INVINCIBLES

[George Lander]

Does anyone here know the location of the surviving Parker Invincibles? Several years ago I heard of a 16 gauge located here in South Carolina.

Just Wanted To Know.......George

[Ed Blake]

I think they are all at the NRA Museum in Fairfax, VA.

[Bruce Day]

There are no non surviving Invincibles. All three are accounted for, are owned by the Robert Peterson Estate and loaned for display at the NRA Museum. We saw them during the PGCA Annual Meeting several years ago ( 5 years ago?) with a special tour of the museum arranged by PGCA member and then NRA VP Craig Sandler.

[Dean Romig]

Please correct me if I'm wrong - I thought I had read of a time when Tony Galazan owned at least two of them. Does anyone have information on whether this is true and if so, when did Tony own them.

[Robin Lewis]

Here is a picture of the three of them together.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I'd heard that Peterson had Tony do the bidding for him when they came up for sale.

DLH

[James T. Kucaba]

I'd heard that Peterson had Tony do the bidding for him when they came up for sale.

DLH

Destry ... I think you're correct, all three Invincibles were in display at the Las Vegas show last January and that's the story I heard from one of the NRA guys at the display.

Jim Kucaba ... AriZOOna Cactus Patch ... Email: JimKucaba@aol.com

[George Lander]

What are the gauges of the three and are three all that were ever made? I heard that one was put on display a long time ago in a hardware store and disappeared while in transit to the next display location.

Just Curious........George

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Two 12, one 16, and yes.

[George Lander]

Has anyone ever heard of the missing one or am I confused?

George

[Destry L. Hoffard]

What missing one? All three are in the NRA Museum. There are two 12 gauge and one 16 gauge there in the museum on display.

That hardware story sounds a lot like another one I heard about Bo Whoop.

[Bill Murphy]

George, I haven't heard that story and none are thought to be missing. A good start on a bibliography would be The Parker Story. I think there is an even more complete story in a not so old Parker Pages authored or coauthored by Dietrich Apel who owned #230,329.

[George Lander]

Bill: I'm not sure where I read or heard the story. It could have been another special gun. Also there was a story that I read about one that was found in a house, I believe in Birmingham, Alabama, that was purchased by a young doctor. Was that one of the three?

Best Regards, George

[Don Kaas]

That was the A.C. Middleton gun, the 16 found in Middleton's house in New Jersey by the new owner of the house. Middleton was a senior executive with the Victor Talking Machine Co. and a protegee of Eldridge Johnson. All of this information has been published ad nauseum in DGJ as well as TPS. If I recall this how all the BS about the found "Bo Whoop" started. Now, another Invincible...sheeeezz...

[Bruce Day]

Invincible, Inbelievable and Inplausible.

[Don Kaas]

Sounds like 3 WWI British battle cruisers...and their sister ship, H.M.S. Incomprehensible...

[Bruce Day]

All of which were sunk by mines laid by the Graft Spree.

[Robert Delk]

The gun that was supposedly stolen was #200,000. They must have gotten it back it seems if,indeed, it was stolen.

[Bill Murphy]

And where did you read that story? We had a pretty good bibliography at one time and we would like to add that tidbit to it.

[Robert Delk]

I think it was in an old Guns&Ammo article or maybe in a story about the Invincibles in another magazine. The story predates "TPS" that's for sure.The gun was supposedly on display at Kennedys Sporting Goods store which was in Minnesota somewhere or maybe it was Milwaukee, Wisconsin. The gun was on display and the story had it that it disappeared when it was sent on to somewhere else.This was some years ago but I am certain of it as far as I have given details as I have always been interested in Parker lore and read everything on it.I might have read it in "Forest & Stream" also as at one time I owned a complete set of them.

[Bruce Day]

Larry Baer, Vol. II, p.47.

Its a story that was killed long ago but keeps rising from the grave in true B movie fashion.

[Dean Romig]

George, there were only ever three made and they are all secure and accounted for.

[Robert Delk]

Bingo! Bruce is right it is in Baer,but I also think that "Forest & Stream" might have first carried the "purloined" Invincible story first at the time it happened.Might be "Field & Stream" now that I think about it. I still have some bound copies of both circa 1911 to early 1930's when Field and Stream took over from Forest and Stream.

[Bill Murphy]

I sure would like to hear an early account of the "lost Invincible". Of course, Peter Johnson described the gun as "lost" when it actually was safe and sound about ten miles from where I am right now. It remained "lost" for a couple of decades after the Johnson book was published when it was still safe and sound in the hands of a couple of trapshooter/Parker collector types. It was finally outed by Tony Galazan.

