ANSLEY FOX'S PARKER DH(E)?

[George Lander]

Does anyone here know the whereabouts of Ansley's Parker DH(E) Pigeon Gun ? A Thread was started over on the Fox Forum and no one there seems to know where it now resides or whether he ever shot a Fox gun in competition.

Best Regards, George

[Dave Suponski]

George, I read that thread with interest over on the Fox site. We would need to know the appox. time that Ansley would have aquired the gun.

[Dean Romig]

Do we know if he bought it new or as a second hand gun?

I would expect Dave Noreen could shed some light on this subject, though he has probably weighed-in with information over on the Fox site.

[George Lander]

Dave & Dean: According to Mike McIntosh's book "A.H. Fox, The Finest Gun In The World" pg. 44: "By the spring of 1900, Ansley Fox had broken away from his partners in the Fox Gun Company of Baltimore, and the parting was apparently rancerous enough that he refused to shoot publically with the guns that they'd built. When he went to New York to shoot in the Grand American Handicap, Ansley Fox took along a 7 1/2 pound Parker 12-gauge and a few cases of Trap Brand shells loaded with 3 1/2 drams of E.C. powder and an ounce and a quarter of No. 7 1/2 shot. The game was 14,000 live pigeons."

Best Regards, George

[Bill Murphy]

Thanks for asking the question, George. Not much discussion about this gun over the years. Maybe now we will get some information.

[Patrick Lien]

Can you guys explain how you know it was a DH(E) with 30" barrels? Is the serial # known?

thanks

Patrick

[Bill Murphy]

Fair question, Patrick. The answer is "I have done my homework." Like my friend Dave Noreen, I have spent thousands of hours and tens of thousands of dollars doing research for no remuneration. I have always given it away. I have given some hints on the Fox forum. Send me your serial numbers and I will tell you (I promise) if you have Ansley's gun. Of course, I will try to purchase the gun, but suspect I will not be successful. I am probably not the only one who knows the number. If the PGCA is anything like the Fox organization, the BOD will trump me because of their access to the records. Ed was right about the "Black Hole of Curatorship", except that he didn't mention that the BOD of any collector organization would be exempt from that "Black Hole". Ed and I have both avoided being put in the compromising position of board member so we could not be accused of unfair access to research material for personal gain. As I have mentioned for a decade, my research files will be available to PGCA as soon as the PGCA research files are available to its members. Comments??

[John Davis]

If anyone is interested, I wrote an article on Ansley H. Fox and his Parker gun which appeared in the Winter 2005 issue of Parker Pages. It was based on articles I found in the American Field. It doesn't mention the serial no. or grade of the gun because I didn't know it then and I don't know it now. John Davis

[George Lander]

John: I believe a number of us here would be interested. I'll try to find that article.

Best Regards, George

[John Davis]

George, if I can find it on my computer at the office I'll post it on here. John

[John Davis]

ANSLEY H. FOX
by
JOHN N. DAVIS

When you think of famous “Parker” shooters, one name that does not come to mind is that of Ansley H. Fox. In Michael McIntosh’s definitive work, A. H. Fox, “The Finest Gun in the World”, he writes:

“Certainly, competition was fierce in the firearms industry. Parker was riding high, dominating the market, its factory reportedly working double shifts. A great many of the best professional trapshooters - such luminaries as James A. R. Elliott, Rolla Heikes, and Fred Gilbert - used Parker guns, and Parker made the most of that in its advertising. Ironically, even Ansley Fox would shoot a Parker in at least one major tournament.”

One can only assume from this statement that A. H. Fox may have shot a Parker but it certainly was not considered his mainstay.
McIntosh goes on to tell the story of Fox’s world record accomplishment at double targets.

“On Tuesday, May 15, he [Fox] was shooting Targets at Monumental Park in Baltimore, at a tournament sponsored by the Standard Gun Club. Someone observed that shooting doubles was the most difficult test of a gunner’s skill and offered a bet that Ansley Fox couldn’t break forty-three out of twenty-five pair.
No one had ever shot that well at double targets, and when Ansley Fox went out to settle his wager late that afternoon, the consensus was that he wouldn’t, either. Odds in the side-betting instantly ran into double digits. What happened next made headline copy in newspapers and sporting journals over half the country. A Baltimore daily, reporting with the breathlessness of a dime novel, had this to say:

