Question for the 10ga. Folks

[Matt Valinsky]

I havea Parker 10ga Grade 1 hammer gun That I've had around 10 years and think it's about time I started shooting it.

I have RST hulls and Federal Black Cloud hulls. The RST hulls look like the Black cloud hulls, same brown color and head stamp, no stars. So the question, are the RST hulls Federals?

Back when I bought the gun a Mec reloader and the hulls came with the deal so thinking about reloading for it I bought a bag of Remington SP 10 wads and a 1 pounder of Red Dot. At the time I think I recall the wads and powder where part of a recipe along with Federal hulls, but as long as it'sbeen I might be wrong. Any thoughts in that direction? I will be checking Pete's spread sheet also. But in any event, thanks for any info you might pass along.

[Pete Lester]

I havea Parker 10ga Grade 1 hammer gun That I've had around 10 years and think it's about time I started shooting it.

I have RST hulls and Federal Black Cloud hulls. The RST hulls look like the Black cloud hulls, same brown color and head stamp, no stars. So the question, are the RST hulls Federals?

Back when I bought the gun a Mec reloader and the hulls came with the deal so thinking about reloading for it I bought a bag of Remington SP 10 wads and a 1 pounder of Red Dot. At the time I think I recall the wads and powder where part of a recipe along with Federal hulls, but as long as it'sbeen I might be wrong. Any thoughts in that direction? I will be checking Pete's spread sheet also. But in any event, thanks for any info you might pass along.

The early RST 2 7/8" hulls I encountered were brown Federal hulls with RST markings. Later RST started using red Cheddite hulls with RST markings. The Federal's were better IMO.

19gr of Red Dot with either hull and 1 1/8 oz will be a nice target and small game load and "period correct". With the SP-10 wad you will need a 1/2" of or 1/2"+ spacer to get a proper crimp. Both 16ga and 20ga filler wads will work. Fiber wads are more forgiving of stack height than hard wads but they produce some confetti when shot. Annoying to some but others smile, depends on which way the wind is blowing.

Both Red Dot and SP10 wads are currently unobtanium.

[Daniel Carter]

BPI sold a waxed 16 ga. wad that eliminated the confetti. Kind of liked the celebration in every shot when i was not down wind.

[keavin nelson]

I use 16ga card wads for the needed stack height.

[Pete Lester]

Just after I said SP10 wads were not available along comes this Ebay auction. For the bargain price of $80 plus $7 shipping per bag AND there are five bags. Get 'em while they're hot! :rotf:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/205563443308?mkevt=1&mkpid=0&emsid=e11021.m164380.l178263&mkcid=7&ch=osgood&euid=72e58f9ff5f647b1b427c86c2bf5c307&bu=43187412023&ut=RU&osub=-1%7E1&crd=20250617075612&segname=11021&recoId=205563443308&recoPos=1

[Steven Groh]

1/2" Waxed like these?
https://www.ballisticproducts.com/basket.asp

[Daniel Carter]

1/2" Waxed like these?
https://www.ballisticproducts.com/basket.asp

Your reference did not show. BPI #HCW 16. Mine bought 5 years ago so no current knowledge

[Steven Groh]

1/2 Waxed Hard Card Wad (200/bag)
16ga

Item: HCW 16 GA
Price: $7.99

[Matt Valinsky]

The early RST 2 7/8" hulls I encountered were brown Federal hulls with RST markings. Later RST started using red Cheddite hulls with RST markings. The Federal's were better IMO.

19gr of Red Dot with either hull and 1 1/8 oz will be a nice target and small game load and "period correct". With the SP-10 wad you will need a 1/2" of or 1/2"+ spacer to get a proper crimp. Both 16ga and 20ga filler wads will work. Fiber wads are more forgiving of stack height than hard wads but they produce some confetti when shot. Annoying to some but others smile, depends on which way the wind is blowing.

Both Red Dot and SP10 wads are currently unobtanium.

Thank you!

