Winchester 21

[Clark McCombe]

I’m branching out a little.
I see a Winchester 21 listed on GI.
A skeet model - says pristine condition.
I kind of like the way it looks.
Any thoughts?

Thanks

[matt koepnick]

I bought my first Win 21 last spring. It's an early production with double triggers. Weighed in at 7 lbs even. Has 1 1/2x2 1/2x 14 in LOP dimensions. Loved it soooo much I bought my second one later that fall , made the same year with same dimensions. Both have 30 inch barrels. I've looked at sheet models. Prob a lil more open choked and shorter barrels than I normally use .
I'm a huge fan of these long-barreled guns choked .015/.031 or so. Both stamped Mod and Full . I'm 6' 3" so these guns fit me to a tee. And they always perform better that I do. I'm working on another one made in late 30's that's got gorgeous wood with 28 in barrels. It's a single trigger model, and I'm hesitant to buy it as I've sold off all my other guns set up with only one. Just me and my quirks.
I believe you would enjoy it if you're a shooter. It would be interesting to see what the actual constricts are in the bore. Mattly

[Dave Noreen]

I've got both 12- and 16-gauge Model 21 Skeet Guns. The WS-2 barrel is way too tight for modern day NSSA Skeet (.015" in my 1953 12-gauge and .013" in my 1941 16-gauge) really much better choking for the second barrel of field gun.

[John Dallas]

I have never understood why Winchester sold a Skeet Grade gun which didn't necessarily have anything to do with shooting Skeet

[matt koepnick]

Thanks Researcher for the info. I may have to look a little deeper into getting a similar choked Skeet grade as number 3 for the stables... Mattly

[Clark McCombe]

Appreciate the responses. My experience is limited but it seems I seem to break more clays with a gun that is choked IC/ mod vs something more open. Maybe it’s my perception of seeing a clay shattered instead of a few chips flying off.
(If I truly kept score I would be disappointed.)
But this Winchester Skeet has me intrigued. I think a Parker skeet would be a little out of my price range.

[bob lyons]

I picked up a 20 gauge skeet awhile ago in very good condition.
I will post some pictures when I get back.
They are very nice guns I always wanted one and this one came along.

[Jay Oliver]

I have been thinking about a M21 myself lately. Nothing too rare, just a 12 gauge with nice wood, 30" barrels and tight chokes. The two M21s I have shot were absolutely wonderful in every respect.

Good luck with this one Clark!

[Bill Murphy]

Clark, give us the item number of the gun you are considering. We would like to see it.

[Bobby Cash]

I have a pair of Tournament Skeet’s and pair of Trap grade Skeet’s with between .008 and .012 constriction in the left barrel. Terminal Flare in the right barrel, 26” tubes and checkered butts. Superb guns. I’d like to see what you’re contemplating.

https://i.imgur.com/d2fIGIx.jpg

IMO, buyer beware Con Shotgun, CSMC, Standard Manufacturing or whatever the hell they’re calling themselves these days. They’re the worst enemy of Model 21’s since rust.

[Daryl Corona]

Appreciate the responses. My experience is limited but it seems I seem to break more clays with a gun that is choked IC/ mod vs something more open. Maybe it’s my perception of seeing a clay shattered instead of a few chips flying off.
(If I truly kept score I would be disappointed.)
But this Winchester Skeet has me intrigued. I think a Parker skeet would be a little out of my price range.

You are on the right path to breaking targets Clark. An open choke will certainly break targets but won't give you the visual feedback that a tighter choke will. When you just crush a target you know you were in the right place at the right time. Enjoy the journey my friend.

[Dave Noreen]

I have never understood why Winchester sold a Skeet Grade gun which didn't necessarily have anything to do with shooting Skeet

Back in the day, the Model 21 Skeet Gun was for gentlefolks at the country club where Skeet was the game for the well-heeled.

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That early 1940s world-wide unpleasantness brought Skeet to the working man.

Winchester never catalogued a Model 21 Skeet Grade. As originally introduced the Model 21 Skeet Gun was offered in Tournament, Trap or Custom Built Grade. From the 1933 Winchester catalogue --

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By 1936, the Tournament Grade was dropped from the Model 21 offerings and the Model 21 Skeet Gun was then offered in Standard, Trap and Custom Built Grades. From the 1936 Winchester catalogue --

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[William Woods]

I requested a letter from Cody on my model 21 and the letter came back stating "Standard" grade. I called and spoke with someone that insisted that my gun was a "Standard" grade even after I told them that the gun was clearly marked "Skeet" on the trigger plate. I think it was Researcher that clarified in an earlier thread that there were grades within grades on the model 21. So I have a Standard Skeet Grade.

Mine was made in 1946 with 26" choked WS 1 and WS 2 barrells weighing 6lbs. 10 ozs. The gun has a single trigger, selective ejectors, and a non-automatic safety

[Dave Noreen]

Cody and/or the surviving factory records do not seem to be as consistent with the grade/gun terminology as the catalogs were.

