Need help identifying a double gun.

[David Livesay]

A local pawn shop has this gun as a Belgium made 16 gauge from an unknown maker. it has some nice engraving all over the receiver and also Damascus barrels. Here are a few pics, hopefully someone will know something about it.

135767

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[Mike Franzen]

Nice looking gun.

[David Livesay]

On the sides of the barrels is written: Amtlich mit rauchlosen pulver which i looked up and it means,officially with smokeless powder

[Drew Hause]

Belgian likely finished in Germany.
The max. load was only marked 1897 - 1903
2.39 gram powder = about 36 grains of "Schultze" which was a 42 grain = 3 Dram bulk smokeless powder SO that would be the standard 2 1/2 Dram load with 28 gm = 1 oz. shot

https://photos.smugmug.com/Belgian/Proof-Marks/i-zXhLQR2/0/KgjJS8VzwS4jssRrKq2bphBcq93q9jcGbmPNXmqQ2/S/IMG_1686-S.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Belgian/Proof-Marks/i-zXhLQR2/A)

The L bore and muzzle dimensions in mm are marked. R only bore so the choke is less than .008".

The initials are likely the barrel maker but could be the gun maker. ?something J? Are there no initials on the action flats?

Likely 2 1/2" chambers.

Looks like a nice 3 Iron Damas Crolle with remarkable contrast for a 125 y/o gun.

Cocking indicators with a replacement screw in the top lever.

[David Livesay]

Thanks Drew for all that info. For some reason I didn't take a picture of the action flats. Here's a partial pic.

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135773

[Drew Hause]

One of the Janssen Brothers was Maurice if the initials are MJ.
https://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20i%20j%20k/a%20janssen%20gb.htm
Janssen Freres and Fils were big tradename gun makers.

If you go back please check the action flats. Maybe chalk the initials on the barrels.

[David Livesay]

One of the Janssen Brothers was Maurice if the initials are MJ.
https://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20i%20j%20k/a%20janssen%20gb.htm
Janssen Freres and Fils were big tradename gun makers.

If you go back please check the action flats. Maybe chalk the initials on the barrels.

Looks like an NJ to me. If the gun is still there tomorrow I will get pictures of the receiver flats and the initials.

[Brian Dudley]

Buy it. That is a lot of gun for the money. Unless it has some glaring issue.

[David Livesay]

Buy it. That is a lot of gun for the money. Unless it has some glaring issue.

It' definitely not perfect. I did see that the splinter for end tip had been replaced with a hand made piece of aluminum or some other white metal and the butt plate didn't fit exactly so the stock may have been shortened or maybe a non factory butt plate.

[David Livesay]

Just got back from the pawn shop with some more pictures. The shop owner looked at the initials closely under a bright light and magnifying glass and says he thought the initials are MJ. I took a picture of the receiver flats and there are interesting symbols that should tell more about the gun.

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[Steve Huffman]

That top lever screw is no way original is it?

[Drew Hause]

Bingo :)
The JRB is Jean-Baptiste Ronge
https://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20q%20r/a%20ronge%20jean%20baptiste%20hammerless%20gb.htm

https://photos.smugmug.com/Belgian/Makers-Marks/i-rPGKQb3/0/LB7RJm2FZvPJQkzPPJVmWbpWQ6qkGR8RBLPGRMbwb/M/Jean-Baptiste%20Ronge-M.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Belgian/Makers-Marks/i-rPGKQb3/A)

'JM' could be Joseph & Jacques Moray who were damascus tube makers in Nessonvaux
'LC' could be Lucien Clément of Nessonvaux who made the barrels

https://photos.smugmug.com/Belgian/Makers-Marks/i-fpp2vCn/0/KhzNSx3njLjTsw9dQ82kmtbTdP8Dvf557gM2Lw4fP/M/Jean-Baptiste%20Ronge%20%26%20Lucien%20Clement-M.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Belgian/Makers-Marks/i-fpp2vCn/A)

[Drew Hause]

https://www.shotgunworld.com/threads/j-b-ronge.314577/

1912 catalog
https://cornellpubs.com/product/616/?srsltid=AfmBOoot1EXgFpsq7axHqRBYNFh0D6NK4G1HQR7i-mK1zsu3kNiJqEFQ

[David Livesay]

That top lever screw is no way original is it?

I highly doubt it.

[David Livesay]

Jean-Baptiste Ronge, Mr. Drew Hause It is very interesting that you were able to figure all of this out. I greatly appreciate your time and effort. How would one go about putting a value on such a gun. They are asking $999.95

[Drew Hause]

Fun to decipher the marks on Belgian guns, and happy to help.

It's going to be next to impossible to find the sale price of a comparable Ronge, which was a respected maker.
Here's one that sold 20 years ago; much rougher and lower quality but fluid steel
https://www.gunauction.com/buy/6567716

The concern of course is what 'inexpert' gunsmithing has been inflicted on the gun in the past, as evidenced by the top lever screw, and if the barrels are free of defects. The cost of refurbishing the gun may exceed its value.

[David Livesay]

They have had the gun for about 6 months on consignment so obviously not a lot of interest in my small town. I would also be concerned about where to get parts in case a repair is needed.