old gun, new shells

[Clark McCombe]

A novice question:
is it advisable or safe, to use new shells in an old gun, specifically 1 oz steel shot 1165 fps in a 1918 16 ga.
or 1 oz steel 1325 fps in a 1928 12 ga.
Now that I have these Parkers, I'm almost afraid to use them after doing some reading.
My son was looking at a new Beretta. I was trying to talk him out of it, but now Im not so sure...

[Dean Romig]

Don’t use steel shot - there alternatives in the realm of non-tox ammo. And besides, that’s too stiff of a load for those barrels and 100+ year old wood.

Be kind to your old guns. Shop around for appropriate loads. I try to stay below 1175 fps and below 7,000 lbs chamber pressure.

RST makes appropriate loads for your guns and they kill just as well.





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[Stan Hillis]

I was just recently made aware of this offering to those of us with short chambered vintage guns. Looks like a viable option.

Twelve gauge, 2.5", 6100 psi, 1170 fps. Also available in 16 ga. Now, if they'll just offer it in 20 . . . . .

https://claysammo.com/armusa-12-ga-2-5-vintage-classico-28-1-oz-1170-fps-1-case-of-250-shells-from-145-free-shipping/

[Clark McCombe]

Thank you Stan,
Im learning something everyday!

[Garry L Gordon]

Clark, have you had your guns inspected by a knowledgeable person? Do you know the barrel wall thickness (bwt) of them? Always good to be safe.

[Clark McCombe]

Hi Garry,
I was reading about barrel wall thickness last night. I doubt the local gun shop would be able to measure.
Is there an annual meeting of the PGCA in the northeast where someone might have a look give an opinion?

[Bill Murphy]

Spring Southern Side by Side in Sanford, NC. April.

[john pulis]

Clark,

The Ace hardware in Hampton Bays is operated by a gunsmith who has a shop in the rear. Give the store a call. If I remember correctly he has a wall thickness gauge. A friend in St. James has one as well.

Gary Downy, Osprey Arms, in Central Islip also has one.

See you Friday.

John

[Clark McCombe]

What a deep rabbit hole I'm following.. not as simple as "point and shoot"
it's great fun and a great education!

[edgarspencer]

SURE BLOWS AWAY RST Prices. Harry

Says the guy who's too cheap to pay $40 a year for an annual PGCA membership.

Clark, as the old expression goes,"Horses For Courses". There are plenty of Bismuth choices for using your Parkers for ducks. You're only going to shoot up a few boxes a year. If using inexpensive ammo is your criteria, buy the Beretta.
I may be at the far end off the spectrum, but I haven't bought a box of shotshells in many years because I load everything with recipes designed for the guns I shoot. It isn't to save a few bucks, it's to be able to shoot all of my Parkers.

[Andrew Sacco]

I was just recently made aware of this offering to those of us with short chambered vintage guns. Looks like a viable option.

Twelve gauge, 2.5", 6100 psi, 1170 fps. Also available in 16 ga. Now, if they'll just offer it in 20 . . . . .

https://claysammo.com/armusa-12-ga-2-5-vintage-classico-28-1-oz-1170-fps-1-case-of-250-shells-from-145-free-shipping/

I am shooting my way through 30 flats of Armusa in my O/U's and it's great ammo. It's 2 3/4", 1oz #8 1250fps we paid $90 a flat delivered from our distributor who shoots bunker in Binghamton twice a year. I'm going to see if he can get these, they look great.

[Mike Koneski]

I was just recently made aware of this offering to those of us with short chambered vintage guns. Looks like a viable option.

Twelve gauge, 2.5", 6100 psi, 1170 fps. Also available in 16 ga. Now, if they'll just offer it in 20 . . . . .

https://claysammo.com/armusa-12-ga-2-5-vintage-classico-28-1-oz-1170-fps-1-case-of-250-shells-from-145-free-shipping/

They'll be alright if he's looking for hunting loads. All they have right now are #5 and #6. They are out of #7 1/2.

