What do you think of this one?

[Brett Trimble]

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/shotguns/parker-shotguns/very-scarce-parker-aahe-grade-7-shotgun-in-28-gauge-with-26-inch-barrels.cfm?gun_id=103181792

Lovely engraving, are there similar Parker engraved guns? The Parker Bros looks a little different to most, but I’m no expert. Interesting that it’s said to be choked skeet in and skeet out.. on a gun made in 1920. However he doesn’t show any of the markings..

Interested to hear how the experts react!

[Dean Romig]

Where are the pics of the barrel flats and the water table?

The "SKEET IN" and "SKEET OUT" stamps, if they really exist, would ruin any collector value IMHO.





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[Brett Trimble]

Dean, could a gun have gone to Remington for choke work and have been stamped at that time?

[Dean Romig]

Never say never but without any Remington records of it (and there aren't any) it is wide open to anyone's interpretation as to how or why it was stamped that way.

A standard Parker Skeet gun would (should) have a single selective trigger, a beavertail forend, twin ivories (maybe) at the least...





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[Tom Jay]

At that price I’ll buy two

[Scott Gentry]

Regardless it sure is pretty to look at.

[Dan Steingraber]

Beautiful gun. Lots of flowers. I love to have the opportunity to see these guns in detail. Without taking anything away from the wood on this gun, it provides a reference for how good the wood is on so many reproductions.

[Bill Murphy]

No records, too bad. Someone should ask Leroy if the skeet marks are stamped. Not an ugly gun.

[Garry L Gordon]

Thank God it has a short stock! :rotf:

[Jeff Kuss]

Garry,
I'm happy it only has 26" barrels! Otherwise ? :whistle:

[Garry L Gordon]

Garry,
I'm happy it only has 26" barrels! Otherwise ? :whistle:

Looks like we both lucked out…hmmm…or did we(?)

[Larry Stauch]

I asked Mark over there to either add some pictures of the barrel flats or send them to me. But, looking at that rib extention fit I can't imagine that the gun was rebarreled or a barrel added by Parker; or Remington for that matter. Nice engraving, but it's too bad that there are not some animals, IMHO.

[Garry L Gordon]

I asked Mark over there to either add some pictures of the barrel flats or send them to me. But, looking at that rib extention fit I can't imagine that the gun was rebarreled or a barrel added by Parker; or Remington for that matter. Nice engraving, but it's too bad that there are not some animals, IMHO.

Short barrels, short stock, no engraved animals! Ha! We all lucked out. :rotf:

[John Allen]

If I am not mistaken, I owned and sold that gun around 30 years ago. It came out of a big collection in Bowling Green,Ky. I remember the floral engraving with no game scenes. I sold the gun to a customer in Oregon through a dealer in Pa. The collection had some wonderful guns that I wish I had been able to hold on to. A DE 20 gauge Fox 2 barrel set was one I never should have sold. I am sure we all have guns we wish we could buy again.

[Dave Noreen]

That is how Noel E. Money, elder brother of Harold B. Money (De Shootinest Gent'man), ordered his Pigeon Gun from Parker Bros. in February 1895, "flowers no birds".

[Bill Murphy]

Sousa's AAH was also engraved without birds or animals. My AAHE was engraved with nothing. Well, the engraver snuck in some bit of scroll on the sides of the safety, probably hoped it wouldn't be noticed.

[CraigThompson]

Garry,
I'm happy it only has 26" barrels! Otherwise ? :whistle:

That gun “is you” ! You roll in Maine with that one and eyebrows might be raised :whistle:

[CraigThompson]

If I am not mistaken, I owned and sold that gun around 30 years ago. It came out of a big collection in Bowling Green,Ky. I remember the floral engraving with no game scenes. I sold the gun to a customer in Oregon through a dealer in Pa. The collection had some wonderful guns that I wish I had been able to hold on to. A DE 20 gauge Fox 2 barrel set was one I never should have sold. I am sure we all have guns we wish we could buy again.

The one in TPS you have or had was serial number 178209 but this one Merz has for sale is serial number 191767 .

[Rich Anderson]

No animals (cartoon characters) isn't that uncommon. I recently sold an AAHE that IIRC was all floral engraved. Some time ago I sold a BHE live bird gun that was all floral engraved and I have a BHE 20 that's floral engraved.
My AHE 20/28 unfortunately has the deer/stag on the floorplate. I much prefer the floral engraving vs the cartoon characters.

[Jerry Harlow]

The ding in the wood at the top of the skeleton butt plate would have made me cry if I owned it.

