately.

[Dean Romig]

[QUOTE=Dean Romig;439394]Go to #8 shot.


Not for pheasants.

I missed that part… :whistle:





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[allen newell]

For me it's 7 1/2s or 6s on pheasants.

[Randy G Roberts]

Burt Becker and the boys in the Fox plant figured out that speed don't kill nor does it result in good patterns, usually. See the attached as copied from the brochure detailing the Super Fox.

[Andrew Sacco]

I kill all sorts of pheasants with 1200fps #7.5 in used 2.5" RST hulls. Gun is choked M/F and they die pretty dead.

These are 1oz loads BTW which for most 2.5" hulls in a 16g is a bit heavy I think but they just work.

[matt koepnick]

We had a CSMC 28 gauge with skeet and IC chokes (measured as such). Wife shot the Win factory 1 OZ loads of 6 shot. Those Pheasants dropped like Thor's Hammer hit em. All shots were at 25 yards over dogs. The recovered pellets had a fair amount of distortion which prob contributed to killing power . Generally 8-10 pellets in each of the birds. Might try some of these shells.
Mattly

[Bill Murphy]

Your next project is to find out where the rest of the shot went. 7/8 ounces at 1300, I'm surprised that your little Repro is still in one piece. Guns like yours are meant for 3/4 ounce at 1200 fps. With some tighter chokes, 3/4 should kill a pheasant if #6 shot is used.

[Dylan Rhodes]

I appreciate all of the insight. tighter chokes is not in the cards, unless someone has a spare set of 28" 28 ga repro barrels for sale? I am going to try 3/4 oz of 7.5 at 1220 FPS and see how she does.

[Daryl Corona]

Well good luck with your 28 Dylan. Unfortunately it seems your barrels are fixed choke which is not a bad thing. What is bad is them being choked as they are. Keep experimenting and you may find the right ammo for your gun. Open chokes don't belong on a 28 or .410.

[Drew Hause]

Randy: re the Super Fox loads. You are no doubt aware that the velocities listed are the "average velocity" over 40 yards, not muzzle velocity.

In a 1927 Western Cartridge Co. flyer “Super-X The Long Range Load” by Capt. Chas. Askins the 12g “Duck Load” (not specified but presumed to be 1 1/4 oz. Super-X “Field”) is described as 3 1/2 dram (38.5 gr. DuPont Oval Powder = 11 gr. / Dr. Eq.); at 1400 fps (at the muzzle rather than 3 feet) and 1000 fps average over 40 yards, with a breech pressure of 3 3/4 tons or about 8,400 psi + 10-14%
3” Super-X “Record” with 1 3/8 oz. at MV 1400 fps with 4.25 tons = 9,520 psi + 10-14%

Super-X 10g 1 5/8 oz. “about 4 1/2 Drams” No. 2 shot Full choke 32” barrel, average velocity over 40 yds. 1030 fps; “up to 13,000 psi” by crushers = about 14,500 psi by modern transducers.
In 2025 Tom Armbrust tested 3 vintage 2 7/8” Super-X 10g 1 5/8 oz. ‘Maximum Load’ at an average of 1300 fps. And 19,166 psi.

[ED J, MORGAN]

for longer range try number 6 shot

[Craig Larter]

These are 1oz loads BTW which for most 2.5" hulls in a 16g is a bit heavy I think but they just work.

Andrew: Please PM me the 16ga recipe. Thanks Craig

[William Machauer]

I've shot Winchester silver box #5s out of my 28s- they dont like 5s!
I shoot 7¹/²s for pheasant, chukar and Huns from my 41, 28 and 20 ga.

I'd pattern those factory loads at 10 yards just to see what they are doing. Then I would contact the manufacturer customer service and state your problem. Could be some issue they aren't aware of.

[GunnerGrilli]

I shoot my 28 ga Reproduction at Wild and Planted Pheasants with 3/4 and sometimes 7/8 oz, 1300 fps, #6 shot with 28" Mod/Full Barrels all day long at Pheasant in Oregon. Never had a problem, and normally I am outshooting folks with 12's and 20's.


Not sure what is happening with your pattern. Sorry to hear that. I would look for a set of 28" Barrels as well that are Mod/Full or close to help with your hunting options. Just my 2 cents.


Thanks,


Bobby

[Stan Hillis]

In 2025 Tom Armbrust tested 3 vintage 2 7/8” Super-X 10g 1 5/8 oz. ‘Maximum Load’ at an average of 1300 fps. And 19,166 psi.