[Dean Romig]

Robert, if you or anyone else can lay their hands on that issue of Forest & Stream (or whatever publication it appeared in) and can scan the article and post it here much like Drew has done with the Sporting Life archives it would be a great read for us all.

[Robert Delk]

I will try and find the article but I have to dig through 3 years worth of magazines (1929-1931).Forest & Stream,especially, had a lot of "chat" in some of their columns.I read through a lot of stuff just to find out some interesting bits.I read about the Custer Massacre the week it happened in 'Forest & Stream".I bought them through a broker in Queens in 1985 for a little over $700,along with some bound Field and Stream, from the Cincinnati Public Library.Sold most of them the next year.The ad for their sale came out in the "Shotgun News" the same day my youngest son died.You can imagine that I did not act rationally during that time and I have no idea of where most of them ended up.I haven't looked at what I have left the same way since.

[Gill Frye]

So sorry about your son....I can't even begin to fathom your pain...keep the faith.
The stories of the lost Invinceable really keep the mystique going, you just never know whats up there in the attic.

[Scott Groff]

I'm sure someone with great skill will make up a "Lost" Invicible someday. and no doubt a fool will get suckered into buying it.

Not that anything like that has ever been done mind you.

[George Lander]

More can be read about it in Ed Muderlak's Book "Old Reliable" Pages 132-134 wherein he states "Larry Baer's story of the mysterious disappearance of "PP Super Fine" SN 200,000
is in itself a mystery now that the gun is present and accounted for". In Larry Baer's Volume II Pp. 47 Copyright 1976 it, apparently, was still among the missing. BTW if anyone has an extra Volume I of Larry's 1976 edition I would love to purchase it.

Also, BTW, Since the Bo Whoop controversy was resurrected by someone here, if anyone still wants a copy of the Callahan letter on the gun I would be more than happy to send them a copy. Just give me your mailing address.

Best Regards, George

[Bruce Day]

It wasn't lost, Larry Baer just didn't know where it was. Many collectors are private and don't want the world to know what they have, so they keep quiet and their holdings are known only to a few close friends. All the more so when there is some tale, true or not, of the gun being stolen at some time. The last thing a person who owns an expensive gun(and may have paid a lot for it) wants is for the heirs of the owner who reported it stolen to come calling with a claim on the gun. That is presently happening with stolen art work from WWII.

Its like the President Harrison AH grade. While it was lost to the public, his great grandson was shooting quail with it just a few miles from here.

But Scott is correct. Somebody may miraculously come up with an Invincible whose SN is in the missing records. Probably be a small bore and in extremely high condition, the long lost and fabled fourth Invincible finally found.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

These guns are found in some strange places, The Pratt A1 was found in an upstairs closet by his daughter after his death. complete with case and extra set of barells. Since his daughter did not know anything about guns she asked the family attorney what if anything it was worth, wrong! He did some checking with some people (can not say who) and promptly, and I am sure grudgingly gave her a check for 15,000 I still have a copy of that check. This was in the seventies. So there are guns out, just waiting to be found. Just thought I would share this tidbit Gary

[Bill Murphy]

My gosh, for the fourth time this year, I agree with Bruce Day. Yup, the #200,000 was never really missing as suggested in Johnson, the earlier "missing" thing about this gun is still a mystery, although a minor one. Of all people, George Lander shouldn't refer to the Bo Whoop thing as a "controversy" since he is the person who claims to know where it is and who owns it. If there is a controversy, he started it. Who is he referring to when he says "someone here"?? He is the someone here, or there. OK, George, are you bringing Bo Whoop to the Vintagers this year? I missed it the last time you brought it.

[Gill Frye]

Yeah, a couple of years ago I was talking to a customer and shotguns came up, turned out he had a nice VH 28 ga., three years later and it was mine. One thing for sure is it never hurts to be nice to people.

[James Brown]

Mr. Lander, check your PM.
James

[Channing Will]

Another picture of the lot (from the serialization book via google book search). Why dont I ever find guns like these in closets??

[Fred Preston]

I'm surprised this hasn't shown up on this thread yet. 5 or 6 years ago I was visiting the DelGrego shop in Ilion for the first time and Larry was putting this neophite in awe by showing me a number of engraving tracings and original Parker parts and pieces. Among the parts and pieces was a frame forging which may or may not have been intended for Invincible IV. The forging had no "counter-sink" for the hinge pin and some other unusual features not found on a standard Parker frame forging. I know there are others here (Bill M. and Kevin M. ?) who have seen or are aware of this item and would know more about it than I would. How about it.

