Shooting hammer guns

[Steve McCarty]

I've been looking at hammer guns for sale and am considering purchasing one. However, I have never discussed shooting a hammer gun with anyone who owns one and I have NEVER seen anyone shoot one! Not once! There must be hammer gun shooters reading these pages. So can some of you hammer dudes tell me something about shooting hammer guns and if you do it, why?

[Gary Cripps]

Just another action type. Have shot pumps, semi-auto, levers, hammers and break action. Just need to get familiar with each.

[Stan Hoover]

Hammerless guns are boring 😴

Parker hammer guns are just way more fun:cool:

I honestly feel Parker and some other hammer guns, the lines are just beautiful, engraving, etc….

Only my opinion

[Dean H Hanson]

Steve, I would suggest shooting a hammer gun that you could borrow. It is not for everyone. I took to it right away and love the feel, routine, and just the nostalgia of it. You can purchase a nice shooter for under $1000 and see how it goes. Ya wont lose if you want to send it down the road. I suggest a 1 frame 30" 12 gauge. Good luck with your endeavor.

[john pulis]

Ditto what Dean and Stan say. I prefer a Parker hammer to a hammerless, the nostalgia et al., but it is not for everyone. The sight picture on non-Parker hammer guns is sometimes blocked by the hammers that do not cock below the sightline on the receiver. Good luck.

[Randy G Roberts]

Hammerless guns are boring 😴



Stanley, in the event a boring hammerless gun comes along you do have my number, right? :rotf:

[Garry L Gordon]

Steve, you’re getting good feedback, and you can see there are most certainly aficionados of hammer guns. You didn’t say for what purpose you wanted the gun, and that would certainly make a difference, presenting different matters.

I hunt with hammer guns. Dealing with the cocking is the main difference. On, for example dove or ducks, where you’re generally standing or sitting, it’s okay to have your gun cocked as you see game come in (obviously, being safe around your companions, both two- and 4-legged). I’ve had great hunts on wild Bobs over pointing dogs, but, I’m not personally comfortable using a hammer gun on grouse in thick cover (and with a companion). Some guys carry their guns loaded, cocked, and open. This doesn’t work for me.

I’ve had great hunts with my hammer guns. There is nothing quite like my 30” Cogswell and Harrison 16 bore back action gun which weighs less than 6lbs.

Every lover of old guns should try a hammer gun.

[Stan Hoover]

Stanley, in the event a boring hammerless gun comes along you do have my number, right? :rotf:

Don't be waiting by the phone Randy, all of my boring guns are way too short for your liking:cool:

[Dean Romig]

Steve, if only you lived in New England you could join me at Addieville East Farms in RI and you could shoot any number of my Parker Lifter or T/A hammer guns from 10 gauge down to 16.






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[William Woods]

My first gun, given to me by my maternal grandfather, was a 28 gauge hammer gun. I still have it. I bought a 16 gauge German hammer gun later, still have that one as well. I have used both and like both. My shooting skill is the same with both hammer guns and hammerless guns.......poor.

[Dean Romig]

Do you shoot single barrel shotguns like pumps and semi-autos?
If yes, how is your skill with those?





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[Steve McCarty]

I carry double guns open, and if I can, I slip off the safety. The open action is "safe" after all. When the birds flush I close the action and go to work. It always makes me a little nervous when I see a guy carrying a double gun closed. I wonder where his safety is. I carry a Winny Model 12 with the action open safety off. Birds come up I close the action and go to town. The old "suicide" safety on my ancient Auto 5 is a bit iffy. I put a shell in the chamber and set the safety "on". When I think the birds are about to fly I click the safety off, if they don't flush I click the safety back on, but it is always something that I have to remember to do and I don't really like it. I think that pumps with the safety off and the action open is the safest way to bird hunt, followed close by with a double with action open. Sometimes, and usually the safety sets itself when you open the action. Birds come up you close the action and have to click the safety off with most double guns, but not all.

[CraigThompson]

Hammerless guns are boring 😴

Parker hammer guns are just way more fun:cool:

I honestly feel Parker and some other hammer guns, the lines are just beautiful, engraving, etc….

Only my opinion

I seem to remmember a rather long barreled hammer big gun you had something over 36” that I sure like the heck out of shooting :whistle:

[Steve McCarty]

When shooting an auto I am constantly flipping the safety on and off, because I carry the gun with a shell in the chamber safety on. That is why I don't like the suicide safety becaue it is not as positive as is the button in front of, or behind the trigger. As have most of us I have seen several guys shot while we are hunting. I have never seen anyone hurt, but I have heard a few choice words. I have known one gent who was killed when he jumped out of his pickup and grabbed his gun by it's barrel and pulled it out. The gun pointed at him and the trigger caught on something and the gun went off. The load hit him in the middle of his chest and he was gone. Very sad and he was a very experienced hunter. A farmer and cattleman. Folks, it can happen to anyone!