[Clark McCombe]

I have a pair of Tournament Skeet’s and pair of Trap grade Skeet’s with between .008 and .012 constriction in the left barrel. Terminal Flare in the right barrel, 26” tubes and checkered butts. Superb guns. I’d like to see what you’re contemplating.

https://i.imgur.com/d2fIGIx.jpg

IMO, buyer beware Con Shotgun, CSMC, Standard Manufacturing or whatever the hell they’re calling themselves these days. They’re the worst enemy of Model 21’s since rust.

This is the one on GI
103162890

[Phil Yearout]

There was a fella on a site I used to frequent that had a 21; fairly early I'd guess with bolsters, double triggers, splinter forend etc. No engraving, action very plain with just the kind of wear you'd like to see on a well-loved field gun. I always thought it was one of the classiest shotguns I'd ever seen.

[Bill Murphy]

My favorite 21s are double trigger, extractor, splinter forend guns. I have a 12, but sold my 20 cheap, years ago, to a shooting buddy who resold it recently for a price I would not pay.

[Stephen Hodges]

Be very careful on this gun as guns.com has exact pictures of this gun listed also for sale. There GI # is 103164595. Something is not right about this.

[Dave Noreen]

How does the seller get 1933 manufacture with a 20800 serial number? More likely late 1940s. A Model 21 Skeet Gun from 1932 trough 1935 gun would be a Tournament Grade Skeet Gun --

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or a Trap Grade Skeet Gun --

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Also, for 1932 & 3 Winchester only cataloged the Model 21 Skeet Gun with a straight grip. The pistol grip Model 21 Skeet Gun first appears in the 1934 catalogs. Most of the pre-war Model 21 Skeet Gun pistol grips were capless, like my 1941 16-gauge Standard Grade Model 21 Skeet Gun --

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but a capped pistol grip was available.

[Bill Murphy]

One gun offered by dealers in PA and way out west at prices differing by $500. I'll take the cheaper one, which is not so cheap. Chokes skeet and IC?? What are the actual choke markings from the factory? Both sellers were careful not to show us pictures.

[Steve McCarty]

I picked up a 20 gauge skeet awhile ago in very good condition.
I will post some pictures when I get back.
They are very nice guns I always wanted one and this one came along.

Ernest Hemingway, the writer/hunter was crazy about Winny 21s. He owned three of them, all in 20 gauge. He gave them to his various wives who apparently did pretty well with them. I've held a few, but never shot one. Some folks love them. They aren't cheap but aren't all good guns?

[Dave Noreen]

In the great book High on the Wild with Hemingway, Papa is mostly shown with his Superposed or a Model 12, but Gellhorn always has a Model 21.

[Steve McCarty]

In the great book High on the Wild with Hemingway, Papa is mostly shown with his Superposed or a Model 12, but Gellhorn always has a Model 21.

In my sorta fascination with Papa, I have tried my best to buy guns like his. After reading "Hemingway's Guns" I have concluded that to buy his guns is impossible, at least for someone with my funds. But some of his guns are rather easy to procure. As an example, I own a Winchester Model 12 made in 1928 as was Hemingway's. He shot his until he declared it worn out. The pictures we see of him holding his well loved Winny model 12 show it worn slick with little color. Mine is too. I also have a 16 which I like even better than my 12. The 16 was made in 1934. He owned one that he gave to his son, Jack. Holding one of my Hemingway guns gives me some ery connection to the guy. Guns can do that.

[Steve McCarty]

In the great book High on the Wild with Hemingway, Papa is mostly shown with his Superposed or a Model 12, but Gellhorn always has a Model 21.

Martha Gellhorn couldn't wait to get rid of the guns that Hem bought for her. Mary, his next spouse glommed onto Martha's Model 21 and liked it. After Gellhorn and Ernie split he would not allow her name to be uttered in his presence. She defeated him and she was a very respected writer. Maybe more than he was.

[Clark McCombe]

Amazing the stuff you learn on this site….
My father photographed Hemingway when it was announce he won the Nobel prize.

[bob lyons]

Clark
My model 21
I was going to order one from the custom shop however life / family got in the way
20 gauge
26 “ barrels
Imp cyl / mod
Excellent dimension
Only took 50 years to get it.

[Dave Noreen]

Nearly 50 years ago I got a Model 21 20-gauge 26-inch imp. cyl. & mod. with ejectors, beavertail forearm and double triggers, from N.F. Strebe who had a shop just outside the Washington, D.C. line in Maryland. At the time it was the only 20-gauge double I owned. About a year later I got a 20-gauge 28-inch Sterlingworth that weighs 5 pounds 14 ounces and the fraction of an ounce over seven pounds Model 21 flowed down the river of commerce. Now, my favorite 20-gauge is a Standard Weight, 28-inch, Superposed that weighs seven pounds!! And, I have a 1941 vintage 16-gauge Model 21 Skeet Gun that weighs 6 pounds 12 ounces.

[Clark McCombe]

Havana, 1954
I doubt my father ever shot with Hemingway, but it would be a nice thought if I acquired a model 21.

[Bill Murphy]

Looks like both Researcher and I bought a 20 gauge Model 21 from Norman Strebe in District Heights, Maryland. Mine cost me $650.00. I was probably being groomed for a bigger purchase. Or maybe he just liked my little pointer pup who was sniffing about the store.