[Drew Hause]

More than you probably want to read Clark, but this might be helpful
https://www.shotgunworld.com/threads/is-my-gun-safe-what-load-was-my-gun-designed-to-shoot.366087/

We know the loads that Parker recommended and now have good data as to the pressures those loads generated. It is prudent to use lower recoiling loads in our vintage doubles however.

[Mike Koneski]

We know the loads that Parker recommended and now have good data as to the pressures those loads generated. It is prudent to use lower recoiling loads in our vintage doubles however.

As Drew stated, no need to beat the snot out of those 100 year old wooden stocks.

[William Woods]

I was just recently made aware of this offering to those of us with short chambered vintage guns. Looks like a viable option.

Twelve gauge, 2.5", 6100 psi, 1170 fps. Also available in 16 ga. Now, if they'll just offer it in 20 . . . . .

https://claysammo.com/armusa-12-ga-2-5-vintage-classico-28-1-oz-1170-fps-1-case-of-250-shells-from-145-free-shipping/

I have ordered from them and received the 12GA rounds. The 16GA will not be available until January according to the website. I ordered two cases of the 16GA shells. The 16's are only available in 7 1/2 shot size currently.

I have yet to fire any of the rounds I have received from them.

[Daniel Gates]

I use the 2.5” Gamebore Regal 28gram #5 and #6 in my 1913 Hooton and Jones and Parker VH for pheasants, Partridge and Grouse and they extract fine and don’t in my opinion have much felt recoil in the light weight gun. That being said I haven’t shot any out of any of my Damascus guns but know a guy with a GH that uses them every year for grouse when he goes moose hunting they definitely aren’t the most economical shells in Canada but the quality of the hulls are nice for reloading.

[Dean Romig]

I never hesitate to shoot them in my “Damascus” guns as long as the loads don’t exceed the pressures these guns were made to shoot… and I always shoot shells that are length-appropriate to my measured chamber depths.





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[Rick Roemer]

I noticed a vendor in our Parker Pages magazine and decided to give them a try. They make low pressure/low velocity shells. This ammo works well for me. I use number four shot in 12 gauge. I see they also have 16. Salt Creek Ammo
https://saltcreekammo.com/products/low-pressure-16-gauge-2-5-bismuth-20-rounds

[Scott Chapman]

I noticed a vendor in our Parker Pages magazine and decided to give them a try. They make low pressure/low velocity shells. This ammo works well for me. I use number four shot in 12 gauge. I see they also have 16. Salt Creek Ammo
https://saltcreekammo.com/products/low-pressure-16-gauge-2-5-bismuth-20-rounds

I used Salt Creek with my Trojan 12 and they killed ducks just fine.

But my favorite is Boss 16 gauge 3 drams #5 through my 16 Trojan as well as Boss 2 3/4" 3/5 through the Trojan 12. The Boss aren't low pressure and aren't short chambered but I'm not too concerned.

My grandfather ran 2 3/4" Remington Express and Winchester Super X through them just fine.

The wood seems to handle it fine. If you are shooting ducks and pheasants it's not like you are pounding hundreds of rounds down range.

I did have the barrels checked out by Kirk Merrington before I proceeded.

[Clark McCombe]

Great information,
Thank you to all.
My idea of fun would be to get to know this old gun as I have gotten to know an old tractor I use. It has its characteristics and quirks, the way it sounds and handles means something to me. No one can just jump on it and expect to get it started and run flawlessly.
I expect the Parker is the same way - incredible craftsmanship - but also requires the respect it deserves to perform as it is capable of.

[allen newell]

You're absolutely correct Clark. To own and shoot a Parker we form a special relationship with them and respect for the craftsmen who made these fine sxs's.

[Clark McCombe]

Another question :)
What does “overload” mean
Stamped under the barrels
Apparently by someone else
Does not look very professional

[Drew Hause]

This? The Parker Bros. Overload Proved stamp first appeared about 1925

https://photos.smugmug.com/US-Makers/Parker/i-5KsnGDb/0/MfDJNrwJ7wf25SNFqqzCBvCWzWg2kVwB4C4zSqNMB/L/Parker%20Overload%20Proved%201926%20DH-L.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/US-Makers/Parker/i-5KsnGDb/A)

A Parker Service and Proof Load table was published in the 1930s and reproduced in the The Parker Story p. 515.
12g 2 3/4” shell service pressure was listed as 10,500 psi.
Definitive proof used 7.53 Drams Black Powder and 2 oz. shot with a pressure of 15,900 psi. The pressure was no doubt measured using LUP and modern transducer values would be 10-14% higher, or more than 17,500 psi.