[CraigThompson]

No animals (cartoon characters) isn't that uncommon. I recently sold an AAHE that IIRC was all floral engraved. Some time ago I sold a BHE live bird gun that was all floral engraved and I have a BHE 20 that's floral engraved.
My AHE 20/28 unfortunately has the deer/stag on the floorplate. I much prefer the floral engraving vs the cartoon characters.

I’ve been looking for an AAHE with Santa Clause on the floor plate , if I find one I’ll affectionately refer to it as “My Rich Gun” . All jokes aside I like the ones with deer/elk on the floor plates .

[Rich Anderson]

Big game animals have no place on a shotgun. Ever seen a high grade rifle with Quail engraved on the floor plate?

[Randy G Roberts]

As Rich said no animals is not that uncommon and is often noted in the letter. I prefer animals, little ones without horns that is but I can get along quite well without any animals at all.

[Dean Romig]

Big game animals have no place on a shotgun. Ever seen a high grade rifle with Quail engraved on the floor plate?



Too late Rich - What’s done is done. :whistle:





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[Garry L Gordon]

Unique and well done often looks good to me.

[Dave Noreen]

A lot of variety for the Parker Bros. customer to choose from. The Whit 1 guns --

135143

135144

135145

Then this style No. 7 --

135146

[Garry L Gordon]

As Rich said no animals is not that uncommon and is often noted in the letter. I prefer animals, little ones without horns that is but I can get along quite well without any animals at all.

Gosh, Randy, those are some beautiful (and with wonderful stock dimensions) guns!

[Garry L Gordon]

A lot of variety for the Parker Bros. customer to choose from. The Whit 1 guns --

135143

135144

135145

Then this style No. 7 --

135146

Yikes, I now have some serious gun envy. :crying:

[Larry Stauch]

I have the pictures of the barrel flats and watertable. I'm just waiting for their permission to post them on here.

[Mike Franzen]

Following

[Jim Thynne]

This looks like the fabled Alice Congdon gun. From thhat estate in Duluth Minnesota.It certainly looks good to me, My AA had similar engraving!

[Bill Murphy]

Jim to which gun are you referring?

[David Livesay]

Pictures of the barrel flats have been added to the link.

[Bill Murphy]

The skeet markings look very "factory" with one marking encroaching on the barrel weight stamps. Could this be a Runge-DelGrego upgrade? Personally, I don't care, but the price and value would be very different.

[Jim Thynne]

Jim to which gun are you referring?

The 28 gauge AA skeet gun. This may be the gun that shot a intruder in the cognon mansion in Duluth Minnesota. The gun went into evidence and then disappeared. It was thought that a family member was given the gun after the police let it out of evidence. George Flaim and Jack Puglisi both talked about the little gun, It was quiet a story. I use to hang out with these two characters!

[Jim Thynne]

Congdon Mansion!

[Jim Thynne]

And by the way, talk about two characters. They were so much fun!!

[Dean Romig]

The skeet markings look very "factory" with one marking encroaching on the barrel weight stamps. Could this be a Runge-DelGrego upgrade? Personally, I don't care, but the price and value would be very different.


191767 is a 1920 0-frame 28 gauge gun but it’s not in the serialization book and there is no data upon which to base a research letter. Obviously in one of the “missing” books… perhaps in one of the books in the possession of the DelGrego family, eh?

This gun was manufactured six years before Skeet was invented and like sixteen years before Remington/Parker were stamping the SKEET IN and SKEET OUT on the flats.

We’ll never know what happened with this gun… It sure is pretty though.





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[Dean Romig]

Jim, in what year was that murder committed?





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[Larry Stauch]

Merz people gave me permission to post these pictures. I noticed in the book it shows only 5 28 gauge AAH guns; 4 with 28" barrels and one with a 32" barrel. No guns with 26" barrels. And like someone already said the gun was made prior to skeet being invented. These pictures show, in detail, some issues with the printed numbers on the barrel flats, including the over stamping of the frame size on the barrel lug. See for yourselves. And like I said before that barrel extention fit is very suspect to me.
X
X

[Dave Noreen]

Thanks for getting us the pictures, Larry.

It clearly has a WE3 (W = August E = 1936) Remington repair code to legitimize the SKEET IN/SKEET OUT markings.