[CraigThompson]

I have a 26” top lever hammer gun in a bigger bore that’s virtually no choke and very little choke that I took on a quail deal in 2023 , the gun isn’t cut it left the factory at 26” and with quite open chokes or rather lack of choke . I carried that gun cracked open with the hammers back and shells in the chambers and had no issues . I’ve done several tower shoots with big bore hammer guns and again I stand with the gun cracked open hammers back and shells in the chambers . I was told to go ahead and close the gun while waiting for the birds by the guy that puts the shoots on but I was never comfortable doing that .

[CraigThompson]

From the last tower shoot I carried a hammer gun .

[CraigThompson]

Another tower shoot with a different big bore hammer . The second picture is the first 8 gauge I acquired and the first feathered or furred things I killed with it again in WV at a tower shoot .

[Steve McCarty]

So, after reading many posts here I have decided to buy a Hammer gun that I found on Guns International site. I emailed the sellor and he has not replied to me yet, but i think the sale will to thru. Now for a description of the gun. It is a W.C. Scott 12 F & F made in 1885 according to the site. "C" shaped hammers, Damascus barrels, very pretty wood. So we'll see. Why did I buy a hammer gun? Someone here mentioned that hammer guns can be carried, open with the hammers cocked and that sounds good to me. Sounds safe and unlikely to try to shoot while on safe, which we all have done and hate. Cost? $1500 plus shipping. Not too bad. Also the C shaped hammers look like when cocked they will be out of the way and out of my vision, something else I like. I have owned hammer guns before, but you know what? I cannot recall ever shooting one. When I was in the hospital last year I sold most of my shotguns, thinking it was curtains. I let some of my favorites go. I'm rebuilding my collection. It's fun.

[Steve McCarty]

Another tower shoot with a different big bore hammer . The second picture is the first 8 gauge I acquired and the first feathered or furred things I killed with it again in WV at a tower shoot .

Wow! Very nice. Great birds and what a nice looking shotgun. The gun I just bought (I think.) looks about like that one. A W.C. Scott F and F. I'm pondering opening the chokes, but I think I'll shoot it first and see what happens. Just for grins, I'd rather not touch the chokes, but I have in the past. Opened my Elsie to Cyl/Mod.

[Dave Noreen]

I've owned two hammer guns for over two decades and have never fired either.

One I bought because of rarity, a Quality 2, from the short-lived Parry Arms Co., Ithaca, NY. Just had to have Parry's rear-acting under-bolt --

134553

The other an Ithaca NIG with just too much condition to leave on mumblin' Gary's table at Syracuse --

134554

[Steve McCarty]

Neat Hammer Guns Researcher! I'm looking forward to my new W.C. Scott hammer gun. For years I shot an original 1861 Musket. I still own it. I shot percussion revolvers for years too. One an original '51 Navy. A very nice shooter, an early early number pistol. But my favorite BP pistol is a Ruger Old Army. Now those, while modern, are wonderful shooters.

Modern shooters? A few. A nice Winny Model 70 in 270. With that rifle, I need no other. I shoot it with open sights. A Savage 99 in 300 Savage. Hard to find ammo for it. An old Winny '73 in 32/20. Made in 1883. Neat rifle and like new. I guess it does not qualify for a "new rifle". A Mannlicher Schaneaur (no one can spell that word) in 30'06. I load that little rifle like a cannon and take cover when I touch it off.

[CraigThompson]

Wow! Very nice. Great birds and what a nice looking shotgun. The gun I just bought (I think.) looks about like that one. A W.C. Scott F and F. I'm pondering opening the chokes, but I think I'll shoot it first and see what happens. Just for grins, I'd rather not touch the chokes, but I have in the past. Opened my Elsie to Cyl/Mod.

I had three Scott’s a 10 that was my grandfathers and a 12 an 20 that previously were owned by a Mr. Peters of Peters Cartridge fame . But they weren’t hammer guns but rather crystal indicator guns . The 12 and 20 are gone but the 10 will be with u til they throw me in the box .

[Mike Koneski]

When we’re guiding a bird hunt and hear a hunter click his safety on and off a lot (usually on a pump or semi), that hunter is asked to leave the field. Trust me, even with hearing loss we can hear the tell-tale clicking of the safety.

I’ve hunted a lot of birds with a hammer gun and it’s carried cocked and action open. Keeps it safe.

[Bill Murphy]

Cocked and action open has been my hammer gun system for many years.

[Dean Romig]

I always carry my hammer guns cocked with the action open in the field.

Further, when shooting clays, i will always cock my hammers before closing the breech… Cocking hammers after closing the breech on live shells leaves open the possibility of the hammer slipping off your thumb and causing an unintentional discharge.