[CraigThompson]

Just after I said SP10 wads were not available along comes this Ebay auction. For the bargain price of $80 plus $7 shipping per bag AND there are five bags. Get 'em while they're hot! :rotf:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/205563443308?mkevt=1&mkpid=0&emsid=e11021.m164380.l178263&mkcid=7&ch=osgood&euid=72e58f9ff5f647b1b427c86c2bf5c307&bu=43187412023&ut=RU&osub=-1%7E1&crd=20250617075612&segname=11021&recoId=205563443308&recoPos=1

I’m glad I’ve started curtailing my shooting and have a decent amount of SP-10’s on hand or I’m afraid I’d make them an offer on all five bags .

[Frank Srebro]

Anyone wanting to get into 10 ga reloading might look at my advert to sell an as new MEC press complete with 2-7/8" short kit AND 500+ SP-10 wads in the Members Forums.

[Keith Doty]

REALLY glad I found the guy in Canada with a ton of SP-10s a while back. I bought a bunch and I believe Craig did as well. BP has their BP1044s in stock at $25 for 250. I'd be inclined to try'em before Ebaying at $75/250. I use BP wads for nearly every load I shoot in 12,16, and 20. Never any issues, work well for me.

[Mike Koneski]

The BP1044 work well too.

[Keith Doty]

Haven't tried the "new" ones, I shot some of the 10ga. wads they had a while back before they disappeared and they were just fine. If/when I run out of SP-10 you can bet I'll be getting some of the BP 1044 before I pay crazy money for the old Remington wads.

[Steven Groh]

OK, I finally have my supply of primed Cheddite hulls and BP wads.
What is the best powder CURRENTLY AVAILABLE to load 1 1/8 ounce target loads in my old 10s?
I have Perfect Pattern, which seems too fast, and Winchester Super Handicap, which seems too slow burning.
I also have some International.
Any suggestions?
Most of the powders in the spreadsheet seem “unobtanium.”

[Pete Lester]

OK, I finally have my supply of primed Cheddite hulls and BP wads.
What is the best powder CURRENTLY AVAILABLE to load 1 1/8 ounce target loads in my old 10s?
I have Perfect Pattern, which seems too fast, and Winchester Super Handicap, which seems too slow burning.
I also have some International.
Any suggestions?
Most of the powders in the spreadsheet seem “unobtanium.”

Hodgdon International is very close to Alliant Green Dot. I would not be afraid to try 22 grains of International with 1 1/8 ounce lead. It would be an untested load if you decide to try it but I believe the risk of something bad happening in a sound gun is negligible.

[Jeff Sweeter]

Here is a load I had tested at Precision if it helps you out.

[Steven Groh]

Wow!
That is as close to what I am looking for as anything else. The only difference is the wad.
And that the pressures we are dealing with, that should be absolutely no problem, I would think.
Tell me, how do they shoot, and what do you shoot them in?
Presumably, it’s in guns approaching 9 pounds, so the felt recoil should be negligible.
Thanks a million!

[Jeff Sweeter]

I've got a few different 10s all with Damascus barrels I shoot them in.Seems like a mild load.I haven't patterned them but shot skeet with them and worked good.The bp1044 wads will likely have a little more pressure as the crush section is somewhat stiffer than the sp10 wad.The old sp10 wads had a thinner built crush section than the newer ones do and as a result created a little more pressure also.Tom Armbrust will verify this with tests he has done for me.If you were to substitute a ww209 primer for the cheddite primer,pressure and velocity would both likely be a little lower as the ww primer is a little milder.Ive got 1 1/4 oz loads I've had tested using long shot with similar velocity but lower pressures yet.I think I've posted some on here in the past.Jeff

[Steven Groh]

It seems like pressure is hardly an issue in that load. In fact, a little more pressure might make it burn cleaner. Is that possible?