The first ten were ground up to powder without a miss, and, after a few minutes’ rest, he started on the second string of ten. When this ten had been completed the score showed not a miss, and when, after the third ten had been shot and still not a miss, the shooters present began to realize that something out of the ordinary was going on. The fourth string of ten was shot, and when this string ended with the score still clean, excitement ran high. All eyes were now turned upon the young Baltimorean, who seemed to be the coolest man in the crowd. With unerring aim, and with quickness that was simply wonderful, the last ten were broken, and with it the world’s record for double target shooting. After many congratulations, Mr. Fox’s friends asked him to shoot at fifty more birds to see what he could run his already phenomenal score up to. He then broke forty-eight out of his next fifty doubles, which score beats the best record ever made by any other shooter. The grand total of 98 out of 100 birds, double style shooting, has never been equaled in Europe or America.”

But what of the gun Mr. Fox was shooting when he ran up this most remarkable score? The gun that he used in what most certainly must be considered the best shooting of his life?
Perhaps the American Field magazine can help to shed some light on this question.

American Field, May 26, 1900, “Mr. A. H. Fox of Baltimore, Md., on May 15, at Monumental Park, on a wager that he could score 45 targets out of 25 pairs, made the phenomenal score of 50 straight, the world’s record on pairs. At the request of friends Mr. Fox continued shooting, and in the next 25 pairs scored 48, making a grand total of 98 out of 50 pairs. Mr. Fox uses a Parker gun and E. C. powder in Winchester Leader shells, factory loaded.”

Mr. McIntosh goes on to write:

“Ansley Fox was on a roll. The following week, on May 23, he broke 152 of 165 targets in an Interstate Association shoot at Richmond, Virginia, losing high-gun honors by a single clay. Early in June, at a tournament that was part of the Maryland Sportsmen’s Show at Electric Park in Baltimore, he won the show championship, the Maryland state championship, and the high-average trophy, with ninety-six percent.”

Once again Mr. McIntosh makes no mention as to the make of gun Ansley H. Fox was shooting during this exceptional time in his career. And once again we must turn to the American Field for the answer.

American Field, June 9, 1900, “Ansley H. Fox, who shoots under the name of ‘Winchester,’ covered himself with glory at the finals of the Sportsman’s Show shooting tournament, at Baltimore, Md., on May 26. In the 100-bird race, two days before, Fox and Malone tied for high honors and the beautiful silver championship cup, each scoring 96 out of the possible 100 clay targets. The tie was shot off on May 25, Fox winning on the score of 48 to 47 out of 50. The cup Fox won was donated by President Fenneman, of the Electric Park Company. It is valued at $100, and represents the Sportsmen’s Show championship as well as the state championship. After the big race was over the shooters shot for the merchandise prizes, the winners being Fox, Maolone, Lupus and Du Pont. Mr. Fox used a Parker gun and E. C. powder, factory loaded in Winchester Leader cases.”

If the foregoing articles from the American Field are not enough to satisfy even the most skeptical of readers as to the make of gun Ansley H. Fox was shooting at the very pinnacle of his career, perhaps we should hear it from the man himself.

American Field, September 29, 1900, “In view of the recent interest shown in the matter, I beg to say that I have referred to my score book and find that my score of 98 out of 100 targets, shooting at 50 pairs, was made with Winchester Leader shells, a Parker gun and E. C. powder. Pensacola, Fla., Ansley H. Fox.”

By August of 1900, Fox was shooting for Winchester and had laid his trusty Parker shotgun aside.

American Field, August 11, 1900, “Mr. Ansley H. Fox of Baltimore, Md., one of the best trap shots in that state, has just closed a contract with the Winchester Repeating Arms Company of New Haven , Conn., and will henceforth travel in the interest of that company. Mr. Fox holds the world’s record on doubles, having broken 98 out of 100, and the record for Maryland on singles.”

Although the Winchester would now be Fox’s gun of “choice” and he would later become famous for the gun which would bear his name, it should always be remembered that it was a Parker with which Ansley H. Fox did his very finest shooting.

[Dean Romig]

Thanks John, for allowing us to read your article again.