LTC Calvin Goddard reported the same numbers in “Army Ordnance”, 1934. He wrote that Parker followed the SAAMI standards of that period: 13,700 psi proof, 9500 psi service for 2 5/8” chamber; 15,900 psi proof, 10,500 psi service for 2 3/4” chamber (by LUP) + 10-14% for modern transducer measurement.

[Clark McCombe]

Yes
This shows up on my second Parker
A 1928 12 ga
I still don’t plan to use anything other than the lights rounds :)
Thank you

[Clark McCombe]

pardon my attempts to upload picture - not as easy as drag it over !130437

maybe this worked!
now my questions
is this a 2 grade ? meaning weight?
and the rest of the markings?
I really appreciate the patience of the members
Happy New Year

[Garry L Gordon]

A 2 frame 12 gauge with unstruck barrel weight of 3 pounds, 15 ounces.

[Clark McCombe]

Good Morning,
Would there be a reason not to use the AA shells?
They appear to be a very light load. I have used
Would appreciate a comparison of the two.
Thank You !

[Drew Hause]

This is old independent testing data. Winchester declines to share pressure data. FPS and PSI

AA ‘Low noise Low recoil’ 15/16 oz. AA12FL 980 6,200
Old AACF Xtra-Lite 1 oz. WAAL12 1,190 8,000
New AAHS Xtra-Lite Target 1 oz. AAL12 1,180 8,760
Old AA 3 Dr. Eq. 1 1/8 oz. Trap WW12AAP 1,200 9,600
Super-Target 1 oz. TRGTL12 1,200 10,440
Super Sport Sporting Clays 1 1/8 oz. AASC12 1,360 11,660

IMHO if barrels are unsafe with 1 oz. at 1200 fps loads, they are unsafe.

[Clark McCombe]

It looks like then the AA low noise are ok?
They’re available locally to me for about $17 a box

[edgarspencer]

Those are ridiculously light. I think you're over reacting.

[Craig Larter]

A #2 frame Parker will digest 2 3/4" 1 1/8oz 1200 fps all day long. Just buy what Walmart has available.

[Pete Lester]

A #2 frame Parker will digest 2 3/4" 1 1/8oz 1200 fps all day long. Just buy what Walmart has available.

Hard to beat the Fiocchi Shooting Dynamics 1 ounce at 1200 fps for both price, performance and a gentle loading. Natchez has them on sale right now. Occasionally they offer $5 flat rate shipping or free shipping over $99. Keep an eye on their site.

https://www.natchezss.com/fiocchi-12ga-heavy-shooting-dynamics-2-34-1oz-8-shot-1200-fps-25rd-xn12sd1h8

[Clark McCombe]

Thinking it all through here. I don’t want to do damage to gun or fingers.
My 12 ga is a 2 frame
The 16 ga is a 1 1/2
Being a smaller gun I would imagine 1 1/8 oz would cause more pressure ?
Both guns are Trojans and are tight. Barrel wall thickness has not been checked.
Now that I’m getting deeper I was thinking of investing in the bench mic tool.
Would gladly share if I decide to get it.

[Jeff Kuss]

Natchezss has free shipping on ammo over $250 right now.

[Clark McCombe]

I'm trying to be cautious with these old Parkers.
just received a chamber gauge from Connecticut Shotgun. According to the gauge, the Parkers I have are all 2 1/2 chambers. I was lead to believe that the one Parker that was stamped overload had 2 3/4 chambers and I was using 2 3/4 shells in that one. It was only with this new gauge that I was able to measure accurately. Is it unwise/unsafe to use 2 3/4 shells in a gun with 2 1/2 chambers? I know the shells fit just fine, but it is as they are fired and open up that the length of the shell exceeds the length of the chamber.