[Dean Romig]

Fred, do you remember if it had the "clips" on the outsides of the breech balls?

[Jim Williams]

Regarding Bruce's post #31 about stolen guns being reclaimed by past owners from current ones, there was a story I read many years ago written by a man who had just such a thing happen. The memory is fuzzy, but I believe he bought an A grade gun at a very low price. He had a nagging feeling it was suspect, but bought it anyway. He didn't go to any great lengths to keep his gun private. Eventually, FBI agents showed up at his door one day asking to see the gun. They had concrete proof that the gun was indeed stolen. I think it had belonged to a Colonel? who was in the process of moving. The entire moving van got stolen along with all of his possessions packed within, including the AH(E?). The current owner had to surrender it without compensation. I don't recall if he took action against the seller. Does anyone remember this, and if I remembered details wrong please correct them.

Jim

[Robert Delk]

The gun was an A1 Special and it belonged to a general grade officer who had it stolen. Gun was advertised as a C grade and the guy got it for 1000 or 1200. When he wrote Remington trying to get some history they alerted the FBI.Seems the general was pretty savvy and told Remington to be on the look out if someone inquired about the gun.

[Bruce Day]

At least one of these people who post here asking how much a gun is worth stole the gun and was seeking to sell it in a hurry. One of our Georgia members found that out and had to return the Parker. At least he was able to get his money back but the law does not require that. I'm suspicious of these people who have a nice Parker and say they know nothing about it and want to know how much it is worth. I know we have members privately emailing them and seeking to buy these guns and make a deal in the parking lot. Caveat emptor.

[Bill Murphy]

Concerning the situation of the ATF requiring the seller compensate the buyer, a poster here had the opposite experience. The ATF requested cooperation from the seller, suggesting that voiding the sale would help in their decision to prosecute or not for selling a stolen gun. Our member was refunded the purchase price quickly. Maybe he will post and give us more details. The gun was not a Parker.

[Fred Preston]

Fred, do you remember if it had the "clips" on the outsides of the breech balls?

Dean, I think it did, but I am not certain.

[Jim Williams]

The gun was an A1 Special and it belonged to a general grade officer who had it stolen. Gun was advertised as a C grade and the guy got it for 1000 or 1200. When he wrote Remington trying to get some history they alerted the FBI.Seems the general was pretty savvy and told Remington to be on the look out if someone inquired about the gun.

Thanks Robert. That sounds right to me. I thought it was 1200.00 but wasn't sure. I definitely remember the part about Remington alerting the FBI now that you mention it. Do you remember where this was published? I can't remember where I read it, but it seems like it was in one of the hunting/shooting mags, or possibly DGJ or similar.

Jim

[Donnie Reels]

Hey guys I was reading your post on Invincibles. I got my book out last night Best Guns by old MM and in the parker chapter he wrote about a Invincible that went missing for some time but was found and was in the hands at that time of a New Your business man. I don't know as much as you guys do about them but I'm trying to learn I hope this helps.

[George Blair]

Jim, have a look at DGJ Vol. 13 Issue 4. It belonged to a general, and it was a A-1 Special. George

[George Lander]

Bill: I never claimed to know where Bo Whoop is or who presently has possession. I do claim to have seen it an handled it. I do have a copy of Mr. Callahan's letter concerning it and BTW I didn't bring Bo Whoop up. Don Kass did.

Just To Set The Record Straight........George

[Francis Morin]

Right spot on the money, Sir!! Advertising valuables of any nature in today's world and the nature of many "opportunists" is a most precarious move. If I were to sell valuable firearms I would consider the % charged by, say James D. Julia or others of that stature to be a "smart insurance policy". I hadn't thought of the stolen gun situation, but that too could be a "horror story" of major league ranking indeed!

[George Lander]

Francis: Thank You. The Volume I of Larry Baer's book that I am looking for has a black alligator texture hardback cover with the Parker Gun logo in an oval @ 7" wide & 3 1/2" high with a silver tone. I have a copy in a brown smooth cover with the logo in gold. It is a second printing, 1977. I believe that the one I am looking for would be the first printing of 1974. Volume II has a copyright date of 1976. I would be willing to pay up to $50.00 for the right one.

[Francis Morin]

You are most welcome George. Please check your PM on this site, I sent you the address of an area (NW Kent Co. MI) fly fishing shop that deals heavily in o.p. sporting books, and then owner, Glenn Blackwood- aka "Captain Carp", also will do a search for you. I sold my spare copy of the 1977 second edition (Larry Beinfield Pub. Co.) to Mark for an even $30- and it was mint. So I would say your $50 "ball park" sounds about as right as the mail. If I find one in that range and in VG plus to Mint, I will see that you get it posthaste.

