What makes a skeet gun a skeet gun?

[Pete Lester]

Is it the combination of options; BTFE, ejectors, SST, non automatic safety, 'usually" a straight grip and "usually" a checked butt on V and G's or is it the stampings on the barrel flats of "Skeet In" and "Skeet Out"? I.E. is it a factory Skeet gun if it has the features but lacks the barrel stamps, in my mind no. Nice looking gun though.

http://www.gunsinternational.com/Parker-Vhe-12ga-Factory-Skeet-Gun.cfm?gun_id=100181664

[Bill Murphy]

I won't comment on whether an unmarked Skeet configured gun is a "Skeet Gun". I think you know the answer to that one. However, there are more skeet in-skeet out marked guns than ever left the factory that way. Larry Del Grego would apply that mark, as I recall. His created skeet guns are very close to factory including conversions to factory style forends with rod.

[Michael K. Burnley]

I might be sticking my foot where the food is supposed to go, but I wouldn't call a gun with IC/Full barrels the ideal skeet gun. Just because of the chokes. The one listed above says it is choked that way. Mike

[Dean Romig]

This may be an exercise in hair-splitting, but here goes...

The game of "shooting 'round the clock" (later the field was redesigned because a neighbor's livestock was coming under indiscriminate shot fall), later (1929) to be named "Skeet", was being developed in the teens and was perfected in the mid-twenties and was catching on pretty well in the ranks of upland shooters. During the years before Parker Bros. made the decision to offer a dedicated 'Skeet Gun' a number of guns were ordered with certain features, including more open chokes, to be used specifically for quail, grouse and woodcock and the game of Skeet.
The Parker Story addresses the introduction of the first dedicated skeet guns but I don't believe choke stampings of "Skeet In" and "Skeet Out" are necessarily the only way to truly define a skeet gun.
William Harnden Foster, "father of skeet" shot open choked Parkers all during the development phases of the game of skeet and even well after the game was renamed and may not ever have owned a Parker stamped with Skeet In and Skeet Out on the barrel flats.

[Bill Murphy]

I wonder if the very earliest guns that show skeet characteristics and may be described as skeet guns in the stock books possibly DO NOT have the skeet choke markings? Of course, some approved researcher would have to gain access to our stock book copies. Who can post what they consider a very early skeet choke marked serial number. My earliest is 236,868. Maybe our resident skeet gun collector would post his earliest serial number. In the Serialization Book, the option code for skeet configuration is "14". The earliest 26" gun with option code 14 is #235,944. The next "14" that is not a .410 is #236,029. I will discount the .410s because they may or not be skeet guns. My opinion is that .410 skeets may not be skeet choked regardless of how they are marked. I would be interested to know whether skeet configured and skeet choked Parkers in the early 236,000 range have skeet in and skeet out markings or not.

[scott kittredge]

i think the skeet out(tight choke)is the right and open choke( skeet in) is on the left so the chokes are on the opposite sides. mybe thyat makes it a skeet gun :corn: scott

[Pete Lester]

Looking at the serial number of the gun for sale it is in the serial number range where the skeet in, skeet out markings were in use for factory built specifically defined/advertised skeet gun. However it looks a lot like a "skeet gun".

In my mind a true "skeet" gun would be factory marked with those choked designations. Scotts former VHE was choked full and full and was marked skeet in and skeet out so a full choke would not be reason to not stamp the barrels, would it?

I don't think the gun in question is a "factory skeet gun" technically speaking.
However the purpose of what a gun is ordered for can be different than how Parker marketed a gun.

Scott does have good point, all factory skeet guns I have seen had the open barrel, skeet in on the left which would be another defining feature.

[scott kittredge]

Looking at the serial number of the gun for sale it is in the serial number range where the skeet in, skeet out markings were in use for factory built specifically defined/advertised skeet gun. However it looks a lot like a "skeet gun".

In my mind a true "skeet" gun would be factory marked with those choked designations. Scotts former VHE was choked full and full and was marked skeet in and skeet out so a full choke would not be reason to not stamp the barrels, would it?

I don't think the gun in question is a "factory skeet gun" technically speaking.
However the purpose of what a gun is ordered for can be different than how Parker marketed a gun.

Scott does have good point, all factory skeet guns I have seen had the open barrel, skeet in on the left which would be another defining feature.

left f/f on the shelf until somone put in an order for gun and choke

[Dean Romig]

A very good point Scott. A lot of Parkers left the factory configured differently from their originally manufactured configuration.