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[Harold Lee Pickens]

I do hunt grouse with hammer guns, I have 3 20s, but only do so when hunting by myself. Otherwise it's a 20 Parker VHE or a 28 Ugartechea or Dickinson

[Phil Yearout]

OK, I'll be the philistine here. Hammer guns just have never interested me, for a number of reasons - one of which is that I have enough trouble just getting my safety off :). They are pretty to look at though; wouldn't mind having one over my fireplace :cool:.

[Jay Oliver]

I am late to the conversation on this one! Steve, as you have read in the replies it's time for you to get a hammer gun...

I enjoy the history, quality and craftmanship that comes from a nice hammer gun. The Parker Lifter was such a great and ergonomically thought out design that I recommend you start there.

Shooting a hammer gun is just fun. Whether a double on clays or taking these treasures out in the field, these guns are just too much fun. I feel I shoot a hammer gun just as well as any other type of shotgun.

Once you get one, I will talk to you about shooting all brass black powder shells. like these guns would have shot when new.

Let us know when you get one :)

[Stan Hoover]

Further, when shooting clays, i will always cock my hammers before closing the breech… Cocking hammers after closing the breech on live shells leaves open the possibility of the hammer slipping off your thumb and causing an unintentional discharge.

I'm surprised how many guys I see cocking the hammers with the gun closed:shock::knowbetter:

But when shooting certain hammer guns, hammers can only be cocked after lever is too the left, so no other way

[CraigThompson]

Further, when shooting clays, i will always cock my hammers before closing the breech… Cocking hammers after closing the breech on live shells leaves open the possibility of the hammer slipping off your thumb and causing an unintentional discharge.

I'm surprised how many guys I see cocking the hammers with the gun closed:shock::knowbetter:

But when shooting certain hammer guns, hammers can only be cocked after lever is too the left, so no other way

It took me a while to get used to closing the gun with hammers cocked . I was always a bit worried that a hammer might fall when closing . About the only negative I’ve had with a hammer gun was a Grade 1 top lever 16 gauge 30” that a couple times doubled on me . But the following day at the shop that SOB was apart and about four strokes with a file cured that BS !

[Steve McCarty]

I had three Scott’s a 10 that was my grandfathers and a 12 an 20 that previously were owned by a Mr. Peters of Peters Cartridge fame . But they weren’t hammer guns but rather crystal indicator guns . The 12 and 20 are gone but the 10 will be with u til they throw me in the box .

Years ago I read everything that Ernest Hemingway wrote and I became a fan. Then I read three biographies (Baker, Hoochner and Hemmy himself ("A Moveable Feast") A few years ago I bought the first and then second edition of "Hemingway's Guns". Twenty years ago I started buying guns like Hemingway's. After a while I gave up trying because Hem had just too many, but I got a Winchester Model 12, a 16 gauge Auto 5, a nice engraved O/U, a .22 Winchester model 62, a Mannlicher Schoenauer (In '06), a Winny Model 70 (I'm pretending it's a Griffen and How, Springfield '06). Mine is in 270. Now I have a W.C. Scott which was Hemingway's favorite shotgun and the one he ended his days with. His wasn't a hammer gun. It was a double demascus, side lock engraved Model B. I think it was F & F. He was a great fan of Winchester Model 21s (20 gauge) which today are expensive and I'm not too wild about them. I have a Remy 1900 double which I like. A nice, light 12, steel barrels. BTW the gun that Hemingway blew his brains out with (and all over the little room he did the deed in) is no longer. Mary (his fourth and final wife) gave it to a handyman who cut it up and buried the bits in a field. He kept a few small pieces. People first thought it was a Boss, but it wasn't. It was a W.C. Scott.

As I age my former fascination with E.H. has waned. I think he was essentially a jerk. I read somewhere that all "real men" would like to either be like Hemingway, or be liked by him. Today, I'm not so sure. He owned some nice guns tho.

[Dave Moore]

While not a Parker, I just got this nice hammer gun. A Lindner Daly mfg in about 1888. I too am in the group that carries the gun cocked with the action open. Another thing is that I always cock the gun with the action open as well, one time I had the hammer slip under my thumb while cocking the hammer.

[Steve McCarty]

What a wonderful shotgun, Dave. I remember about decade (2) ago meeting a guy in a gunshow who told me that Linder guns are the very best ever. I looked closely at them. Most (all) were out of my price range, but what a nice gun! My W.C. Scott looks quite a bit like your beautiful Linder. It'd be fun to go shooting them with you. I was just rooting around in my garage and ran across a case of RST 12s that I bought years ago. What a nice surprise! As a fan of Double Gun's guru Sherman Bell I shoot standard shells in my demascus guns, but I kinda feel better shooting RST.