[John Davis]

Are you sure they don’t measure 2 5/8, which are intended for 2 3/4 inch shells.

[Clark McCombe]

Looks to me like 2 1/2
2 5/8 should be halfway to 3/4

[Dean Romig]

Yes that’s 2 1/2” and no, you shouldn’t use 2 3/4” shells.
They fit because the measurement of the chambers are for open (fired) shells. Open 2 3/4” shrells would NOT fit without pushing them hard.





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[Clark McCombe]

That's what I was afraid of. Big difference in availability and cost between 1/2 and 3/4 shells. Also have a 16 ga chambered this way for 2 1/2 and this shells are out of stock. Looks like next step is to reload.

[Dean Romig]

I reload all of my 2 1/2” shells, 12, 16 and 20 gauge. But then, components aren’t easy to find either… and they’re not cheap either.





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[Mike Koneski]

I find it hard to believe those guns are chambered for 2 1/2” shells. Out of all my Parkers I only have one that is truly a 2 1/2” gun. That is a top-lever O frame 16g hammer gun. I’d get a good digital caliper to take your measurements. I was never a fan of those drop-in chamber and choke gauges.

One can always have the chambers lengthened if your BWT is good.

[Bill Murphy]

What "expensive" components are specifically for 2 1/2" shells? I use the same primers, powder, wads, and shot for both 2 1/2" and 2 3/4" shells. I load in 2 1/2" RST empties that I pick up at Side by Side shoots.

[Clark McCombe]

What is the downside to lengthening the chamber to 2 5/8 or 2 3/4?

[Mike Koneski]

What is the downside to lengthening the chamber to 2 5/8 or 2 3/4?

If it’s a “shooter” which is a gun that will be used instead of looked at and held onto as an investment, the upside is being able to shoot regular competition or hunting loads out of it.

[Mike Koneski]

What "expensive" components are specifically for 2 1/2" shells? I use the same primers, powder, wads, and shot for both 2 1/2" and 2 3/4" shells. I load in 2 1/2" RST empties that I pick up at Side by Side shoots.

Bill, the majority of 2 1/2” recipes call for Gualandi “short gun” SG wads which are designed to fit in the smaller capacity hulls.

[Stan Hillis]

What is the downside to lengthening the chamber to 2 5/8 or 2 3/4?

Loss of originality, nothing else as long as the barrel wall thicknesses are sufficient to safely do the chamber lengthening. As Mike said, no real downside for a shooter.

[Clark McCombe]

I might leave the GHE and the 20 ga alone but the 12 ga Trojans and 16 Trojan I like to shoot.
Any recommendation on who could do the work?

[Bill Murphy]

Mike, regardless of what your recipes call for, I use any wad that fits in the shell and doesn't hang out the front. The wad I have been using for a few hundred 2 1/2" RST 7/8 ounce loads is a green wad with short petals, don't remember the brand. The loads are beautiful with flat tops. I have two other wads that are identical to the green one in height, one pink, and the other WW Grey.

[Craig Larter]

From Sherman Bell's Article in the 2001 Winter DGJ Long Shells in Short Chambers
“Shooting 2 3/4” shells in 2 1/2” chambers does make them produce more pressure-but in most cases it is less than a 1000 psi increase. I see no reason, related to safety, to modify an original 2 1/2” chambered gun to shoot 2 3/4” shells, if the 2 3/4” load you intend to use would develop pressure that is safe in that gun, when fired in a standard chamber!”

[Drew Hause]

Craig: as you know that statement was based on a study of 12g shells
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZIo0y746UsSRZIgRuuxwAbZjSBHitO_EanvwLYc-kGA/edit?tab=t.0

We have NO data regarding using long for chamber 16g or 20g shells.