[Rich Anderson]

In Ed Muderlaks last book he shows a VHE 20 in high condition that he sold as a skeet gun. It's got all the features of a skeet gun and open chokes but it's not marked skeet in/out on the barrel flats. In PA I looked at a very nice VH 20 with all the features of a skeet gun including the markings on the barrel but it is a Del Grego refinish which made me skeptical and there were no ejectors. My VHE 16 skeet gun has chokes of .010 in each barrel, a DHE 12 skeet marked gun had .015 of choke. Parker would do what the customer wanted and if it has all the features of a skeet gun than to me it's a skeet gun. No one seems to question the viability of a trap gun because it's not F/F, skeet guns don't need to be .003 & .005 (the choke of a GHE 12 skeet I have) to be a skeet gun.

I saw the gun in question at the Southern and its a great gun at a fair price.

[Bill Murphy]

Larry Del Grego would upgrade a non ejector gun to skeet configuration with stamps and they are great guns. Of course, it would be obvious that they did not come from the factory that way. A real skeet without ejectors would be quite a rarity. Another rarity in original skeet guns is a skeet configured, choke marked skeet gun with a splinter forend like the one Ed owned. I foolishly passed on that gun at an Ohio Gun Collectors show years before he owned it. It was a great field used gun that probably never saw a skeet field.

[Pete Lester]

skeet guns don't need to be .003 & .005 (the choke of a GHE 12 skeet I have) to be a skeet gun.

But to be a true factory "Skeet' gun don't they need to have the skeet in/out stampings, option 14, and the more open choke on the left???

There were many guns built to shoot trap but they are not "Double Traps". Same with guns built to shoot skeet, the difference to me is when a gun was built, how configured, stamped, when built and how Parker/Remington was marketing at the time.

[Bill Murphy]

Yup.

[Pete Lester]

BTW Bill thanks from bringing your 3 frame 16ga to PA last weekend. I enjoyed seeing and handling it. Very interesting gun and it handled well regardless of it's weight.

[Bill Murphy]

As we discussed, it would be "One Fine Skeet Gun".

[Patrick Lien]

[QUOTE=Pete Lester;44435]But to be a true factory "Skeet' gun don't they need to have the skeet in/out stampings, option 14, and the more open choke on the left???


There are factory skeet guns that are marked option 5 in the serial # book even though they have a factory skeet beavertail. I don't think option 14 is a must on a skeet gun.

Patrick

[Rich Anderson]

A skeet gun should have open chokes but they could be oredered any way the customer wanted. I have a VHE 20 skeet with a 13.5 LOP:eek: a slip on pad takes care of LOP.

I think the better term would be skeet configured. Checkered butt, SST, BTF, ejectors. Most skeet guns had 26 inch barrels but I have seen them with 28. I once had a GHE 20 w/28 inch tubes, I miss that one.

[Bill Murphy]

I have seen more than one 28" skeet gun. I have never seen one that I thought did not originate in Del Grego's shop.

[Rich Anderson]

The one I had didn't have the telltale DelGrego case color and there was about 40% color on he gun. It was a Remington era production but as I sold it a year ago I didn't keep the serial number.

[Dean Romig]

Here's Parker's definition. Note the options in barrel length, bores, etc.


.

[Bobby Cash]

Is it the combination of options; BTFE, ejectors, SST, non automatic safety, 'usually" a straight grip and "usually" a checked butt on V and G's or is it the stampings on the barrel flats of "Skeet In" and "Skeet Out"? I.E. is it a factory Skeet gun if it has the features but lacks the barrel stamps, in my mind no.


http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk136/2low8s/Floorplate.jpghttp://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk136/2low8s/BeaverTailBarrels.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk136/2low8s/SST.jpghttp://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk136/2low8s/SSTa.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk136/2low8s/Butt.jpg
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk136/2low8s/ButtStockleft.jpg
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk136/2low8s/BarrelFlats-1.jpg
Skeet In/Skeet Out is the icing on the cake.

[Bill Murphy]

Dean, I remember that you have pictures of a pretty nice little skeet gun. Is there any way you can post one or two on this thread?

[Dean Romig]

Bill, I'm trying to remember which gun you are refering to... I have two Parker Reproduction skeet guns, one a 20 ga. two-barrel set, 26" & 28" both marked Q1 & Q2. BTFE, SG, SST and the other, Kathy's 28 ga. PG with BTFE and DT and Q1 & 2. I have a few pictures of original Parker skeet guns but none come to mind as especially noteworthy.