19,166 psi ? Is that a typo?
____

[Dean Romig]

Probably not.





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[Keith Doty]

I've shot up a lot of butcher paper on barb wire over the years with many different shotguns and faster ain't better. I look for 1200 FPS and pattern quality. I'm convinced good uniform patterns kill a lot more birds than fast. We patterned some of the screaming fast waterfowl loads a couple of years ago.......ugly. With some of the 1400 FPS stuff you can fly a small plane thru the holes and ragged dispersion of shot. Slow it down, try lighter loads of 7 1/2 and go back to the pattern board, try different chokes. Find some combination the gun likes before going back to the field.

[Paul Ehlers]

After reading through four pages on this subject I have some random thoughts.

The OP didn't mention if the ammo being used was factory or reloads. In either case the problem could be the type of wads used. Cheap factory stuff can have terrible wadding & I've found some of this bottom shelf stuff to have awful patterns.

The 28ga in general is famous for having great patterning due to it being a square load in 3/4oz loadings. I've tried heavier shot loads only to revert back to the basics of what the gauge is known for. 3/4oz of 71/2 or 6's will get the job done as long as you keep things in perspective for the type of game you're shooting.

I'm thinking that Dylan simply was shooting some ammo that his gun just didn't pattern well & he might simply need to take several different loadings to the pattern board and see what works best through his gun.

I've shot a bunch of early season wild pheasants over the years with a 28ga and loved every minute of it, but I also changed over to a 20 or 16 later in the season when I felt the need to use larger shot sizes when the birds had their full winter plumage & potentially needing to shoot at longer ranges.

Bottom line is to find out what works best in your gun and keep things between the guard rails for the gauge of the gun and the game you're hunting.

Parker repro 28ga guns are light in weight and delightful to carry in the field, but they can also be as tough on the shooter as they are on what you're shooting at because of this. Between being under 6lb's in weight and having a skeleton butt plate, they can have some uncomfortable recoil when shooting heavy fast loads through them. Keep things in perspective & enjoy the gun & gauge for what it is.

[Clark McCombe]

I admit to buying some cheap shells for my repro 28ga.
1oz 6 shot 1220 fps for under $7 a box.
Would these be just too heavy for the repro? They do kick.
I thought being a modern gun, the repro should handle them.
Thoughts??

[Ed Blake]

If I wanted to shoot 1 oz loads I’d use a 12 or 20. Save your 1 oz 28 loads for the Jamomatic Bennelli or Beretta. Slow your load down and use 3/4 oz.

Have you perhaps considered gun fit?

[Daryl Corona]

Clark, what Ed said. This is not rocket science. Less is actually more when it comes to shotguns. Save the 1oz stuff for your 12ga.

[Keith Doty]

My standard 12 ga. load is 1 oz. lead or bismuth, 7/8 in the 16 and 20. On the rare occasion I hunt geese anymore....rhino roller 3 1/2" BBB for the Super X 12 ga. (not my Parkers) and 6K PSI 2 7/8" BB bismuth in my 10s (Parkers).

[Clark McCombe]

I certainly see why they were on sale :)
No more of those 1 oz!
But back to pattern, I’ve been intrigued by the vintage British guns
With 2” chambers - those shells must be really light.
Also I’m curious about “shot string” and how flat the shot hits a target.
How is the barrel or choke altered to affect the flatness of the shot.
Is it more important to have a flat strike or a teardrop shaped impact of the
Shot hitting a target?

[Daryl Corona]

I certainly see why they were on sale :)
No more of those 1 oz!
But back to pattern, I’ve been intrigued by the vintage British guns
With 2” chambers - those shells must be really light.
Also I’m curious about “shot string” and how flat the shot hits a target.
How is the barrel or choke altered to affect the flatness of the shot.
Is it more important to have a flat strike or a teardrop shaped impact of the
Shot hitting a target?

I'm not sure what you mean by flat strike/teardrop impact.

[Keith Doty]

The birds don't care as long as it hits'em!

[Clark McCombe]

Not sure if I’m using the correct term to describe
The idea that not all of the shot coming out of the barrel travels at the same velocity.
Some is a little slower and follows the lead shot to the target.
Somewhere I saw a picture of shot a teardrop effect (or sideways raindrop) to explain
This phenomena.
I’m probably overthinking it all, but still the question,
Is a flat impact more or less desirable than a bludgeon of shot hitting the target.