Wonder what length skeet load it is chambered for --

135195

135196

135197

[Dean Romig]

Right Dave, it might but there are no records of what the service (3) might have been. It could have been to alter and mark the chokes…





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[Dean Romig]

And since we now can see both the single 0-frame stamp as well as the double 00-frame stamp we are lead to wonder what the firing pin spacing is…





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[Bill Murphy]

Dean, where does the information about this gun being a 1920 0 frame 28 gauge come from? Our home page search shows no information. I've never seen an 0 frame 28 with lightening cuts in the frame. I'm sure it's a righteous 00 frame gun. Dave picked up the Remington repair codes that I couldn't see without a magnifier.

[edgarspencer]

Wouldn't genuine Whitworth tubes be individually serialized just forward of the barrel flats?

[Dean Romig]

Dean, where does the information about this gun being a 1920 0 frame 28 gauge come from? Our home page search shows no information. I've never seen an 0 frame 28 with lightening cuts in the frame. I'm sure it's a righteous 00 frame gun. Dave picked up the Remington repair codes that I couldn't see without a magnifier.

Bill, we know the serial number is a 1920 production number.
The two different frame sizes stamped in the barrel lug bring the question of which one is original.
The frame doesn’t give any information but the serial number.
To my mind the barrels are suspect, but not the frame with the lightening cuts found on 00-frame 28 gauge guns and .410’s.

The Remington codes don’t tell us anything about what service (3) was performed… It could have been choke work and Skeet stamps… or not.





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[Randy G Roberts]

Wouldn't genuine Whitworth tubes be individually serialized just forward of the barrel flats?

Edgar, early on as in pre 1900 there was a time when PB did stamp the order number on barrels. This number was not the same as the serial number per TPS. I am not aware of individually serialized barrel serial numbers on Whitworth barrels, maybe someone has such a specimen. I have 3 sets of Whitworth, all are post 1900. Going from memory none have numbers stamped forward of the flats, 1 has what I presumed was an order number on each flat, 1 has an order number on 1 flat, and the last has no numbers at all. These presumably order numbers differ from the serial numbers.

[Dean Romig]

Here you go Randy…

[Randy G Roberts]

Here you go Randy…

Perfect Dean, so some have the serial number and one would presume that the other non-matching number on some would be an order number. Thanks !!

[edgarspencer]

Edgar, early on as in pre 1900 there was a time when PB did stamp the order number on barrels. This number was not the same as the serial number per TPS. I am not aware of individually serialized barrel serial numbers on Whitworth barrels, maybe someone has such a specimen. I have 3 sets of Whitworth, all are post 1900. Going from memory none have numbers stamped forward of the flats, 1 has what I presumed was an order number on each flat, 1 has an order number on 1 flat, and the last has no numbers at all. These presumably order numbers differ from the serial numbers.

Randy, There is a photograph of John Allen's AAH 28 ga, SN 178209, shown on page 332 in the Parker Story, and references Whitworth tube serial numbers 49131 and 49132, shown stamped on the barrel flats. The bottom of page 334, it states "Many Parker guns that we have seen with Whitworth steel barrels have the serial number of the Whitworth tube stamped on the flats of each tube." I guess the key word is 'Many', as opposed to all. I am familiar with one particular AAH 12 ga, where the Whitworth serial numbers (consecutive, not the same as an order number might be) stamped well forward of the barrel flats.
Interestingly, the Parker Story states that Whitworth Barrels were replaced by Peerless barrels prior to 1920.

[Bill Murphy]

Whitworth tube numbers and Parker order numbers are two entirely different things. This gun is way too late to have Parker order numbers. I assume that Whitworth tube numbers are often ground off when striking the barrels. I don't know about the pre 1920 date for Whitworth barrels on Parkers. Are the barrels on Leroy's gun really in doubt? I don't understand Edgar's statement about these numbers being consecutive, as order numbers might be. Order numbers are consecutive to what?

[edgarspencer]

(consecutive, not the same as an order number might be)

I don't understand Edgar's statement about these numbers being consecutive, as order numbers might be. Order numbers are consecutive to what?

Bill, notice the comma, as I was attempting to say Whitworth SNs would be consecutive. I never said a gun this late would have an order number stamped.

[Bill Murphy]

Whitworth tube numbers are either there or not. The Whitworth wheat sheaves are either there or not. I have guns that fit any and all of these possibilities. Leroy's little Parker has none of the above, and apparently its originality as a Whitworth barrel gun is in dispute. Not by me.

[Dean Romig]

My question Bill is, are the barrels shown with both the 0 and the 00 frame size stamps and the ill-fitting doll’s head original to the gun…





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[Bill Murphy]

I don't think the doll's head is worse than some others I've seen. If we think the gun is a fake, built from parts, then someone come out and say it. Same comment goes for those who think it's a Runge-Del Grego gun. Come out and say it.