[Lloyd McKissick]

Gentlemen:

Hello! I just took delivery of a new "toy".

http://i.imgur.com/5UnQeoih.jpg (https://imgur.com/5UnQeoi)

http://i.imgur.com/6rxffhzh.jpg (https://imgur.com/6rxffhz)

Is this the right place to discuss these sort of things?

I know that it's a mostly-unadorned #1 Frame 12-bore that was completed in 1887, I also know that it is referred-to as being a "Fish Tail" gun, it has 30-inch "Twist" tubes and an English stock. I intend to hunt it, so because of it's reportedly 2 5/8-inch chambers I will be using low-pressure 2 1/2-inch shells in it (RST). The tubes have adequate thickness (26k in the thinnest section) and are not pitted. I own several other Damascus hammer guns (American and otherwise) so this isn't a new adventure for me. I have a copy of one of Mr. Muderlak's books (Old Reliable) but it's not giving me very much about the technical nature of this artifact.

This gun has no grade designation marked upon it and there are only minimal stampings on it's barrel flats (I'm used to English guns), including a capitol "T" with semi-circles over and under it, and a big 3 with a smaller 12 next to it. I'm presuming the the "T" is for the "Twist" form of Damascus tubes and that the barrels originally weighed 3lbs12 upon completion?

Can anyone here educate me further on the fine points of this old Parker hammergun?

[Lloyd McKissick]

http://i.imgur.com/foYi5heh.jpg (https://imgur.com/foYi5he)

http://i.imgur.com/ZzgP0Kch.jpg (https://imgur.com/ZzgP0Kc)

Researcher (& Dr. Drew) here will likely recognise some of this photography, but I think hammerguns are a literal blast to own & hunt with.

http://i.imgur.com/v8DIGBCh.png (https://imgur.com/v8DIGBC)

We kill a number of ruffed grouse every year at our lake house in Minnesota, and some are even taken with hammerless guns...

[William Woods]

Another tower shoot with a different big bore hammer . The second picture is the first 8 gauge I acquired and the first feathered or furred things I killed with it again in WV at a tower shoot .

That first gun sure has a nice buttstock. Is it factory or replacement?

[CraigThompson]

That first gun sure has a nice buttstock. Is it factory or replacement?

That’s original and a nice shooting 10 . That guns in really good shape overall . The only restock I have is this one , it started life as a PG then when restocked changed to straight grip , it was also sent to Belgium to have a set of fluid steel 3 1/2” chambered barrels fitted to the gun and once back here the new barrels got Briley thin wall screw ins . So now it’s kind of a bastard two barrel set .

[William Woods]

That’s original and a nice shooting 10 . That guns in really good shape overall . The only restock I have is this one , it started life as a PG then when restocked changed to straight grip , it was also sent to Belgium to have a set of fluid steel 3 1/2” chambered barrels fitted to the gun and once back here the new barrels got Briley thin wall screw ins . So now it’s kind of a bastard two barrel set .

That is the gun I was referring to, really nice looking gun.

[Lloyd McKissick]

From my further reading here, it would appear that my recent acquisition is a Grade O, Quality U gun (am I right about that?). Rather a plain, entry level unit, but in very sound shape overall (& not bad for 138 years old). By comparison to some of my other American hammer guns (LC Smith & Ithaca) it measures up very favorably. I will be shooting it today for fit and function. Looking forward to that.

[Dean Romig]

You would be fine shooting 2 3/4” low pressure shells in your Grade-0 Parker. Your chambers, if originally cut to 2 5/8” were cut for 2 3/4” shells. The practice of cutting chambers 1/8” shorter than the (fired) shell length was to make for a better gas seal in the cone.

You are correct in your other assumptions though we would refer your Twist barrels as a type of composite rather than a type of Damascus… but many people use the identification term you used so that’s certainly okay.






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[Lloyd McKissick]

Thank you Mr. Romig, appreciate that input.

"Composite" instead of Damascus for a "Twist" description eh? Ok, I also have an early Best Laminated Steel LC Smith gun, is that considered a "composite" variety as well?

Also, in earlier discussions here I see the subject of hunting with the hammers cocked but with the gun being open. I have tried that and found it to be somewhat awkward and even slow. It may be a blasphemous admission here, but if I'm alone (and on mostly clear and level ground), my tubes are "hot" (i.e., gun closed, at port arms, hammers cocked). Hunting ruffed grouse with a hammergun almost demands this approach.

Mind you, this is only when things are feeling "birdy". If I'm hunting with a partner, my hammers are down until either a point or a flush are detected (or I've reverted to using a hammerless weapon).

Edit to add: as my footing inevitably becomes less-sure as I age, then I'll further revise this practice (or abandon it altogether).

[Dean Romig]

IMO any gun barrels manufactured with alternating blades or wires of iron and steel rather than “fluid steel” are by definition composite.





