Guns Made for HD Folsom

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Going back to a previous thread 4-5 months ago there was discussion on this forum about the guns Parker made for HD Folsom with the special "trap buttplate" The info I have says the mold for this buttplate was sent to Parker by Folsom to be used on special "trap" guns that they ordered. As discussed earlier a few of these guns have come to light, I have a 12ga 30" laminated steel barrel gun, and have talked to others with 10ga guns, most guns that have surfaced are long barrel guns 32" and more. Some of our members have researched and found several "runs" of these guns in 12ga 36", 38" 40" barrels. This winter I had time on my hands and scanned by eye the Parker Serialization book and verified these results, which brings me to my point. I found 4 - 38" 16ga guns ordered, I could not find these in The Parker Story under "grades" I could have missed some but checked twice in all grades. But these guns were usually lower grade guns, I have been lucky enough to find one of these 16ga guns with 38" barrels complete with Parker letter authenticating the gun as correct.It has the Pigeon buttplate, Interestingly on a 0 frame with milled out water table, why I do not know, since the barrels weigh almost as much as the rest of the gun, serial range 46000 I had the gun at the Southern. Does any one else have a 16ga Folsom gun, If so please send me info on it Thanks Gary

[Mark Conrad]

Gary, the Serialization book was basically taken from the stock books. Grade 3 or high guns from the order books were added where a stock book was missing. So, where you have a stock book missing and we have an order book covering that same time period, the grade 3 and higher guns were added to the Serialization database. There is a list of stock books in the front of the Serialization book showing the books that are missing. In other words, where a stock book is missing, the only guns you see in that serial number range are grade 3 or higher.

Mark

[Bill Murphy]

One order for 38" and 40" Folsom guns with trap buttplates is order #49457, May 11, 1892. There were eight hammer guns with twist barrels, four hammer guns with laminated barrels, and three hammerless guns with twist barrels. Seven were 38" and eight were 40". All had trap butts.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Where were this long barrel guns going, Do you think they were made as ordered or put in stock at a hardware store, I have seen one advertisement sort of saying that these guns were made to order for Folsom, I guess they new how to market like Parker, Well the plot thickens will have to dig deeper there is more to this! has to be!

[Bill Murphy]

Folsom published awesome catalogs. I only have one, missed a great buy on a bunch of others recently at a local auction. I would guess that the "Trap Guns" were offered in the catalogs rather than jobbed out to individual retailers. Where are they today?

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Bill, good question! Can you get to any archives of magazines that possibly had Folsom advertisments, If so PM me to tell me how or just post here I am sure there is a good bit of interest in this. Gary

[Russ Jackson]

Just curious ,what is the highest grade of " The Trap Gun " that was sold by Folsom that anyone has seen ?

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Russ, Ihave a grade 1 12ga, 0 grade 16 I have never seen any over grade one they might be out there just never seen them

[Russ Jackson]

Still ,have yet to receive a letter on mine ,look for it any day ! Mine appears to be a # 1 Grade also , in 10 Ga. . This has turned into an interesting ,discussion ,it may be something to follow up on and may make a nice and informative article in the Parker Pages ! I wonder just how many of the guys in the PGCA own one of these and just how many were sold ?Also it would be interesting to find the earliest serial # for these guns ! Once I receive my letter ,should my gun actually be one of these guns sold by H & D Folsom ,my guns serial is 27425 , would you other owners care to list your serials and possibly we can come up with a Data Base for these Trap Guns ,if it hasn't already been done ! Russ

[Bill Murphy]

In the 1892 order, there were only $55 hammer guns and $65 hammerless guns. The hammerless would have been PH, Grade 1 and the hammer were also Twist Steel guns, probably 0 or 1 Grade guns. I have never seen a Trap Gun any higher grade.

[Jeff Kuss]

I had a grade 2 sent to me several years ago. I returned it as it didn't have enough condition for the price.

[Bill Murphy]

Come on, Jeff. It's no negative comment about a person or dealer to say you sent a gun back. At least you got your money back. Who was it? By the way, when are you going to sell me....Oh, never mind.

[Bill Zachow]

21 of the trap guns ordered under #14744 in 1882 were grade 2 guns, 9 12 gauges and 12 10 gauges. The 12s listed for $80 (net $50.01 after discount), and the 10s, $85 (net $53.14).

[Bill Murphy]

In my opinion, the deep discounts Parker Brothers offered their dealers were the downfall of their gun business.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Bill, I wonder what the percentage the dealers marked the guns up to the general public and I guess that some of these guns had been ordered and some for stock, but again I don't see any body ordering these long barrel guns for stock, Folsom had to advertise these special Parker guns, Love to see some of that advertisment Gary

[Bill Murphy]

My only Folsom catalog is from the twenties and has nothing like that in it. I searched la84foundation.com and found nothing either. We need Folsom catalogs from around the turn of the century.