Years ago I made the mistake of "loaning" my copy of the Peter Johnson Parker book to a former hunting pal. I found a replacement with DJ in VG plus condition at Mr. Black's shop, believe I paid $12.00 for it. Of course, some of the information the late Mr. Johnson had available in 1959 has been surpassed by what we know today, and in part due to the members of the PGCA who have devoted some much time and research to our beloved "Old Reliables"!!

[George Lander]

Francis: You know I did the same thing with Peter Johnson's book and it took me 15 years to get it back, but I did. I wanted that one because Mr. Johnson had personally autographed it. Thank you, I will contact Mr. Black's shop and have him look for a copy. Thank you for looking as well. Please let me know if you find one. There seems to be no end to The Parker Story. New information is constantly cropping up.

Best Regards, George

[John Dallas]

So as to not embarrass anyone, his name is Glenn Blackwood

[James T. Kucaba]

Francis: Thank You. The Volume I of Larry Baer's book that I am looking for has a black alligator texture hardback cover with the Parker Gun logo in an oval @ 7" wide & 3 1/2" high with a silver tone. I have a copy in a brown smooth cover with the logo in gold. It is a second printing, 1977. I believe that the one I am looking for would be the first printing of 1974. Volume II has a copyright date of 1976. I would be willing to pay up to $50.00 for the right one.


George ... You might find what you're looking for under the heading of "Parker" or "Parker Shotguns" on Ebay. ... I monitor those sites every day and copies of Johnson's book, Larry Baer's books, and Ed Muderlak's books, and The Parker Story come up for sale quite frequently.

Jim Kucaba ... AriZOOna Cactus Patch ... Email: JimKucaba@aol.com

[Kevin McCormack]

Someday when all the principal players in the ownership(s) of the Invincibles have left the planet, the intriguing story of these enigmatic guns can and will be told. When I checked on them a few hours ago, they were still safe and sound over at the Museum.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

None of the Parker books take quite this much effort and agony to find. If you'll enter the title and author on:

www.abebooks.com

You'll find a listing for a bunch of small time book dealers that have them on hand.

[Francis Morin]

None of the Parker books take quite this much effort to find and agony to find. If you'll enter the title and author on:

www.abebooks.com

You'll find a listing for a bunch of small time book dealers that have them on hand.I happen to enjoy searching the "Mom and Pop" private networks for hard to find books, shell boxes, ammo for friends. Glenn has almost 1000 o.p. books in his shop at my last visit anyway, and I'd rather see him get a sale than someone that I don't really know. Long before the internet and E-Bay came on the scene that's how I did it, and I am an "old dog" when it comes to learning new tricks I suppose. But thanks for the info on the abe-site, I am sure you are right about current Parker books being available-PS- I went there and you were right, but my visit also confirmed, at least to me, that the $30 price I offered Mark for my "spare copy" and the $50.00 range my SC friend George Lander mentioned in his PM to me, are both "right as rain"!!

[Dave Noreen]

I have three Larry Baer Parker books -- The Parker Gun an Imortal American Classic with gold embossing on a brown cover, copyright 1974, First Edition -- The Parker Gun an Immortal American Classic, Volume II with silver embossing on a black cover, copyright 1976, First Edition -- The Parker Gun with gold lettering on the spine of a battleship grey book, copyright 1980, essentially a combination and reissue of the first two books. None are called Volume I.

[George Lander]

O.K. Dave: That tells me what I wanted to know, I think. I figured there was a Volume I with a black cover & silver logo like Volume II. Perhaps there wasn't and Volume I is as you describe.

Best Regards, George

[Francis Morin]

O.K. Dave: That tells me what I wanted to know, I think. I figured there was a Volume I with a black cover & silver logo like Volume II. Perhaps there wasn't and Volume I is as you describe.

Best Regards, George Hi George. I didn't find any Parker books at all at the "Mom & Pop" book store- did get a Mint Copy with DJ of George B. Evan's "The Upland Shooting Life" and also the 1974 Jimmy Robinson ATA Hall of Fame book- great fotos and details on the older days and gentlemen and lady shooters of another era- also mentions Nash Buckingham and the members of his famous "Gin Squad" Team- Nothing about Captain Harold Money though. Perhaps you might wish to follow Destry's lead and go to Abe's books-I'll keep an eye out until you say otherwise howsomeever!! F.M.

[Austin W Hogan]

Tommy Hypes (Tommy's Books) Radford VA, 540 639 6807 did have remaindered copies of Baer's books.

Best Austin