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[Lloyd McKissick]

Fair enough, but where does the use of the term "Damascus" then become appropriate? Only for 2-bar, 3-bar, or Crolle?

So...you're a Setter man?

http://i.imgur.com/ylJ3ttkh.jpg (https://imgur.com/ylJ3ttk)

[Dean Romig]

IMO the term Damascus describes alternating bundles of blades or wires of iron and steel twisted together and wound in groups of two, three, four, five or six around (hammer welded) a mandrel to form some kind of crolle pattern (“pattern-welded”). Bernard Steel barrels fall into this category as the same method is used in making them. Twist and Laminated are not…

Drew Hause may come on and give us his opinion on this. I always welcome and respect his contributions on this subject, as it is his forte.



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[Dean Romig]

Yup, I’m definitely a setter man but I lost my sweet Gracie in January of ‘24 to cancer at age 9 1/2 and chose not to take her grandson when he was offered to us. I’m 77 and wouldn’t do a young setter justice in the field…



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[Jay Oliver]

I have always looked at this as Dean posted earlier. Damascus is a type of composite barrel...

[Lloyd McKissick]

Mr. Romig: Never easy to lose a good dog (& a longtime family member), my condolences.

I'm not disagreeing with your assessment (as technically they are all "composites"), I'm just trying to understand the distinctions.

I already knew that laminated steel was a different creative process then more-standard Damascus forms (& clearly, different visually as well). Twist, however, is/was (at least as I presently understand it) technically the same as the other Damascus types, but it somehow doesn't/didn't include the added effort up-front (more-complex stacking before forging and then twisting) to get those more-intricate and complex patterns, and because of that it was always less-expensive (less human effort involved equals less cost to manufacture) and was accordingly, usually deployed on the more entry-level guns. To your point, however, "Twist" is clearly visually different from the others as well...so you might be onto something here.

http://i.imgur.com/3PgDgOYh.jpg (https://imgur.com/3PgDgOY)
3-Bar Damascus
http://i.imgur.com/rkUVGNah.png (https://imgur.com/rkUVGNa)
Twist
http://i.imgur.com/T5sFlbKh.jpg (https://imgur.com/T5sFlbK)
Laminated Steel

The odd thing here however, is that while "Twist" was always considered to be the least "strong" of the Damascus variants, Laminated Steel is/was considered to be the "strongest" of them all, with upwards of 70% steel in its composition. The Proof House tests in England in the early 1890s also bore that out.

It'll be interesting to hear what Dr. Drew has to say on the subject.

[Dean Romig]

I believe you’re probably right concerning the process of manufacturing Twist tubes.






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[Lloyd McKissick]

It's interesting to me to see that even here, folks are still frightful about using "composite" shotgun barrels (as you call them). I've owned, shot, and hunted going-on a dozen of these Damascus guns since those Sherman Bell articles were published in the mid-1990s and I've never had an issue with any of them. Fear is a funny thing, isn't it, even in the face of solid scientific (& even British) proof.

So-many guns had their beautiful Damascus barrels butchered or replaced just so they could be sold here....it's just a shame. Oh well, it made for exceptionally good buys on those guns for me for many years (I suppose I should be greatful for the whorish "sporting press" [doing the bidding of the big gunmakers during the Great Depression] for publishing those baseless articles in the 1930s and 40s ).

[John Dallas]

Cynic that I am, I keep imagining that somewhere there was a letter circulated to all the gun/barrel manufacturers that said "Now that we know how to make cheaper one-piece barrels, let's all send out warnings about how unsafe composite barrels are, and we'll all make more money"

[Lloyd McKissick]

Big D: you're so right, they couldn't get rid of Damascus barrels fast enough after fluid-compressed steel became cheaply available.

I'm drawn to them because they're artistically beautiful, they function for me flawlessly, and they can't be replaced anymore.

When you talk about "lost arts" they're a great example of that. Old timers used to say that they were quieter than fluid steel to shoot in that they didn't "ring" as loudly...well, maybe. I suspect that was from the charges of powder being used in them and not so-much the barrels themselves, but...maybe.

http://i.imgur.com/L8UVZsGh.jpg (https://imgur.com/L8UVZsG)

The 3-bar Damascus tubes on my Syracuse-styled Elsie here couldn't be prettier to me and I have several English guns where the Damascus is absolutely gorgeous.

http://i.imgur.com/iufhJ4fh.jpg (https://imgur.com/iufhJ4f)

Such as this very early boxlock from George Newnham (my boys gun, it weighs 6lbs2!) I wish he'd leave the poor Sprucies alone...

http://i.imgur.com/Y43YhFyh.jpg?2 (https://imgur.com/Y43YhFy)

[Dean Romig]

I believe it is because the transmission of shock waves along composite barrel tubes is somewhat ‘deadened’ by the dissimilar metals.