[Daryl Corona]

There are two schools of thought on this Clark. Some believe in the longer shot string and some believe in the shorter. I for one believe in the shorter. I've found my 3/4oz loads in the 20 and 12 produce good results. All the shot is arriving basically at the same time and is less deformed in setback producing an even pattern. Many shooters just don't have the confidence in these light loads. I do know that the reduction in recoil is a plus for me. Shoot the lightest loads you have confidence in.

[Dylan Rhodes]

I took this gun hunting again today with the new loads I indicated. Results were unfavorable, but I didn’t take a single shot that really should have hit anything. So, this one’s on me. It’s in my head now, so this gun is going in the safe and it’s next date is with an array of shells and a pattern board in the spring.

[Clark McCombe]

Thank you Daryl, I was headed in that direction.
I plan to start reloading this winter.
Soon I’ll be asking about recipes :)

[Andrew Sacco]

My 28 repro was the worst Parker I owned. It doubled and I couldn’t kill a sparrow at 10 feet. Nobody could fix the doubling. I wouldn’t rule out buying another with DOUBLE TRIGGERS as God intended.Of the 3-4 I’ve shot they all seemed to shoot very high.

Now I’m just gonna wait for Koneski to chime in that I miss with everything. What a gomer ; )

[Daryl Corona]

Thank you Daryl, I was headed in that direction.
I plan to start reloading this winter.
Soon I’ll be asking about recipes :)

I've got plenty. Happy Thanksgiving to you and your bride.

[Clark McCombe]

Andy brings up an interesting point - maybe not all Parkers are great.
Good for discussion around the dinner table.
Happy Thanksgiving to all!

[Reggie Bishop]

You are comparing apples and oranges. :bigbye:

[Daryl Corona]

You are comparing apples and oranges. :bigbye:

Amen. Really not a fair comparison.

[Stan Hillis]

Light loads, heavy loads, recoil problems, no recoil problems.

None of this is as important as whether or not the gun likes the load and patterns right with it. Figure that out first. If the load the gun likes is not one that you like shooting . . . . get rid of the gun and find one that does.

Too many S X S fans think they will pattern and regulate fine with anything they stuff into it. They usually will NOT! Occasionally you may find one that is regulated with most any load, but that is rare.

[Phillip Carr]

I wonder how these might pattern?

[J. Scott Hanes]

I wonder how these might pattern?

They may pattern OK, but they WILL give you warts!

[Mike Koneski]

My 28 repro was the worst Parker I owned. It doubled and I couldn’t kill a sparrow at 10 feet. Nobody could fix the doubling. I wouldn’t rule out buying another with DOUBLE TRIGGERS as God intended.Of the 3-4 I’ve shot they all seemed to shoot very high.

Now I’m just gonna wait for Koneski to chime in that I miss with everything. What a gomer ; )

:rotf::rotf::rotf: You don’t miss with everything. That would be silly and I’d tell you to have your eyes checked!! :cool: BTW, I may be a hick but I am not a goner!! BWAHAHAHA!

I do agree with you 100% in that when I get my repro 28g gun it will have double triggers AND a straight grip.

[Dylan Rhodes]

Since we are all having some fun here. What even is the point of a 3” 28 gauge shell? Why does someone need that? Uncovered in my research tonight…

[Andrew Sacco]

:rotf::rotf::rotf: You don’t miss with everything. That would be silly and I’d tell you to have your eyes checked!! :cool: BTW, I may be a hick but I am not a goner!! BWAHAHAHA!

I do agree with you 100% in that when I get my repro 28g gun it will have double triggers AND a straight grip.

Hick I haven’t heard that term in a bit!! And there is no need for a 3” 28 g shell or 20 for that matter.

[Bill Murphy]

I have a box of those 28 gauge WW one ounce loads in my collection. They are 2 3/4" shells. I don't know where I would find 3" 28s.

[Daryl Corona]

3 inch 28 ga loads are similar to those 3 1/2" 12 ga loads. Us Yankees think bigger is better when it actually works to the bottom line of the ammo companies. You can only shove so much lead down a shotgun barrel. Some fellow a while back on the 16 ga website was experimenting with a 3 inch 16 ga load. It's the Indian not the arrow.

[Andrew Sacco]

I am half way through an old box of 1350fps RST 28g 2 3/4” #6 shells. I shoot it out of my Zoli O/U. Pheasants die before the shot gets there. They are a molar rattler at 1oz but man it’s like harnessing lightning. I have no idea how old they are they were given to me.