Model 21, Badge of Honor

[Bobby Cash]

Not afraid nor am I repulsed

https://i.imgur.com/YjgJEH6.png

[Bill Murphy]

That's what it's all about. Learn to live with it, like the rest of us have for ninety some years.

[Alfred Houde]

Isn't this fairly common with the Model 21?

[Andrew Sacco]

Not sure what the statement is about. Like Alfred asked, is this akin to an air cooled 911 leaking oil? The garage stain is just fine with us?

[Bill Murphy]

Yes, the floorplate on a Model 21 becomes tarnished on a regular basis. It is a "Badge of Honor" because it proves originality of finish, because a refinished floorplate somehow does not show this kind of tarnish.

[Alfred Houde]

Yes, the floorplate on a Model 21 becomes tarnished on a regular basis. It is a "Badge of Honor" because it proves originality of finish, because a refinished floorplate somehow does not show this kind of tarnish.

And there are a lot of them out there...

[Bobby Cash]

The floor plate seems to be the weak link in the blueing process(es).
Rust blueing for barrels, Machine (charcoal or carbonum) blueing for frames, trigger plate and trigger guard. Small parts were niter blued.

As Mr. Murphy stated, it's a pretty good indicator that the the metal finishes are original.
IMHO, with only 30,000 of these fine doubles produced, far too many have been ruined by the likes of CSMC
in their attempt to whiz and transform them into "like brand new and virtually unfired" guns. Philistines!

An admirable, original condition, pre war 16 gauge Vent Rib Trap Grade Skeet (G2155B)
whose checkered butt has not been "erased" with a red pad.

https://i.imgur.com/djjoNbz.png

Andy...exactly!

[Bill Murphy]

Kevin McCormack and I put on a "Model 21" display at the Baltimore Show some years back. We won an award for that display. The hit of the display was a Camalier and Buckley cased Model 21 cutaway, number 150, with a prototype snap on forend and earliest single trigger. Kevin restored and refitted the case, which is beautiful. Another hit was a dedicated Model 21 salesman's album with entries back to 1930 up to the 1960 introduction. I remember catering the liquor for Mrs. Camalier's daughter's wedding. They are a prominent Washington D.C. family and owners of a very upscale gift and leather emporium. The Camalier case is about the size of a computer case. I think Kevin may have pictures of the display.

[Kevin McCormack]

Bill really won the award with his great guns and the C&B cased cutaway display, so I sent the trophy home with him. Don't know if I have pics of that year's display, will have to go back though my photo archives. The salesman's album was awesome; samples of stuff I never saw or heard of, all specific to the M21. Thanks, Bill!

[Bobby Cash]

Now Kevin, I for one would really like to see those images if they still exist.

[Bill Murphy]

We can reenact the display for next year's Baltimore Show if there is interest. I haven't sold anything and maybe there will be a few surprises, like my CSMC Model 21 .22 squirrel gun. I think Tony is through building them. I may put out my complete collection of Model 21 catalogs, if there is room. How about my 20" barrel 3" Magnum Duck. No, it doesn't letter. Sorry, no gold inlaid Grand Americans.

[Bill Murphy]

Kevin's displays at Baltimore, over many years, with a little help from me, were part of the history of PGCA. It's too bad that we had to discontinue them. Some of them, "Pigeon Guns", "Parker .410", "Model 21", "Parker 28 Gauge", "Super Fox", included some of the rarest and most interesting shotguns most of us have ever seen. We wish Kevin good luck in finding some of the pictures of many years of displays. Baltimore is this week. See you there.

[Alfred Houde]

On the subject of the Winchester Model 21, can someone tell me what the silver dot or solder mark between the lug and the flats is?

[Dean Romig]

That’s the filled weep hole that was drilled when soldering and blueing the barrels.





.

[Alfred Houde]

I figured it was a weep hole. Is it safe to say that they do not appear to have been reblued? It's tough when you don't have it in front of you.

[Frank Srebro]

The hole was factory plugged with a steel pin, likely a taper fit but I’m not sure of that. The pin was left in the white (unfinished) on all the original 21’s I’ve seen and owned. If the pin head is blued it’s usually a sign the barrels have been redone.

[Alfred Houde]

Thanks. I guess I should have known that, but always good to ask.

Like my old Gunner used to say - "Try and learn something new every day."

[todd allen]

I have an old M 21 built in 1953. I sent it off to be gone through by Lefever, probably about 30 years ago.
It came back to me looking like it just left the factory. I've hunted all over the continent from Mexico to the Artic, and never once worried about originality. Oh, BTW, it has been equipped with Briley choke tubes.
It's a work horse, and has never failed me. Never thought about value, other than it's value as a field gun.
As a side note: I once shot a 30 straight with it on box birds, this from low gun.
Still have it, and will never sell it.