[Matt Valinsky]

I've got a few different 10s all with Damascus barrels I shoot them in.Seems like a mild load.I haven't patterned them but shot skeet with them and worked good.The bp1044 wads will likely have a little more pressure as the crush section is somewhat stiffer than the sp10 wad.The old sp10 wads had a thinner built crush section than the newer ones do and as a result created a little more pressure also.Tom Armbrust will verify this with tests he has done for me.If you were to substitute a ww209 primer for the cheddite primer,pressure and velocity would both likely be a little lower as the ww primer is a little milder.Ive got 1 1/4 oz loads I've had tested using long shot with similar velocity but lower pressures yet.I think I've posted some on here in the past.Jeff

Could you please repost the Long shot recipe? Thanks

[Jeff Sweeter]

Here's the test I had done for 1 1/4oz. lead with longshot powder and the new bp 1044 wad.Longshot is a fine powder and the 1044 wad doesn't fit very tight in the hull so a gas seal was used to prevent powder migration.

[Matt Valinsky]

Thank you sir.

[Steven Groh]

Here is a load I had tested at Precision if it helps you out.

Well, I have tried this one out with a variety of 16 gauge wad spacer combinations, and I still don't get very good crimps. (These are my first ten attempts from left to right).

1 1/8 ounce of 7 1/2s doesn't come close to filling the shot cup, and it seems to take closer to 5/8" or even 3/4" of spacing to work.

I have tried putting the fiber cushion in the bottom and the hard spacer on top, and I even tried putting some fiber spacer under the wad.

Does anyone have any tricks to share?

135377

[Jeff Sweeter]

Are you using the x10x gas seal beneath the wad? They are approximately 1/8" thick? It looks like maybe too deep pre crimp by the marks in between the folds and with crimper set a bit too deep will cause the folds to swirl,grabbing too much of the hull to fold in.If on a Mec loader,raise the cam up a little.And with not enough filler this can easily happen.I have also used a 10 gauge hard card beneath the wad instead of the gas seal.It takes up about the same space and does the same job but this test was done with gas seal.One way or another you need a little more filler and adjust your crimper a little higher,or lighter.If you can't get it figured out ill dig out some components tomorrow and see exactly what is needed. The shells I loaded crimped nice.I don't remember if I loaded them on a Mec,or a PW. They both load nice shells.Jeff.

[Dean Romig]

Looks like you won't even be able to stuff #'s 2 & 3 into the chambers but I'l bet the others will go BANG!!





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[Steven Groh]

135378

135379

They are definitely getting better.
This is number 14.

[Steven Groh]

It sure seems like 1 1/4 would make a tidier reload.
Boy would that be hell on doves!

[CraigThompson]

It sure seems like 1 1/4 would make a tidier reload.
Boy would that be hell on doves!

Those are new unfired hulls correct ? The crimp for me atleast isn’t the best with unfired hulls but generally it gets better the next few loadings . To make the crimp more flat in the center you can do a couple things , the first is add more displacement items until you get it up more . The second thing is an overshot card under the crimp .

[Pete Lester]

Well, I have tried this one out with a variety of 16 gauge wad spacer combinations, and I still don't get very good crimps. (These are my first ten attempts from left to right).

1 1/8 ounce of 7 1/2s doesn't come close to filling the shot cup, and it seems to take closer to 5/8" or even 3/4" of spacing to work.

I have tried putting the fiber cushion in the bottom and the hard spacer on top, and I even tried putting some fiber spacer under the wad.

Does anyone have any tricks to share?

135377

Your goal should be to get your loads to look like the sixth shell from the left.

You need to be sure to have as much filler in the shot cup behind the shot as needed to get the shot column to about 1/4 of an inch below the mouth of the case for a fold crimp. Avoid putting anything over the shot except a very thin over shot card and if you want the best patterns don't put anything over the shot as it will disrupt the pattern even to the point of making a spreader load.

Brand new Cheddite hulls do not crimp as nice as other hulls, especially Federal. The more they are fired the better they get.

If your crimp is normal but has a hole in the center or is swirled and you are loading with a MEC single stage loader you need to adjust the cam.