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[Lloyd McKissick]

Mr. Romig: Excellent theory!

You, Sir, must have a science background, engineering maybe?

[Dean Romig]

Mr. Romig: Excellent theory!

You, Sir, much have a science background, engineering maybe?

Nope… just a bit of rational common sense.





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[Dean Romig]

Lloyd, that third gun you pictured must be one of those swamp-ribbed English guns. Can we see a pic of the muzzles and rib?





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[Bill Murphy]

That's the best looking swamped rib I have ever seen.

[Lloyd McKissick]

Let me see what I can do...

http://i.imgur.com/1Lg4J12h.jpg (https://imgur.com/1Lg4J12)

http://i.imgur.com/GS7N3uKh.jpg (https://imgur.com/GS7N3uK)

http://i.imgur.com/tk05ftlh.jpg (https://imgur.com/tk05ftl)

It's been through proof 4 times...

I don't have a muzzle shot handy I'm afraid. IIRC it looks quite standard at the front end.

FWIW: that recoil pad is covered in elephant hide.

http://i.imgur.com/r7wzsJgh.jpg (https://imgur.com/r7wzsJg)

[Lloyd McKissick]

ok, here we go...

http://i.imgur.com/ZtUjA58h.jpg (https://imgur.com/ZtUjA58)

http://i.imgur.com/mwYJ7jZh.jpg (https://imgur.com/mwYJ7jZ)

http://i.imgur.com/Nj43Zj8h.jpg (https://imgur.com/Nj43Zj8)

30-inch 3-Bar Damascus but only 6lbs2. The action is very petite (almost like a Skimin & Woods gun) with a very thin "diamond" shaped wrist and tapering action-bars under the tubes. As I mentioned earlier, it has been thru proof 4 times since 1882 (in both houses in England) and it's been honed mercilessly. The tubes are at 17 thou at one spot about a foot from the muzzles, so it needs careful (& prudent) use. But on a bluebird day in the grouse woods up north...it's almost magic.

http://i.imgur.com/ABTNOf2h.jpg (https://imgur.com/ABTNOf2)

[Seth Mackay-Smith]

I'm interested that pretty much everyone carries their hammer guns open and cocked because, of course, a hammerless gun is cocked when opened and will still be cocked when closed.

General question: do you also carry your hammerless guns open? I'm not making a case for changing your habits, but more interested in the reasoning if you carry your hammerless gun closed during a hunt but carry your hammer guns open during a hunt.

[Dean Romig]

BEAUTIFUL example of a British swamped rib gun!!





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[Lloyd McKissick]

Thankyou Mr. Romig.

Seth: I discoursed on this subject earlier here. I mainly carry my hammers cocked and locked. There are modifiers to all that and I discussed them back on page 5 here.

[Seth Mackay-Smith]

Lloyd: thanks, yes, I had read that but per my question I was more looking for discussion on the reasoning behind hunting with a hammer gun broken if you hunt with a hammerless gun closed.

What I read from you was more a discussion of hunting grouse with a hammer gun cocked and closed, correct?

[Dean Romig]

Carrying a hammer gun cocked and open is safer than carrying a hammerless gun closed with the safety “on”(?).





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[Lloyd McKissick]

The better English sidelocks (& their clones) might be the safest (with their intercepting safeties) but Mr. Romig is correct, if the hammer cannot reach the shell, it can't go off.

If you can safely bridge the hammers and cock them upon mounting the gun then that would be the superior way to do it but...most cannot do it safely or effectively. All I can muster is one hammer quickly, which is usually sufficient (if I'm hunting with a partner or partners w/dogs). Safety is paramount here and no bird is worth an accident.

[Seth Mackay-Smith]

I can see I haven't been clear; sorry. (Or maybe the question flew by as people read it lol)

My question arose because I saw several responses explicitly saying that they hunt with hammer guns cocked and open, while I just haven't run across much of anyone noting that they hunt with their hammerless guns open - which amounts to the same thing as having a hammer gun cocked and open.

What I specifically asked was for a response from people who hunt with their hammerless guns closed, but their hammer guns open. Haven't seen any replies addressing my question in the short time since I've asked, but maybe no one falls into that category.

[Garry L Gordon]

I can see I haven't been clear; sorry. (Or maybe the question flew by as people read it lol)

My question arose because I saw several responses explicitly saying that they hunt with hammer guns cocked and open, while I just haven't run across much of anyone noting that they hunt with their hammerless guns open - which amounts to the same thing as having a hammer gun cocked and open.

What I specifically asked was for a response from people who hunt with their hammerless guns closed, but their hammer guns open. Haven't seen any replies addressing my question in the short time since I've asked, but maybe no one falls into that category.

