New Powders and Primers on the Horizon

[Mike Koneski]

https://shotbusiness.com/2024/12/news-briefs/dm-holding-company-announces-facility-expansion/

It will be interesting to see what type of powders they manufacture. Hopefully some will be suitable to using in the reloading of shot-shells.

[Daryl Corona]

Thanks for the link. One can only hope.:cool:

[Garth Gustafson]

I hope they can help us. It's been a long wait for 16ga RST shells. RST update; they are testing new powders trying to come up with a 16 ga 7/8 oz and/or 3/4 oz loads. Fingers crossed they can make something work. Otherwise, I am not sure when, if ever they will be able to run these loads again.

[Mike Koneski]

Garth, that is why we have been reloading pretty much every gauge for years. If shells are available then we can easily buy factory shells. If not, we roll our own.

[Daryl Corona]

^^^^^ What Mike says. I actually prefer my loads over the factory overpriced stuff.

[Garth Gustafson]

Ha! I need to put a MEC Jr on my Xmas list!

[Milt Fitterman]

Somebody should tell them shotgunners use an awful lot of 209 primers. 100 for a round of sporting. Millions for skeet and trap.

[Daryl Corona]

Somebody should tell them shotgunners use an awful lot of 209 primers. 100 for a round of sporting. Millions for skeet and trap.

I'm sure you and I together could account for at least one of those millions.:bigbye:

[CraigThompson]

I'm sure you and I together could account for at least one of those millions.:bigbye:

Jokes aside I betcha since I started loading forty plus years ago I’ve used up half a million 209 primers for myself and I suspect 100k rifle primers if not more .

[Craig Larter]

If you enjoy shooting vintage shotguns in the obsolete gauges, 8ga, 10ga or 16ga, reloading is the only option. Try to find 3/4oz or 7/8oz 1150fps 12ga loads commercially. Try to find a 1 1/8oz bismuth low pressure load for your Parker duck gun. Reloading is easy and gives you a feeling of satisfaction when you dust a clay or drop a bird with your home rolled.

[Garth Gustafson]

So if RST can't get low pressure powder, how am I able to get it?

[Craig Larter]

My son reloads for his 16ga Parker and Sterlingworth. Cheddite (RST) hulls 3/4 oz with longshot and cheddite primers. Claybuster makes a 3/4oz wad for 16ga. A used MEC 600jr and your in business.

[Daryl Corona]

If you enjoy shooting vintage shotguns in the obsolete gauges, 8ga, 10ga or 16ga, reloading is the only option. Try to find 3/4oz or 7/8oz 1150fps 12ga loads commercially. Try to find a 1 1/8oz bismuth low pressure load for your Parker duck gun. Reloading is easy and gives you a feeling of satisfaction when you dust a clay or drop a bird with your home rolled.

The real savings are in the 28 and .410.

[Daryl Corona]

So if RST can't get low pressure powder, how am I able to get it?

It's not that difficult Garth. You're not loading thousands of rounds for sale hoping to make a profit. The components are out there and it's quite relaxing.

[Aaron Beck]

Longshot is still easily sourced and works in a variety of gauges and loads. The other components are pretty available to mail order. You can find a used reloader for less than the cost of a case of ...

[matt koepnick]

Ya, the 28 cost savings was the main reason I got into shot shell reloading years ago. Of course an "expensive" case back the was close to 50 bucks.. Took a little while, but once I worked out the crimp bugs on the 28, I quickly jumped onto the MEC JR bandwagon and my 16, and 12 loads all fell into place relatively easy.
As I'm older these days, I'm especially glad to get to reload my low pressure 7/8 and
1 OZ 12's which are soft shooting in Liteweight 12 Bores.

[CraigThompson]

If you enjoy shooting vintage shotguns in the obsolete gauges, 8ga, 10ga or 16ga, reloading is the only option. Try to find 3/4oz or 7/8oz 1150fps 12ga loads commercially. Try to find a 1 1/8oz bismuth low pressure load for your Parker duck gun. Reloading is easy and gives you a feeling of satisfaction when you dust a clay or drop a bird with your home rolled.

By no means am I knocking anyone for loading the lighter 16 loads but for years I shot plain old Winchester Dove and Quail 1 ounce promotional loads in a circa 1916 GH 16 gauge Damascus I had . My loading now is pretty much 8 and 10 only .

[CraigThompson]

Ya, the 28 cost savings was the main reason I got into shot shell reloading years ago. Of course an "expensive" case back the was close to 50 bucks.. Took a little while, but once I worked out the crimp bugs on the 28, I quickly jumped onto the MEC JR bandwagon and my 16, and 12 loads all fell into place relatively easy.

When I first started loading for shotguns back in the mid 80’s I think I could load a box of 410’s for $1.50 , 28’s a dollar more , 20’s about the same and 12’s for less than $3 . A big part of getting better component prices was BUY IN QUANTITY which is a practice I’ve pretty much followed my entire reloading career .

[Pete Lester]

So if RST can't get low pressure powder, how am I able to get it?

RSTShotshells are good people but I have wondered for a very long time what is holding them back to the extent of their shortage.

It's easier to get low pressures with larger bores and part of the trick to getting low pressure is lighter shot charges and lower velocities.

Perfect Pattern is a widely available powder so is Longshot and Win 572 along with Cheddite primers.