Dean

[Bill Murphy]

That is a great article, answering some of the questions about how long and when Ansley shot his Parker. Too bad the American Field research that John Davis conducted did not unearth more information about the gun. I did similar research not long ago from Sporting Field, uncovered the Fox-Parker-Winchester time line, but unfortunately no information about the gun. Other research has uncovered information on the gun, which I will share with the owner of the gun. My generous offer will be temporary. In about two weeks, I will probably decide to continue the search for the gun on my own. For now, send me the serial number of D Grade 12 gauge Parkers with Titanic Steel barrels, made in the 1898 era as defined by the Serialization Book. Unfortunately, a PGCA letter will not identify the gun as having been purchased by Ansley Fox. If you send your serial numbers to my email address, I will reply with a yes or no and any information I can give you about your number. I have already replied to inquiries. If anyone thinks this offer to contribute to the solution of the Fox-Parker mystery is somehow self serving, let me know and I will delete this information and withdraw the offer. I will request that, as gentlemen, responders will give me first right to purchase the gun that has Fox connection if they choose to sell it. wilmrph@verizon.net

[Bill Murphy]

By the way, my friend John Davis has, in the past, assisted me with other research projects and should be congratulated for his books about Parker shooter Fred Kimble and other research he has done. When I clean off my desk, I will post the Parker-Winchester-Fox timeline research I recently did. It will be similar if not identical to the John Davis and Dave Noreen research done on the same subject.

[Kevin McCormack]

I think Bess Edwards has it. I heard a rumor that she traded it for Annie's 16 ga. 0-frame hammer gun. Apparently, she was 'tired of looking at it.'

[Christopher Lien]

I think an Old-Hunter currently has it... I heard a rumor that Ansley's Parker is a DH No safety & No dolls-head gun, #95931.

Best, CSL
_____________________

[Bill Murphy]

Sounds like a neat gun, probably letters to an interesting shooter. It is not my winning number. Fits right into the time period. Could this gun actually be in the CSL family? There is still at least one old hunter out there!

[John Liles]

Mr. Davis,
Thanks for posting the story of the Parker in the Fox's Den. I'm chillingly reminded of Dr. Truitt's performance with the Grave Digger at this years Hammer Gun Event in Sanford. The excitement grew as he ran ran each of the first 4 stations of the 5-stand event. Members of Teams Parker and Elsie alike were holding their breath as he stepped into the last shooting box. First pair dust, second pair smoked, third pair dead-lost. If spectator wishes were # 7 1/2 shot, that last bird would have been history as well! 29 out of 30 aint too shabby, and I'd reckon the targets back in the Day were no harder than what we saw at the Southern.
Sorry for clouding the thread, but it was great being amongst a bunch of rival competitors-all cheering for the same guy!
John

[Ed Blake]

John, are you saying Doc Truitt is a 21st century Ansley H. Fox? One hundred years from now the PGCA will have the Grave Digger on display at the 108th Southern SxS.

[Bill Murphy]

Mr. Liles, don't apologize for muddying the waters of this thread. Dr. Truitt is truly a modern day Ansley H. Fox, at least in shooting ability. Thanks for bringing back some memories of the Southern, which I missed this year for the first time in many years. However, remember to keep your eye on the ball. One of us owns Ansley Fox's Parker and I will tell you who you are if you email me.

[greg conomos]

XX712?

[Bill Murphy]

Sorry, not my number, but good try. No problem for 1898 D Grade owners to use my email address. wilmrph@verizon.net

[Bruce Day]

Over the few years I have been a PGCA member I am aware that many got into the records, such as EDM when he was on the search for the Pres Harrison gun that a descendant friend was using for quail hunting out here. The board is easy to get along with. Have you tried calling some terrific people like Allan Swanson or Art Wheaton and seeing if they would help you? Bruce Day, Parker novice third class.

[Bill Murphy]

Bruce, the only "help" I need is to out the gun. For your information, past requests for minor access to the PGCA copies has been denied me and my fellow researcher, Kevin McCormack. The BOD is not as cooperative as you imply. Mr. Muderlak was not whistling in the wind when he made his reference to "The Black Hole of Curatorship". There are certain access rules for certain members and certain other rules for others.

[Bruce Day]

Well Ed Muderlak isn't going to be answering any questions now but I did look at vol 13 p9 of his Harrison article where he acknowledges Mark Conrads research help.

If its true that some people get help and others do not, I wonder why that would be true. Any ideas?

Bruce Day, Parker researcher neophite trainee.

[Angel Cruz]

Bruce Day, Parker researcher neophite trainee.[/QUOTE]

:rotf::rotf:

[Bill Murphy]

Mark Conrad has been very helpful to me on many occasions in the past. He is one of the good guys.