Seth, I hunt with hammer guns and hammerless guns closed. Hammer guns get cocked over points when ready to flush. I always tell any companions the status of my hammers, especially careful to let them know when I uncock them (and encourage them to ask me if I forget to say something). Hammerless guns are carried with the safety on until I mount the gun for a shot. It’s a natural movement to slide off the safety as the gun comes up.

I don’t generally use hammer guns for grouse, but I’m sure that if I did so in the tangles we hunt, I would forever be dropping shells and doing extra gyrations to maneuver a broken gun through brush. :banghead:

[CraigThompson]

I'm interested that pretty much everyone carries their hammer guns open and cocked because, of course, a hammerless gun is cocked when opened and will still be cocked when closed.

General question: do you also carry your hammerless guns open? I'm not making a case for changing your habits, but more interested in the reasoning if you carry your hammerless gun closed during a hunt but carry your hammer guns open during a hunt.

I’ve had a couple hammerless no safety guns and I’ve used them at tower shoots . Standing at the peg typically I have the muzzles resting on the toe of my boot with the gun cracked open . And typically if the gun has a safety I wait with the gun closed not on my boot toe and the safety on .

[Bill Murphy]

OK, here it is. Some of us hunt with hammer guns cocked because they are slow to cock on the rise. They are open because hammer guns do not have a safety. Kind of end of the story. However, a hammer gun (closed) is pretty fast to get into action on the rise if the shooter cocks the left hammer on the flush and cocks the right hammer once the gun is at the shoulder. This is the system I choose to use.

[Seth Mackay-Smith]

Nice range of responses here. Thanks, gents. Appreciate the insights.

As far as Parkers go, I only own one hammer gun but I will never own a gun that I'm unwilling to take in the field, so it's useful to understand why these are discussed differently. Also useful to have different methods ready if they're required for different quarry, as discussed here re grouse.

[Phillip Carr]

I now hunt with all of my double shotguns SXS and OU’s open. I did not always do this but it’s a habit I have gotten into. Most of my hunting partners also hunt this way.
The main reason is almost all of my hunting is done over dogs and generally when one of our dogs goes on point we will work our way to them as quickly as we can.
Many of the points, are over a hundred yards out and require moving swiftly to the dogs. In the difficult terrane we hunt, this results in a higher chance for a slip or fall.
When we get to a point where the birds will flush we close our guns.
We also train the way we hunt.
There is a lot going on when you are training young dogs or tuning up old ones.
I really can’t think of a time off hand where I missed an opportunity for a shot due to struggling to get my gun closed unless it’s after firing both barrels and a late flush comes up while I am struggling to reload.
When closing our guns and it may seem so obvious, make sure the barrels are pointed in a safe direction and barrels are then pointed up when approaching the dogs.
I always go over this with guys I take out that are not familiar with bird hunting over dogs.
Many have been taught to keep your gun barrel pointed safely down. Unfortunately walking up on the dogs on point with the barrels down especially with other hunters results in a person raising the barrel through the dog's position on the flush. Increasing the chance for a dog to be shot should an accidental discharge happen.

Missed birds just add to the great memories of the hunt. An accident with a dog or a hunting partner is a scaring memory none of us want to experience.
Different types of hunts may require different safety measures but this is the way I do it.

[Seth Mackay-Smith]

Yes. The number of times I've gotten an unexpected adrenaline rush from hunting with guys who "know guns", be they cops or just longtime hunters, I couldn't count. I really like seeing what other folks do to keep safe, as it helps show that is not about how much you've shot - it's about respecting the situation and those you hunt with.

[Bill Murphy]

I have hunted with people who didn't know how to handle guns, I have shot skeet with people who didn't know how to handle guns, I have shot competitive box birds and Columbaire with people who didn't know how to handle guns. If any of those people look like they are going to harm someone, it is up to me to handle the situation, and I always have. I know people who have shot dogs, and if I had been on the same hunt, they never would have shot a dog. The fellow who shot a dog was a friend, a friend who didn't know how to handle a gun, even though he owned hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of shotguns. I can't imagine what a Columbaire thinks of the gun handling that sometimes goes on when he is throwing birds.

[Steve McCarty]

Steve, I would suggest shooting a hammer gun that you could borrow. It is not for everyone. I took to it right away and love the feel, routine, and just the nostalgia of it. You can purchase a nice shooter for under $1000 and see how it goes. Ya wont lose if you want to send it down the road. I suggest a 1 frame 30" 12 gauge. Good luck with your endeavor.

I ended up buying a W.C. Scott hammer gun made in 188five. Sent the money off, but have not received the gun yet. I hope everything turns out okay. I'm a bit nervous. But the gun looks, from the pictures, like a nice gun. C hammers, damascus barrels, of course. I have never shot a hammer gun, but I like thinking about how I will.

[Lloyd McKissick]

Mr. Hanson: has the seller provided you with a tracking number for your for shipment or a least a confirmation that the gun is in transit?

