Parker 10 Gauge Hammer Gun Trio:

[Bruce P Bruner]

I have 64 brass shells loaded to go for these 10’s. It will be fun when the weather warms up to give them some exercise, but for now just some oil on a mop and back in the display case.

[CraigThompson]

The top lever appears to be a grade two , what grades are your lifters ?

[CraigThompson]

I assume the top lever is the outhouse leveler ? :whistle:

[Bruce P Bruner]

I assume the top lever is the outhouse leveler ? :whistle:
Yes, the top lever is a Quality E. It was shipped to Montreal, Canada September 20, 1886.
The center one is an $85 Grade, shipped September 28, 1880.
The last one is a Quality D, shipped to H.L. Tibballs of the Washington Territories on April 4, 1886.

[Stan Hoover]

Very nice guns Bruce!

Outhouse leveler, great terminology Craig!:rotf:


I plan to keep the pic of Richard doing just that!

Bruce,
The center $85 Grade, is that possibly a 2 Frame?

[Bruce P Bruner]

“The center $85 Grade, is that possibly a 2 Frame?”
Stan, it’s a 3 frame, 30” short 10.

[Stan Hoover]

I thought breech barrel wall thickness may look to be a little less than the 2 on either side, but it may be just how I’m looking at them.

I was able to acquire a Grade 3 lifter that is a 2 Frame, quite light and handy I must say. But the chambers are 2 1/2”, the only 10 that I have with that chamber length.

[CraigThompson]

I thought breech barrel wall thickness may look to be a little less than the 2 on either side, but it may be just how I’m looking at them.

I was able to acquire a Grade 3 lifter that is a 2 Frame, quite light and handy I must say. But the chambers are 2 1/2”, the only 10 that I have with that chamber length.
Never had a 10 lifter on a 2 frame but at present I have a top lever 10 factory two barrel set that’s a 2 frame . I used the gun with the factory original quite open 26” barrels on the grouse walk at Rock Mountain in 2023 and one day I used it on a quail hunt shooting ounce handloads .

[CraigThompson]

“The center $85 Grade, is that possibly a 2 Frame?”
Stan, it’s a 3 frame, 30” short 10.

Curious do the inside bottoms of those shells have a web like modern day plastic hulls or do they have the protrusion to hold the primer just like the old brass hulls ?

[Bruce P Bruner]

Curious do the inside bottoms of those shells have a web like modern day plastic hulls or do they have the protrusion to hold the primer just like the old brass hulls ?

The antique Winchester brass have the protrusion, allowing for the length of the primer. The reproduction Parker lacks the protrusion, the heads are completely thick.
I may try 19 grains of Red Dot with the traditional nitro wad and lubed vegetable wads with the repro brass.
Difficult to see, the first photo is the antique Winchester hull, second is a repro.

[Bruce P Bruner]

I thought breech barrel wall thickness may look to be a little less than the 2 on either side, but it may be just how I’m looking at them.
Stan, the center short 10 lifter breech walls are not as thick as the Quality D lifter to its left because the D is a 4 frame.

[CraigThompson]

The antique Winchester brass have the protrusion, allowing for the length of the primer. The reproduction Parker lacks the protrusion, the heads are completely thick.
I may try 19 grains of Red Dot with the traditional nitro wad and lubed vegetable wads with the repro brass.
Difficult to see, the first photo is the antique Winchester hull, second is a repro.

Excellent ! I tried a bunch of ways to fit a disc/wafer in the bottom of the old brass hulls so they’d work well with smokeless and pretty much had no luck .

[Bruce P Bruner]

Not a fair comparison, this is a Quality G 12 gauge from 1888. It’s a #1 frame.
I’m not sure if #1 frame 12’s are common but it’s very petite compared to the #4 frame 10.

[Bill Murphy]

Craig, can you explain the "web" and the need for a disc or wafer to make a brass shell work well with smokeless? What kind of brass shells can we use with smokeless? Is there a safety situation?

[Bruce P Bruner]

To me, it’s a simple aspect of the shell manufacturers business philosophy to sell shotgun shells. Why would they recommend the reuse of all brass cases when they can be reused indefinitely. That would not be a sound business model.
Has anyone ever worn out a 45 ACP brass? I didn’t think so.
As a side note I measured the head thickness of the Parker Bros reproduction brass at approximately 1/8”. In contrast, the balloon head imported 12 gauge all brass case measured approximately 1/2 the thickness of the Parker repro brass.
I also believe the “disk” in the head of modern shells is a protective measure to cover junction of the plastic case wall and the brass head.

[Bill Murphy]

A couple of points: What brand are these "imported" brass cases you mention? What brand are the "reproduction Parker" cases? What brass cases are suitable for using with smokeless powder? Are my beautiful Rocky Mountain Cartridge cases suitable for smokeless powder loads? If not, why not?

[Bruce P Bruner]

Magteck are the imported ones from Brazil. I have those in 16 and 12 gauge. They aren’t the quality of the TOW or RMC.
https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Brass-Hulls/products/202/
Track of the wolf Parker reproduction brass:
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/139/1/shot-shell-10-2-58
Bill, your Rocky Mountain brass, as you know are top quality.
I don’t know why smokeless powders are not recommended for brass shells.
Like you, I would like to know.
I have shot and reloaded countless brass shells with BP and they have always worked flawlessly.

[Matt Buckley]

I have read of the brass shells cracking sometimes from the pressure of smokeless powder. I would assume that is probably more of an issue with the cheaper Magtech brass.

[Bruce P Bruner]

Factory examples of smokeless brass shells.
Note: These are Not Damascus friendly, however, with the proper amount of powder and velocity perhaps they could be safely used. I would never use a roll crimp.

[William Woods]

Impressive group Bruce.