Again, some modern nominally 2 3/4" shells are shorter than 2 3/4". It was recently reported that Aguila 16s were short
https://trueshotammo.com/ammunition/shotgun-ammo/16-gauge/aguila/aguila-16ga-16-gauge-7-5-shot-3-0-1-oz-1200-fps/

[Clark McCombe]

Are Manufactures supposed to release the pressure for their various loads?
I've been using Fiocchi 12 ga 2 3/4 " 1oz 1250 fps 7.5 shot shells in an $800 Trojan which I found out yesterday, when I got my little feeler gauge, only has 2 1/2" chambers.
I immediately switched to using RST 2 1/2" shells.
The Fiocchi cost $120 a flat
the RST $230 plus shipping.
I can:
Practice with an old Remington 1100 I have, which I would rather not do.
Have the chambers lengthened on the Trojan.
Continue to use the Fiocchi in the 2 1/2" chambers.
Or be distracted by the thought that every time I pull one of the triggers it will cost me a dollar if I switch to the RST, and accept the fact that using the old gun I like will cost me.
Your thoughts please.....

[Drew Hause]

The U.S. makers decline to provide pressure data, and with the exception of Tom Armbrust, those doing ballistic testing won't test factory loads.
Most of the Italian makers do.
B&P Comp One 28 gm is only 6530 psi

IMHO it is likely your 12 g chamber is 2 5/8"
There is an easy way to measure chamber length using a 3" x 5" index card, rolled lengthwise, and slid into the chamber. It will partially unroll and expand to the chamber diameter.
Gently advance the card until it stops at the end of the chamber (where the forcing cone constriction starts), use a pencil to mark the card at the breech end of the barrel, and repeat the steps to see if it always comes to same spot.
Then use a ruler to measure the length marked on the card.
The chamber must be clean, and it works best with a new 3” X 5” card.

Let us know what you find.
If 2 5/8" (and I recognize we're quibbling over 1/8") pick a 1 oz at 1200 fps, shoot and be happy.
It's more difficult with 16g and 20g loads.

[John Davis]

Or a 1 1/8 oz., 1145 fps load.

[Dean Romig]

What "expensive" components are specifically for 2 1/2" shells? I use the same primers, powder, wads, and shot for both 2 1/2" and 2 3/4" shells. I load in 2 1/2" RST empties that I pick up at Side by Side shoots.


My comment was meant to imply the fact that components aren’t so cheap anymore, not just for 2 1/2” loading.





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[Clark McCombe]

Getting closer to figuring this out...
3 X 5 card resulted in more or less the same as the feeler gauge
Pic 1 is a 20 ga sold to me as a 2 1/2 chambered gun
Pic 2 is a 12 ga which I thought was 2 3/4 but probably 2 5/8 the way the markings fall compared to the 20 ga
I checked my 16 ga and the markings fall the same as the 20 ga - so that one must be 2 1/2 and currently cannot find shells for.
Clays ammo has them in a container off the coast of Florida.
My plan is to use the light load 2 3/4 shells in the 12 ga
RST 2 1/2 shells in the 20 ga
And continue searching for the 16 ga 2 1/2 shells.
Would love to find shells for the .410 that was just offered for sale, but that may have to wait a while :)

[Dean Romig]

I might leave the GHE and the 20 ga alone but the 12 ga Trojans and 16 Trojan I like to shoot.
Any recommendation on who could do the work?

You can certainly shoot 2 3/4” ammo in a Trojan without lengthening chambers. I’ve been doing it in all of my Trojans since 1961…





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[edgarspencer]

Your picture seems to me to show your chambers are 2 5/8", intended for 2 3/4" ammunition.

[Mike Koneski]

Mike, regardless of what your recipes call for, I use any wad that fits in the shell and doesn't hang out the front. The wad I have been using for a few hundred 2 1/2" RST 7/8 ounce loads is a green wad with short petals, don't remember the brand. The loads are beautiful with flat tops. I have two other wads that are identical to the green one in height, one pink, and the other WW Grey.

If they fit in the hull and allow for a good crimp then more power to you. Speaking for my experiences, using standard wads in my 2 1/2” hulls did not result in good crimps. The majority of my 2 1/2” loading is with 16g hulls. I do load 12g too and use short wads for them too.

[Daniel Carter]

Please measure your fired shells. I have found many fired cases in 12 and 20 are short. If the ones you shoot measure to your chamber case closed.

