Brittany Split

[Alfred Houde]

In the May issue of Versatile Hunting Dog, NAVHDA announced the recognition of the Epagneul Breton (Brittany Spaniel) as a separate breed from the American Brittany.

I have mixed feelings about this and was curious as to what other Brittany owners here think?

My personal feeling was that the article was rather biased towards the EB, and carried some falsehoods. I think a Brittany is a Brittany. My eight-month old pup is registered as I guess an American Brittany, but I can trace her pedigree all the way back to French imports. I get that some crossed them out to produce larger dogs to compete in trials, but the French also crossed-out to other black dogs to salvage the Brittany there after WWII.

Are they just a different strain, or really separate, distinct breeds? You could make the same argument about the various strains of English Setter, but they are all still English Setters, no?

Money, egos, and show breeders have ruined many good gun dog breeds.

[Dean Romig]

I agree with you Alfred but there is a formula used to determine a taxonomic distinction.





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[Angel Cruz]

The AKA removed the Spaniel part because the Brittany was more than just a spaniel. My boy Nash could point, flush and retrieve to hand, an all-around hunting dog. Like the Brittany needs a new model. Really.
It sounds to me like breeders got together and came up with another dog to sell. Too bad they picked the Brittany. Just my two cents..

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Sounds to me like the same people who say" I don't have English Setters, l have Llewellyn s"

[Rick Roemer]

I like Brittanys- never owned one but have had cousins with them and they’ve always been good dogs. I always recommend Brittanys as a new person‘s first bird dog. They just work. I’ve actually never seen a bad one. But I prefer other breeds personally.

[Alfred Houde]

Here is the article/notification from NAVHDA. I should have included it in my original post.

I'm not sure what the author is referring to as far as registration. The AKC, CKC, UKC, and NAVHDA all recognize the Brittany as Brittany, not "American Brittany." My pup is registered with AKC, FDSB (UKC), and NAVHDA. Each says "Brittany."

I don't know what he is referring to when he claims that other registries consider them "mixed breeds." What other registries are there? I personally feel that the ending of the article was the true mission/motive. NAVHDA wants that $65 annual membership fee and registration fees from those who own the EB and were hesitant to join or participate.

Annie is only my second Brittany, and I don't claim to be an expert, but I do know the history of the breed and I don't see this as a positive.

[Scott Janowski]

As far as I know, EB’s have always been a separate breed to UKC where NAVHDA originates. EB‘s indeed are a completely different breed. If you look at them, they are built totally different than an American Brittany. They are smaller, more cobby and have other distinct features. Their heads are totally different, the stop on their head is quite angular in comparison to American Brittany’s. Their ear set is different. Read the UKC standard and you will understand the differences. EB’s ans AB’s should not be mixed.

Sue Janowski

[Andrew Sacco]

Someone overthinketh

[Tom Jay]

Every American and French Brittany I've known is a pointing dog. What do Epagneul Breton (Brittany Spaniel) do, point or flush?

[Alfred Houde]

Point

[Paul Ehlers]

As far as I know, EB’s have always been a separate breed to UKC where NAVHDA originates. EB‘s indeed are a completely different breed. If you look at them, they are built totally different than an American Brittany. They are smaller, more cobby and have other distinct features. Their heads are totally different, the stop on their head is quite angular in comparison to American Brittany’s. Their ear set is different. Read the UKC standard and you will understand the differences. EB’s ans AB’s should not be mixed.

Sue Janowski

Thank you!

Big picture wise you are correct with one correction I'll add. The UKC didn't recognize the EB as a separate breed until the national breed club for the EB which at the time was known as the French Brittany Gun Dog Assocation petitioned the UKC to recognize the EB as a separate breed in the late 90's/ early 2000's. I was the national breed club secretary at the time and played my small part in building the case for the differences between the EB & what is commonly known as the American Brittany which is the breed recognized by the AKC & represented by the American Brittany Club.

Some fundamental differences between the two breeds not mentioned, is the ABC/AKC wouldn't recognize the color black in the breed which has always been in the foundational breed standard of the FCI. Another big change that happened to the American Brittany due to the ABC being the parent breed club for the Brittany is that the Breton has always been a close working foot hunters breed and wasn't being able to compete in the AKC's horse ridden field trials designed for the big-running far-ranging pointers & setters of the traditional plantation type trials. Because of this the American Brittany breeders started breeding for taller, longer and leggier dogs in an attempt for having a bigger-running farther-ranging dog which resulted in a breed which no longer fit the FCI breed confirmation standard. (This basically is what created a new breed in America) we Americans changed a breed to fit our needs!

In addition to this. The American breeders also started breeding for specific Trates within the breed for the show circuit and basically bred the natural hunt instincts out of the show breed side of the equation, whereas the FCI has always held the natural hunting abilities as being an extremely important part of the breed standard no matter if in the field or show ring.

In summary. There are distinct differences between the two breeds and I'm very happy to see that NAVHDA as finally recognized this. I'm not knocking the American Brittany in any way; I'm just attempting to explain some of the differences between the two breeds.

[Alfred Houde]

Some really good input and explanations provided here. A few weeks back I spent some bucks and submitted a DNA sample on my pup to Embark. The results came back as 100% Brittany. I sort of expected that, but the good news is no evidence of crossbreeding with setters or pointers for those horse-back field trials.

I'm still not totally sold on separate breed vs strain, but I see both sides of that argument. Hopefully the show people don't jump on the EB and focus on the show ring aspect.

The late Logan Bennett advised in his book "Training Grouse and Woodcock Dogs" not to send your pup to a trainer who hunts pheasant or quail if your goal is to hunt ruffed grouse and woodcock.

Another great piece of advice I learned over the years is find a breeder who hunts what you hunt.

I followed that advice with this little Brittany pup of mine and so far, so good. Even if she is the proverbial "American Cousin."

[joe tilford]

I have owned, trained, and hunted with both American and French Brittanys. They are similar in many ways. However, they are different enough to justify being different breeds, in my opinion.

What has been said earlier about physical differences is entirely true -- size, ear set, color standards, cobbyness, etc. are all different in the American versus French. That being said, I love both breeds and Brittanys are my favorite pointing dog.

[John Dallas]

Years ago I was heavily involved with Field Bred Springers. The AKC did not recognize a difference between the show dogs and the field dogs, but they were entirely different. A show dog can't smell a pork chop tied around his neck, and a field bred springer wouldn't make 5 steps on the platform before being thrown out. When I got involved with Labs, I lost all interest in the Springers. Don't know if the AKC has split up the two Springer types by now

[Alfred Houde]

The AKC is simply a registry. They don't care if a dog is field or show bred.