6600 psi at 1200 fps with 7/8 in 12ga using PP powder, Ched primer and Rem Gun Club hull.

7500 psi at 1150 fps with 7/8 in 20ga using Winchester 572, Ched primer and Federal hull. Use 3/4 ounce and pressure goes down and fps goes up.

[Stan Hillis]

The real savings are in the 28 and .410.

Indeed, and in addition you can create loads that are not available for sale anywhere. For example, I created a 3" .410 load for doves and quail that holds .73 oz. of nickel plated lead. The closest thing to it on the market is Winchester's 3/4 oz. lead loads. In testing over the last three years I find the nickel plated shot loads kill "deader" than the Winchester plain lead load . . . i.e., less cripples, more dishrag hits.

I roll crimp them in Cheddite 3" hulls, with Cheddite primers. The cost savings over the standard Winchester loads are huge. And, they debunk the theory that long shot column loads don't pattern well. Patterns are excellent.

https://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/74045_800x600.jpg (https://www.jpgbox.com/page/74045_800x600/)

[Daryl Corona]

Great description with a "dishrag" hit. Sort of like "inkballing" a clay.

Yes custom loading is a huge benefit. I love the 3/4oz load in the 20ga and in the 12ga. Try and find them at your LGS.

[Bill Murphy]

Stan, what is that tool you have chucked into the drill press? I've been using a regular folded crimp on my 3" .410s, but I'm up to trying a roll crimp.

[Pete Lester]

The real savings are in the 28 and .410.

....and Short 10 along with any bismuth load.

[Stan Hillis]

Stan, what is that tool you have chucked into the drill press? I've been using a regular folded crimp on my 3" .410s, but I'm up to trying a roll crimp.

Bill, that is a MEC Super Sizer. The collets interchange for most common gauges. I prefer to use it when resizing hulls that will be reloaded on my single stage presses that don't have a collet resizer. Collet resizing is effortless as compared to ring sizing.


The trick is that I discovered it was the best possible shell holding tool for roll crimping on my drill press. You just hold it tight enough to keep it from spinning. Quick and easy, and keeps you from having to purchase a separate shell holder for the roll crimping process.

[Bill Murphy]

Stan, I know what the Super Sizer is. What is the utensil that creates the roll crimp, and where can I find one?

[Stan Hillis]

Oh, my bad. I didn't read your post closely enough.

It is a 3 pin roll crimper that was produced by a small company/person a few years ago, but is no longer available. It was marketed by the company "Reloader's Network", but a buddy just recently checked on one and said no longer available.

There are other brands that are available, however.

https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!l=MM&i=RC410

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/GAEP-Deep-Neck-Palla-Roll-Crimper-for-Slugs-410/productinfo/GAEPC0241/

[Jerry Harlow]

[QUOTE=Stan Hillis;421617]Indeed, and in addition you can create loads that are not available for sale anywhere. For example, I created a 3" .410 load for doves and quail that holds .73 oz. of nickel plated lead.

Stan,

I think I may have asked before and received the 3/4 oz load from you, but can you share it again? I know that 3/4 oz. was common in .410 before plastic hulls and wads but I have not seen them anymore, only 11/16 oz.

Thanks

[Stan Hillis]

I'll look it up in the shop today and post it this evening, Jerry, if I can remember.

Winchester still markets these in various shot sizes, if you can find them. They're the next best thing to the custom load I use.

https://winchester.com/Products/Ammunition/Shotshell/Super-X/X413H85

[Bill Murphy]

Thanks, Stan. I believe my 3" loads in Remington cases are an honest 3/4 ounce, at least the bushing is a 3/4 ounce bushing. When I get a chance, I will weigh the charge. I found the 600 Junior at my gun club with a "FREE" sign on it. I took it home, cleaned it up, weighed the powder charge, and started pulling the handle. I saw no reason the weigh the shot, but I assume it is 3/4 ounce. The finished shells are to die for, with a nice folded crimp.

[J. Scott Hanes]

Has anyone cut down one of those "3/4" oz loads from Winchester to see if that weight has been achieved? Perhaps the lower powder charge allows for the extra 1/16 oz.

[Stan Hillis]

Here you go, Jerry.

Cheddite hull - Cheddite primer
16.5 gr. H110
Rem SP4103 wad
318-320 grs. shot - .73 oz.

Note: 1 #8 nickel plated shot weighs 1 grain.

This is what I had written inside the lid of the box my loads are in.

[Stan Hillis]

Has anyone cut down one of those "3/4" oz loads from Winchester to see if that weight has been achieved? Perhaps the lower powder charge allows for the extra 1/16 oz.

Can't remember if I ever weighed one or not, Scott. I do know that they are very good game bird loads. That "slow" 1100 fps velocity is misleading. They pattern good and hit like hammers. I love shot shell loads in the 1100 - 1165 fps. range in S X S guns. They seem to always regulate well if the payload is heavy enough. These anemic loads that so many S X S shooters have adopted do not regulate in many vintage guns, IME.

[Stan Hillis]

BTW, I'm also in the middle of fire forming brass 9.3 X 74R cases to make full length .410 brass cases out of them, in an attempt to squeeze a little more shot in them. Just a little fun project. My theory is that there will be greater case capacity with the brass cases over plastic hulls.

I found a lab that will pressure test them for me when I get to that point in the process . . . . maybe next spring.