[Dean Romig]

Steve McCarty - you’re going to really enjoy that gun!





.

[Lloyd McKissick]

Hammerguns are arguably the most artistic version of a fine double. The British really evolved the form on these types of guns and their examples can be pretty spectacular (go look on Vintage Doubles sometime, Kirby's got some great examples there). Domestic hammers were not commonly produced to that level here, but we came close with several makers (Parker seems to be the most prominent, followed by Smith). When my larder is full-enough and the weather supports it, I put away my "modern" weapons and drag my hammer guns afield to add another component of interest to the hunt.

Everything has to be nearly perfect to succeed (the aforementioned weather, field conditions, & you), but when it works it is very satisfying...

http://i.imgur.com/foYi5heh.jpg (https://imgur.com/foYi5he)

This very early Lang started life as a pinfire.

Hammerguns can also be alot of fun on a sporting clays range. They do need to be fairly substantial (to handle the shot volume and to sop-up all of that recoil) but when a proper version is found, they will really stand out amongst the guns of your fellow shooters.

http://i.imgur.com/z3MYun1h.jpg (https://imgur.com/z3MYun1)

This big & heavy Ithaca NIG has a 32-inch tubeset that weighs 5-lbs all by itself.

http://i.imgur.com/iXhzv6zh.jpg (https://imgur.com/iXhzv6z)

This gun closely mimics the weight and dimensions of my far-more conventional stackbarrel target gun.

[Steve McCarty]

I love those Sherman Bell articles in DGJ that detail his testing of damascus barrels. He did his best to blow them up. He honed an L.C. Smith barrel to "paper thin" and loaded it with proof shells and it still would not let go. I shoot several damascus barreled guns and like them. BTW: I was reading my copy of "Parker Guns" today. I read a story saying that Americans in the 19th Century liked heavy guns overloaded when compared to English guns, saying that the Brits preferred light loads and light guns. My antique American double guns are HEAVY.

[Lloyd McKissick]

Stepmac: There's a place for a wide range of weights in my battery of hammer guns.

Upland bird guns need to be light enough to carry all day and still be able to respond to a flush quickly. My Lang sidelever hammer is 6 1/4lbs and that's where it mostly gets used. This recent #1 framed Parker hammer should serve well on prairie birds at 7 1/4lbs, and my almost 9lb Ithaca NIG is nearly perfect for sporting clays.

American guns usually had to do it all for their mostly 1-gun owners (upland, waterfowl, & target) and "heavy" was the default position for so many of those makers.

[Harry Collins]

when I lived in Italy 53 years ago, I purchased a hammered 20 gauge Bernadelli Brescia. I shot several flats of shells a week at skeet. I wanted to improve my field hunting. At every station that presented doubles I would cock the right barrel coming to my shoulder and drop the gun a bit to cock the left barrel for the second shot. I never broke 100, but I got pretty handy with the little gun. I took my first double ever on Pheasant in the mountains of Italy. It's one hell of a lot of fun. You can't go wrong.

[Steve McCarty]

I just received my new very old Hammer Gun. It is a W.C. Scott made in 18eighty-five (My five key is broken). Wood is very nice. The damascus is a little hard to make out, but not too bad. "C" hammers that rebound. Mint bores a little ding on the outside of one barrel 8inches from the bore. Think I'll ignore it. 28 inch barrels, not too heavy. Not too much fine engraving, but what is there is nice. Gun mounts well, should be fun to shoot and easy to carry. Im 80 for goodness sakes! It's F&F. I'm going to try it at trap for grins.

[Steve McCarty]

when I lived in Italy 53 years ago, I purchased a hammered 20 gauge Bernadelli Brescia. I shot several flats of shells a week at skeet. I wanted to improve my field hunting. At every station that presented doubles I would cock the right barrel coming to my shoulder and drop the gun a bit to cock the left barrel for the second shot. I never broke 100, but I got pretty handy with the little gun. I took my first double ever on Pheasant in the mountains of Italy. It's one hell of a lot of fun. You can't go wrong.

I lived in London in 19fifty seven. I was 13. It was wonderful. I learned to ride the buses and the underground and the world of London was my oyster. Wonderful museums. Great movie theatres. Blitz damage all over the place. Funny money. Today the Blitz damage is fixed and the money is different and I'm 80! Different.

[Lloyd McKissick]

Shoot it in good health Sir.

[Steve McCarty]

Shoot it in good health Sir.

I wish I could shoot/hunt with some of you guys. I am an experienced hunter/shooter. I was a drill sergeant for years and then a commander of drill sergeants. I hunted for a generation in western Kansas. I've been to Africa, but only shot a camera. It was interesting, however. South Africa was a mess. Not safe folks. Cape Buffalo scared my poor wife to death! It was close to her, we are talking five feet. Those critters STINK.