[Steven Groh]

My 1927 16 gauge VH has 2 1/2" chambers on a 1 frame. I also shoot other 2 3/4" 16 gauge guns, and I am thinking about lengthening the chambers to 2 3/4# on the Parker, so that I don't have to worry about which cartridge I put in the gun.
Are #1 frame 16 gauge barrels stout enough to lengthen to 2 3/4"?

[Jeff Elder]

My 1927 16 gauge VH has 2 1/2" chambers on a 1 frame. I also shoot other 2 3/4" 16 gauge guns, and I am thinking about lengthening the chambers to 2 3/4# on the Parker, so that I don't have to worry about which cartridge I put in the gun.
Are #1 frame 16 gauge barrels stout enough to lengthen to 2 3/4"?

The Winchester super X one once measure 2 5/8 so do Agular and hearters

[Steven Groh]

I don’t mean to be argumentative, but the Winchester super X game load is what I shoot out of my modern 16 gauge gun. The spent cartridge measures two and three-quarter inches overall and 2 11/16 inches to the base of the rim.
Saami standards measure length from the standing breech.
Those cartridges will extend 1/4 inch beyond the chamber and into the forcing cone when fired.
My question is, “is that safe?”
I certainly don’t know, but I did have the forcing cones lengthened in hopes that it would make using modern ammunition more safe.

[Clark McCombe]

After much back and forth and hesitation I sent my 1 frame 16 ga barrels to Michael Orlen in Amherst MA. 413 256 1630
He evaluated and said there was plenty of wall thickness to go ahead and lengthen the chambers. I’m very happy with the outcome. I can use 2 3/4 shells - light loads - that are available locally.
Before lengthening the chambers the gun was sometimes difficult to open as the shells seemed to have been forced backwards and expanded in the chambers after firing.

[Jeff Elder]

I don’t mean to be argumentative, but the Winchester super X game load is what I shoot out of my modern 16 gauge gun. The spent cartridge measures two and three-quarter inches overall and 2 11/16 inches to the base of the rim.
Saami standards measure length from the standing breech.
Those cartridges will extend 1/4 inch beyond the chamber and into the forcing cone when fired.
My question is, “is that safe?”
I certainly don’t know, but I did have the forcing cones lengthened in hopes that it would make using modern ammunition more safe.

Well the Winchester 1 once i had measure 2 5/8 the once and 1/8 measured 2 3/4. The way they swap makers there is no telling, but the batch of hulls I was given were short.

[Steven Groh]

My cartridges are 20 years old. Dick's Sporting Goods had a $4.00 price on 16 gauge Winchesters, so I bought all they had (8 flats or so). That's a lifetime supply of game loads, since I don't shoot clays with my 16s!
Lengthening the chambers 1/4" seems the best solution. Thanks.

[Drew Hause]

Steven: to address your question regarding safety of chamber lengthening; it's very likely to be safe.
I had Briley lengthen a 20g Parker with chambers shorter than 2 1/2" without problems. The safety of doing so is entirely related to the end of chamber wall thickness, and most U.S. doubles had generous walls.
That does NOT apply to lightweight British or Continental small bore game guns.

The lengthening must however be done by an expert.
An example of "inexpert" lengthening resulting in a bulge just past the end of the chamber

https://photos.smugmug.com/Barrel-Evaluations/Smith-NDT/i-jT2G8b9/0/LhHMTpZZ9gXRCvxt6N4SMqvvbvNc2pGpGKxvHBTnc/L/No.%200%20Smith%20XR%20%234-L.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Barrel-Evaluations/Smith-NDT/i-jT2G8b9/A)

[Steven Groh]

Mine will be going to Briley too!
Nobody has the precision machining that they do.

[Steven Groh]

I just put one empty on the calipers.
It was 2.722”.
So less than 2 3/4”��
But not by much.

[Steven Groh]

Even 20 gauges?
I just bought an O frame 20 gauge Trojan shooter with 2 1/2” chambers.

