Information on 10 gauge frame size 4?

[ZacharyGallus]

Hey everyone, I was wondering if anyone knows a lot about the frame 4. Recently I purchased what was listed as a 12 gauge parker from 1887 on an auction. I took it apart and found a 4 on the barrel meaning it can only be a 10 gauge and not a 12. I've tried researching it but can't find much information on the 4 frame other than it doesn't seem to be very common. The weight is 6lbs 9oz which seems pretty light compared to what google says the 10 gauge barrels should weigh. Does anyone know why the only option on frame 4 was a 10 gauge? Were they mainly hammer or hammerless? Any other fun facts about the frame 4? Thanks

[CraigThompson]

What’s the serial number ?

[Brian Dudley]

I have seen personally a few 4 frame 10g guns. They are not very common.

[ZacharyGallus]

Serial is 50279

[Daryl Corona]

Where exactly is this 4 located?

[Bill Murphy]

You will have to provide pictures of the gun in question for us to provide information. Providing markings, all of them, from the gun will be a good start. Where, exactly, is the "4" stamped on your gun? A picture would help if you are not familiar with the parts of the gun.

[edgarspencer]

The numeral stamped on the bottom of the rear lug will indicate the frame size. The numeral stamped on the back corner of the right barrel flat would indicate the grade.

[CraigThompson]

Where exactly is this 4 located?

Bottom of the barrel lug .

[Daryl Corona]

Couild also be the unstruck weight.

[CraigThompson]

Serial is 50279

That number isn’t in the serialization book . I’ve had two 4 frame 10’s the first was an 0 grade 34” and the one I have at present is a Grade 3 32” both are top lever hammer guns .

[ZacharyGallus]

You will have to provide pictures of the gun in question for us to provide information. Providing markings, all of them, from the gun will be a good start. Where, exactly, is the "4" stamped on your gun? A picture would help if you are not familiar with the parts of the gun.

Not having any luck uploading any photos. Will try when I get home but the “4” in on the bottom of the barrel

[ZacharyGallus]

That number isn’t in the serialization book . I’ve had two 4 frame 10’s the first was an 0 grade 34” and the one I have at present is a Grade 2 32” both are top lever hammer guns .

The one I got is also a Grade 2 top lever hammer but not sure on the length. Will measure when I get home

[ZacharyGallus]

Think I figured out the photo situation hopefully
137708

[Bill Murphy]

We are getting comments from more than one poster. "Bottom of the barrel" does not describe the location of the frame number marking. The bottom of the rear locking lug is the location of the frame number. The "locking lug" is in the middle of the two barrels.

[ZacharyGallus]

We are getting comments from more than one poster. "Bottom of the barrel" does not describe the location of the frame number marking. The bottom of the rear locking lug is the location of the frame number. The "locking lug" is in the middle of the two barrels.

Sorry, that's what I meant. The "4" is on on the barrel lug as shown on the Technical Information page on this website.

[Paul Ehlers]

According to the pictures, this does indeed appear to be a four-frame gun with unstruck barrel weight of 6lb 9oz.

The best way to tell what gauge it is would be to measure the inside diameters of the barrel & chamber bores, followed up with a PGCA letter if the factory records exist for it.

[Drew Hause]

As Paul observed

https://photos.smugmug.com/Damascus/Parker/i-J4kHdnk/0/KvS7ZbTjfpNXBN8tvjm9DM6FftB42nWT2H4xZ8MfD/L/Screenshot%20%282816%29-L.png (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Damascus/Parker/i-J4kHdnk/A)

The 'D' usually indicates Parker D3 3 iron "Oxford"
Interesting mark on the L tube I can't ID

[ZacharyGallus]

Interesting mark on the L tube I can't ID

Yeah I noticed that and thought it was odd too. Not sure what it's supposed to be

[Daryl Corona]

Drew,
What is the left arrow pointing to?

[Mills Morrison]

I have a few 4 frame 10's and they are great. You know it when you shoulder them

[Bill Murphy]

Many graded 4 frame guns are 11 pound pigeon guns, made at the maximum weight under early competition rules. Some are lettered to known shooters. Order a PGCA letter to find out.

[ZacharyGallus]

Many graded 4 frame guns are 11 pound pigeon guns, made at the maximum weight under early competition rules. Some are lettered to known shooters. Order a PGCA letter to find out.

That's an interesting fact, I was looking into ordering a letter and debating on doing it or not

[Drew Hause]

At the 1894 GAH (and GAHs thereafter) guns were limited to 12 gauge and 8 pounds. Prior to then the limit was not weight but shot charge; 10g being allowed 1 1/4 oz.

At the First DuPont Grand Smokeless Championship Handicap Live-bird Tournament October 1895 all guns were 8 pounds or less, and the usual load was 1 1/4 oz. shot with 3 1/2 Dr.Eq. Bulk Smokeless powder; gauge was not specified.

The 1898 “Trap Shooting Rules” by the American Shooting Association (courtesy of Randy Davis) listed the following rules:
Charge of powder was unlimited
Shot was limited to 1 1/4 oz. by “Dixon’s measure”
Weight limit:
10g - 9 lbs. 4 oz.
12g - 8 lbs. 4 oz.
16g - 7 lbs. 12 oz.
20g - 7 lbs. 8 oz.

[Bill Murphy]

The 11 pound maximum weight was a relic of the 1880s. Things change. Reverend Drew, I will try to get a reference, but my library is a bit cluttered right now.

[Bruce P Bruner]

Late to the party, 10 gauge 1886 Lifter, frame size “4” on barrel lug.

[ZacharyGallus]

Late to the party, 10 gauge 1886 Lifter, frame size “4” on barrel lug.

Awesome, you’ve got two! Does the “L” on the one mean laminated?

[Bruce P Bruner]

Awesome, you’ve got two! Does the “L” on the one mean laminated?
Yes, one gun, 32” two barrel set.

[ZacharyGallus]

Yes, one gun, 32” two barrel set.

Oh dang, seems only a little over 2000 laminated frames were ever made and throw in that frame 4s weren’t super common it would appear you’ve got yourself a pretty rare frame there!

[Mike Koneski]

That's an interesting fact, I was looking into ordering a letter and debating on doing it or not

We do have info on this gun in the factory records.