[Jeff Kuss]

I've tryed to buy the early catalogs, but there seems to be a high collector demand for them. They can get very expensive.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Jeff, Where did you find any for sale? I have not seen any anywhere Thanks Gary

[Bill Murphy]

A Pennsylvania auction had a prime little collection of Folsom catalogs a few months ago. I was nosing a shotgun and let the paper go to another bidder.

[Jeff Kuss]

I see them on ebay quite often.

[Jeff Kuss]

Gary,
Cornell Publications have several reprints on ebay for around $14 a copy.

[Bill Murphy]

Thanks, Jeff. I never thought to look there.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Yes thanks very much jeff for the info

[Robin Lewis]

I did a little research on long barreled Parkers, I was wondering what the longest barrel length was. From what I found, it looks to be 40 inches. I found that there were 46 Parke's sold with 40 inch barrels. There were a few entries bigger than 40 inches in the Ser & ID book but I think they were entered in error.

The first thing I noticed was that some of these guns were made in consecutive serial numbers, which posed the question, “Were they special order guns?”

I noted that there are three groups of 12 gauge guns serial numbers 47641 – 47645, 53623 – 53627 and 80371 – 80375 as well as a 10 gauge group numbered 135632 – 135634.

So, I asked Mark Conrad if he could look at some of the sequential serial numbered guns for me and tell me if they were simply a production run of long barreled guns or a special order. As usual, it didn’t take long for Mark to reply.

I learned that all the 12 gauge guns were ordered by H. D. Folsom in New York City. In the first order (47641 – 47645), there were five 12 gauge at 40 inches, twenty 12 gauge at 38 inches, seven 12 gauge at 36 inches and five 12 gauge at 34 inches; all what I regard as long barrels. The stocks on the 40 inch guns were to have a length of 14 ¼ to 14 ½ inches and a drop of 3 to 3 ½ inches. And they all were to have trap butt plates.
H. D Folsom’s second order (53623 – 53627) was about the same, with four 12 gauge at 40 inches, two 12 gauge at 38 inches etc. Again, they were all to have trap butt plates.

Their third order (80371 – 80375) had five 12 gauge at 40 inches and ten 12 gauge at 38 inches but no mention of the trap butt plates.

The 40 inch, 10 gauge order (135632 – 135634) was made by the American Trading Co. in NY back in 1905.

I have only seen one loooooong barreled Parker and I think it was "only" 38 inches. Assuming 46+ guns were made with 40 inch barrels and none seem to ever come to light; I wounder why?

And, what was their intended use. I can imagine one made here and there for an individual but it seems odd that they would be made in production runs like this.

Has anyone handled a 40 inch Parker?

[Mark Conrad]

There may be a few more out there than what is listed in TPS. Stock books 13,18, and 20 are missing. The Serialization book does not have the grades 0, 1 and 2 where the stock books are missing. It does have the grade 3 or higher. Most of these guns were in the lower grades.

I suspect these guns were the early trap guns and were being used at the traps in NYC which is where they were all going. They had more drop than the latter trap guns but the higher stocks came 5 to 10 years latter. Guns with less that 2 1/2 inches of drop in this time period are hard to find.

Mark

[charlie cleveland]

some body posted a picture of a young man holding a 40 INCH BARREL 10 GA I THINK HE WAS SAID TO HAVE BEEN TURKEY HUNTING WITH IT...does anyone else remember the gun... charlie

[Russ Jackson]

Charlie ,I remember ,a picture of a Gentleman and his son ,both holding their Parker guns and one was said to be a 40 " Barreled gun ,I don't recall the gauge and I thought it was in the Parker Pages ,I looked through them though and can't seem to locate it ! Maybe someone else will have it or recall this ! Russ

[John Truitt]

I believe its in the back (very end) of vol 2 of TPS in the picture section.

[Robert Delk]

Yes, the picture is in back of the book and years ago there was a really worn Parker with 40" barrels at a gun show with a guy that had bought it in Canada. Not much interest then in a really worn gun with long barrels but I remember he said he had bought it from a general store that traded with the indians and he thought it might have come from them.Guy had a bunch of furs and eskimo artifacts and I think that was the only gun he had lying on a nice polar bear skin.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

I think the gentleman you guys are speaking of is Charlie Green and his son hunting with his 40" gun in Tazwell V.A.