American Arms Fox Model

[Dave Wade]

I bought this "swing out" Fox model recently because I had never seen this action type before. The hand fitting it took to make these is incredible. This gun has a single line patent date. I have found some online with earlier serial numbers with a 2 line patent date. I have found info about the company and this model, but I would like to determine when it was made, if possible. I appreciate any info you can provide.

Dave

https://i.postimg.cc/Gh728Zgf/20241210_110550.jpg (https://postimg.cc/hfmgN3B8)

https://i.postimg.cc/jd6hPLq3/20241210_084540.jpg (https://postimg.cc/mtDMGZH7)

https://i.postimg.cc/x1typhzK/20241210_084500.jpg (https://postimg.cc/QFKTH6St)

https://i.postimg.cc/MHVmsG7T/20241210_084412.jpg (https://postimg.cc/RJCth4b5)

https://i.postimg.cc/63DhLZGg/20241210_084250.jpg (https://postimg.cc/BLBDJXpB)

https://i.postimg.cc/Pr1SySy4/20241210_084242.jpg (https://postimg.cc/SJNLN7w2)

https://i.postimg.cc/KYpfjwcZ/20241210_084112.jpg (https://postimg.cc/gwR8BM65)

https://i.postimg.cc/rwJQXzvR/20241210_083657.jpg (https://postimg.cc/dhh8GQQJ)

https://i.postimg.cc/xd1g0n2x/20241210_083126.jpg (https://postimg.cc/3kz21MWm)

https://i.postimg.cc/GtWctnby/Screenshot_20241210-073321_Chrome.jpg (https://postimg.cc/BPCW7yLS)

[Dave Wade]

A few more to show how the action works

https://i.postimg.cc/gjcjwFJ5/20241207_154344.jpg (https://postimg.cc/WFKTKy06)
https://i.postimg.cc/mkdDCX1r/20241207_154402.jpg (https://postimg.cc/n9Dpt1k8)

[Dean Romig]

Thank you Dave - I have seen that action once before several years ago… but I don’t remember where.





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[Bill Murphy]

Dave, does the gun fire? I was wondering what is going on in that left firing pin hole.

[Arthur Shaffer]

Looks like the firing pin return spring is missing or broken. One pin is retracted and one not. The top of the pins are protruding different lengths. Should be a relative easy fix. My have to find a spring that fits or make one.

[Dave Noreen]

There was a good article on George H. Fox's American Arms Co. in The American Rifleman, April 1970. There was an article on some of the George H. Fox side-swing hammer doubles by William Furnish and James A. Nelson in the Winter 1994, The Double Gun Journal. I have a reproduction American Arms Co. catalog, offered years ago by Dr. William Paul Smith's PRP Americana, from I believe the late 1870s. It calls the gun the Model of 1877. It shows the gun made in 12- and 10-gauge in 11 grades from $50 to $300. Their 12-gauges were said to be chambered for 2 5/8-inch shells, and their 10-gauges for 2 3/4-inch shells. They also offered heavy 12-gauges built on the 10-gauge frame, chambered for 3-inch shells. Pretty sure in those days it would have been for brass shells.

Later, American Arms Co. built side-cocker single- and double-barrel shotguns --

130010

130008

130009

and a higher quality hammerless double designed by A.E. Whitmore --

130006

130007

They also built a large line of low-priced pistols and revolvers.

George H. Fox died in 1901 amid efforts to move the company first to Milwaukee and then Bluffton, Alabama. Some of the Whitmore guns have Bluffton - Ala. butt plates --

130011

After George died the equipment of the factory, most already packed up for moving, was sold to Marlin. Taxes on the Bluffton property continued to be paid until 1915?!?

[Dave Wade]

Dave, does the gun fire? I was wondering what is going on in that left firing pin hole.

It probably does but I don't plan to. I believe it is just a spring issue. It feels quite heavy for a 12 guage.

[Dave Wade]

There was a good article on George H. Fox's American Arms Co. in The American Rifleman, April 1970. There was an article on some of the George H. Fox side-swing hammer doubles by William Furnish and James A. Nelson in the Winter 1994, The Double Gun Journal. I have a reproduction American Arms Co. catalog, offered years ago by Dr. William Paul Smith's PRP Americana, from I believe the late 1870s. It calls the gun the Model of 1877. It shows the gun made in 12- and 10-gauge in 11 grades from $50 to $300. Their 12-gauges were said to be chambered for 2 5/8-inch shells, and their 10-gauges for 2 3/4-inch shells. They also offered heavy 12-gauges built on the 10-gauge frame, chambered for 3-inch shells. Pretty sure in those days it would have been for brass shells.