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/bpi/articleindex/articles/mecadjust/mecadj.htm

[Jeff Sweeter]

Looks like I got the loads mixed up that I posted.There is no extra gas seal used in the 1 1/8 oz load which would change the stack height.As other posters have suggested you just need a bit more filler and adjustment to your loader.If using the bp1044 wad in place of the sp10 there may be a little difference in filler needed.I do also use a brass star pre crimper which may help with new hulls.They have sharper corners than the original mec.Looks like you are winning by the last photo.Sorry for any confusion.Jeff

[Pete Lester]

I do also use a brass star pre crimper which may help with new hulls.They have sharper corners than the original mec.Looks like you are winning by the last photo.Sorry for any confusion.Jeff

I put an 1/8" washer between the MEC star crimper and the frame of my VersaMec to get a deeper and more defined fold to the crimp.

[Steven Groh]

Looks like I got the loads mixed up that I posted.There is no extra gas seal used in the 1 1/8 oz load which would change the stack height.As other posters have suggested you just need a bit more filler and adjustment to your loader.If using the bp1044 wad in place of the sp10 there may be a little difference in filler needed.I do also use a brass star pre crimper which may help with new hulls.They have sharper corners than the original mec.Looks like you are winning by the last photo.Sorry for any confusion.Jeff

I have one on order

[Steven Groh]

Is there a concern about so much shot being well in front of the wad cup?
It seems like it could lead to more deformed shot and less uniform patterns.
What is reality?

[CraigThompson]

Is there a concern about so much shot being well in front of the wad cup?
It seems like it could lead to more deformed shot and less uniform patterns.
What is reality?

I’ve never noticed a problem in the 10 or 8 gauge guns filling in the shot cup a good bit with spacers . They break targets at a pretty decent poke and take down feathered targets at a pretty good distance .

[Pete Lester]

Is there a concern about so much shot being well in front of the wad cup?
It seems like it could lead to more deformed shot and less uniform patterns.
What is reality?

This is my reality. 30" circle at 40 yards. 1905 Remington 1894 10ga, 30" barrels with .045 and .046 choke shooting Fed hull 2 7/8", Win 209 primer, 19.3 gr Red Dot, SP10 wad, 1/2"+ fiber filler wad in shot cup, 1 1/8 oz Lawrence magnum #6, fold crimp. Patterns are 92/93%

I have a Lefever G 10 that shoots about the same, My Parker NH and H&R D grade shoot mid to high 80% at 40 yards with same load.

[Dean Romig]

Those are pretty tight patterns Pete. What are the choke constrictions on the Parker and the H&R and how long are the choke tapers on all of them?
Parker Bros. seemed to believe a long choke taper made a difference.





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[Pete Lester]

That Remington has a six inch taper, the stock fit, the weight 8 3/4 lbs, the 30" barrels with those chokes has made it my favorite salt water fowler.

My 10 lb 5 ounce NH with 32" barrels has .024 and .030 constriction with about a 4.5" taper. The H&R also 10 lb 32" and the most massive of barrel walls has .036 and .040 constriction but I don't know the taper length. Both are good guns if you are sitting down with them across your lap until needed and I find it hard to stop my swing once I get them moving lol.

My 30" Lefever G 10 is 9.5 lbs with very thick barrel walls has .042 constriction in both barrels, unknown to me taper and also shoots the same load at 92/93%.

I also have a Lefever F grade 10 with 30" tubes, 8 1/4 lbs with .003 and .018 and in spite of the constriction it delivered patterns of 53 and 85% with 19 gr Red Dot 1 1/8 #6. A bit of a head scratcher but it's a nice 10 to carry.

A lot of shot above the shot cup doesn't seem to detract from the patterns in my experience.

[Steven Groh]

Finally getting some acceptable crimps.

135414
135415
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[CraigThompson]

A friend suggested I get one of these and I did . It’s a heck of a lot easier getting the crimp in the right place on fired hulls . https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Super-Crown-Crimper-Large-Bore-6-Point/productinfo/0740006/