[Dean Romig]

Others may disagree but your Trojan 20 has probably seen more 2 3/4" ammo put through it than you might imagine.
I am not afraid to shoot REASONABLE 2 3/4" ammo in my 20 gauge Trojan.






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[Steven Groh]

Others may disagree but your Trojan 20 has probably seen more 2 3/4" ammo put through it than you might imagine.
I am not afraid to shoot REASONABLE 2 3/4" ammo in my 20 gauge Trojan.
.

I am sure you are right.
What percentage of shotgunners even know that 2 1/2” cartridges even exist?
Not to mention that there are no markings on the barrels to indicate chamber length.
I hadn’t thought about it from that perspective.

[Drew Hause]

I had a 1924 Trojan and the chambers were just short of 2 1/2". Recoil with Win AA target loads was wicked. I wasn't smart enough then to check the case mouth for feathering, indicating the mouth entered the forcing cone.

As often posted, today's nominally 2 3/4" shells often are shorter, and I would suggest some dumpster diving at your club and measuring some empties. It would certainly seem reasonable to pick a shorter than 2 3/4" hull. Please let us know if you find one.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Shotshells-and-pressures/Shotshells/i-LsPgXcJ/0/LpSHjhtv5G3RnQ3gRdhckpg9vfdQSkmWK5FxS4wRT/M/Shells1-M.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Shotshells-and-pressures/Shotshells/i-LsPgXcJ/A)

[Clark McCombe]

I wonder if I made the right decision, but I had the chambers lengthened to 2 3/4” by someone qualified to do it and haven’t worried since.
I still look for the lightest BP load or Arma from Clays. And also use the Winchester low recoil at 980 FPS ( #AA12FL8)

[Clark McCombe]

Any thoughts on how these two compare?

[Dean Romig]

They don't compare.





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[John Davis]

Clark, for what it’s worth. I shoot between 8000 and 10,000 registered trap targets a year, double that for practice rounds, all with my Parkers. My choices of ammo are 2 3/4 inch, 1 1/8 oz light target loads, 1145 fps, and 1 1/8 oz heavy target loads, 1200 fps, mostly off the shelf at Walmart. I’m not making any recommendations but my Parkers don’t seem to mind.

[Garry L Gordon]

Wasn’t there a thread on the mini’s? Didn’t they produce higher pressures? Might be worth a search, although I’ll bet someone who knows will eventually chime in.

[Clark McCombe]

I bought a flat of the minis to try - they’re not cheap - they felt “hot” that’s why I was asking.
I’ve settled on Fiocchi 1 0z 1140 fps and the bashiere & pellegri 7/8 oz
Very little recoil on the 7/8 oz

[Drew Hause]

Old data but likely close

Aguila 12ga MINISHELL 1 3/4” 5/8 oz. shot @ 1,175 fps - 11,000 psi
Federal 12g SHORTY 1 3/4” 15/16 oz. shot @ 1,145 fps - 9,500 psi

[Garry L Gordon]

Old data but likely close

Aguila 12ga MINISHELL 1 3/4” 5/8 oz. shot @ 1,175 fps - 11,000 psi
Federal 12g SHORTY 1 3/4” 15/16 oz. shot @ 1,145 fps - 9,500 psi

Thanks, Drew. I thought I remembered those minishells with high psi.

[Steve McCarty]

A novice question:
is it advisable or safe, to use new shells in an old gun, specifically 1 oz steel shot 1165 fps in a 1918 16 ga.
or 1 oz steel 1325 fps in a 1928 12 ga.
Now that I have these Parkers, I'm almost afraid to use them after doing some reading.
My son was looking at a new Beretta. I was trying to talk him out of it, but now Im not so sure...

If I was contemplating using steel shot I'd buy a brand new shotgun with a fixed, no tighter than mod choke. If the gun has screw in chokes, which is pretty common nowadays, I'd use the two most open chokes. Now that is just me. Nor am I an expert on shotguns. I bought an oldish Spanish double once that had a bulge in the barrel that looked like a chicken egg. Ruined the gun, of course. I took it to Keith Kurshier, he took out the egg and opened the chokes. Great shotgun and pretty, but I still, and will never, shoot steel shot thu it.