Is there any way to tell if my shotgun is the heavy 12 guage? It sure weighs a lot for a 12 guage.

Never mind. This gun is a 10 guage. Dropped a couple 3 inch 12 guage shells in the chambers and they were a little loose. No wonder it weighs so much.

[Mark Britton]

A very cool old gun ! Iv'e never seen one. Thanks for sharing.

[Drew Hause]

c. 1877 catalog

https://photos.smugmug.com/US-Makers/American-Arms-Co-Fox-Gun/i-T88H4D2/0/Mfm6Qsh8BcbCnrqMzRc9tnZzbZRJKkGmxqSWtjcW3/L/Am%20Arms%201-L.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/US-Makers/American-Arms-Co-Fox-Gun/i-T88H4D2/A)

https://photos.smugmug.com/US-Makers/American-Arms-Co-Fox-Gun/i-XL26p5f/0/KJKZ8t2d982zf8h9NZFhST7v87BNRDSrtSrQjXmmS/L/Am%20Arms%202-L.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/US-Makers/American-Arms-Co-Fox-Gun/i-XL26p5f/A)

https://photos.smugmug.com/US-Makers/American-Arms-Co-Fox-Gun/i-CSfRhLQ/0/MP8f72r26f38hwqsK6ddSjHm8KLRDzpmHvFwh2RVB/M/Am%20Arms%203-M.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/US-Makers/American-Arms-Co-Fox-Gun/i-CSfRhLQ/A)

https://photos.smugmug.com/US-Makers/American-Arms-Co-Fox-Gun/i-cDJPrVF/0/KvN3nQ8j9Kp75LxQH5JTGvgFTMt95JxGmcB2mfPPP/L/Am%20Arms%204-L.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/US-Makers/American-Arms-Co-Fox-Gun/i-cDJPrVF/A)

https://photos.smugmug.com/US-Makers/American-Arms-Co-Fox-Gun/i-54ScLzr/0/MDXLDt5zsXBczfR7BNd5BdC9TvKRpT4QzVLC4z3ZJ/L/Am%20Arms%205-L.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/US-Makers/American-Arms-Co-Fox-Gun/i-54ScLzr/A)

[Dave Wade]

Thank you Drew! Those are excellent.

[Dave Wade]

Looks like the firing pin return spring is missing or broken. One pin is retracted and one not. The top of the pins are protruding different lengths. Should be a relative easy fix. My have to find a spring that fits or make one.

I took the firing pins out. They are free-floating and don't use springs.

[Dave Wade]

Hey Drew, I see you are quite knowledgeable about damascus. Any insights about my barrels? Or do you need better pictures? Thanks!

[Arthur Shaffer]

I took the firing pins out. They are free-floating and don't use springs.

That's interesting. I am asking out of pure interest in old designs. The pictures from the side of the hammers and firing pins show the hammers in a slightly retracted position and one pin in and one out. Are the hammers rebounding or are they resting on a half cock notch. Either way it seems odd that both pins are not fully down with no springs. One maybe more lose than the other. When you had the pins out, did it look like the pin was designed such that a spring would work? It wouldn't be the first old double where someone simply removed and tossed broken springs. I have several old doubles of early 1870s vintage that have half cock notches and no pin springs and the procedure to reload requires a manual half cock before opening to keep from jambing the pins in the primer. Just wondering about the design.

[Dave Wade]

That's interesting. I am asking out of pure interest in old designs. The pictures from the side of the hammers and firing pins show the hammers in a slightly retracted position and one pin in and one out. Are the hammers rebounding or are they resting on a half cock notch. Either way it seems odd that both pins are not fully down with no springs. One maybe more lose than the other. When you had the pins out, did it look like the pin was designed such that a spring would work? It wouldn't be the first old double where someone simply removed and tossed broken springs. I have several old doubles of early 1870s vintage that have half cock notches and no pin springs and the procedure to reload requires a manual half cock before opening to keep from jambing the pins in the primer. Just wondering about the design.

The hammers are rebounding. Both pins move freely in and out. They just happen to be in different positions in the photos. Their design does not support using springs,

[Dave Noreen]

I see the price list Dr. Drew posted is dated Feb. 10, 1881, and that rebounding locks had become "standard." The price list in my 1877 catalog has rebounding locks $3 extra on the grades up through 6.

130027

My take is that your gun is a No. 6 with the extras of a pistol grip and rebounding locks.

Here is the page from the catalog that states the guns are chambered for brass or paper cases and mentions the chamber lengths.

130028

[Dave Wade]

Thank you for those additional pages. I'm guessing my gun is an early one due to the single line patent date, but I found at least one other one with a lower serial number with the 2 line dates. Any thoughts on that?