RST

[Bob Hayes]

Is RST ever going to ramp back up.I would think components are available now.Other manufacturers and several more new manufacturers don't seem to have supply problems.

[Mike Koneski]

If you go to their website they do have a limited supply of various shells.

[randall rosenthal]

other far less expensive options....

[Bob Hayes]

I have looked and bought shells but a limited supply as stated.I'm not complaining just inquiring if anyone has any inside knowledge.Five years ago they were stocked and at the Southern SXS with a full trailer.Now limited stock I would think components would be available now.Most other suppliers and manufacturers are.Cost is a whole other issue.

[Pete Lester]

How dependent were RST recipes on Alliant or other hard to impossible to get powders? Many Remington wads are also not available. Things are far from the pre Covid days when it comes to reloading components.

[Bill Murphy]

Randall, what are the pressure levels of the shells you picture? Morris Baker and RST claims lower pressures suitable for composite barrels. Other makers of short shells with light shot loads do not make those claims.

[Rick Roemer]

To Mr Murphy’s point, I purchased several boxes of 2 1/2” Shenk brand shells only to find they are way beyond safe in our vintage side by sides.

[Dean Romig]

Last time I spoke with Morris he told me that the powder they use for the low pressure loads is the same that is used fore some of the military purposes. That’s one of the reasons…





.

[randall rosenthal]

Randall, what are the pressure levels of the shells you picture? Morris Baker and RST claims lower pressures suitable for composite barrels. Other makers of short shells with light shot loads do not make those claims.

The Armusa says “low pressure” and the BpS says “6000psi” on the label. I have shot a few flats of each through my 1924 Fox and 1904 Parker with absolutely no problems and frankly I’m not skilled enough to tell the difference between them. They both work fine.

[Joe Graziano]

If you can find them, Gamebore 2.5 inch has made its way into the US. They are excellent.

[Russell E. Cleary]

Joe:

I tried the 2.5 inch Gamebores in my two VH Parker 16s (one a 0-frame, the other a 1- frame) and they were not low-recoil on my shoulder.

Then I went with RSTs and there was no comparison with regard to perceived pressure.

[Daryl Corona]

Russell, recoil and pressure are not related. Velocity and charge weight is what you feel in recoil.

[john pulis]

The ARMUSA Vintage 2.5” are 420 BAR, not sure about the others. Both are soft on the shoulder and break clays just fine.

[Bill Murphy]

How does 420 BAR translate into pressure as we understand it?

[Mike Koneski]

The Armusa says “low pressure” and the BpS says “6000psi” on the label. I have shot a few flats of each through my 1924 Fox and 1904 Parker with absolutely no problems and frankly I’m not skilled enough to tell the difference between them. They both work fine.

Morris said they tested the BPS shells to see if they really were a lower pressure and he said they did test as BPS claims.

[Mike Koneski]

To Mr Murphy’s point, I purchased several boxes of 2 1/2” Shenk brand shells only to find they are way beyond safe in our vintage side by sides.

What exactly would cause them to be "way beyond safe"?

[Mike Koneski]

Let's just use 12g 2 3/4" as an example. If your barrels are good, whether they are Damascus, twist or fluid steel, there is no reason why you can't shoot 1 oz at 1200 FPS out of the gun. No reason at all except for possibly the shooter being "recoil sensitive". Most problems arise when shot charges get bumped to 1 1/8-1 1/4 and your velocity increases above that 1220 mark. Then you may cause damage to the old wood long before you see any problems with your barrels or action. In my 40 years of shooting and 20 years in the industry, I have only seen two shotguns blow up. One was due to a flaw in the steel, the other was contributed to a bore obstruction while using known low-pressure shells. I have seen many handguns blow up though. Most from high pressure from low powder charges.

[Mike Koneski]

How does 420 BAR translate into pressure as we understand it?

6,092 PSI

1 bar = 14.503789 psi

[Steve Parker]

A few of us had purchased the Shenk Shells. The perceived recoil on both the target and hunting loads were significantly more than what we recalled from RST loads. I had the loads tested independently and the shenk shells measured at beyond 12,500 psi.

[Rick Roemer]

What exactly would cause them to be "way beyond safe"?

Please refer to Steven's post. These shells are way above the advertised numbers. The felt recoil was the first indicator for many of us. They were tested independently and produced very high numbers. In my opinion, too high for any vintage gun. Especially the stocks. Just my two cents of course.

[CraigThompson]

Let's just use 12g 2 3/4" as an example. If your barrels are good, whether they are Damascus, twist or fluid steel, there is no reason why you can't shoot 1 oz at 1200 FPS out of the gun. No reason at all except for possibly the shooter being "recoil sensitive". Most problems arise when shot charges get bumped to 1 1/8-1 1/4 and your velocity increases above that 1220 mark. Then you may cause damage to the old wood long before you see any problems with your barrels or action. In my 40 years of shooting and 20 years in the industry, I have only seen two shotguns blow up. One was due to a flaw in the steel, the other was contributed to a bore obstruction while using known low-pressure shells. I have seen many handguns blow up though. Most from high pressure from low powder charges.

If my memory serves P.O.Ackley did an article in The American Rifleman back in the 50’s about Damascus vs Fluid Steel . He took four Parker’s two fluid steel and two Damascus . Started loading for them at what I assume would be RST level loads and worked his way up in velocity . All four made it past what would be considered a stout . And as he increased he split the fluid steel barrels and went further with the Damascus barrels I think if memory serves he stopped with the Damascus barrels because the frames had sprung or something like that . Now granted all four of the guns he used had mirror bores and a good many Damascus you run across now look rather rough in the bore . But it seems to me on an even playing field Damascus or twist oughtta hold their own against fluid steel . And by no means am I telling anyone to go out and shoot factory in their Damascus/twist barreled guns , but with a modicum of common sense you can most likely figure something out .

[Stan Hoover]

A few of us had purchased the Shenk Shells. The perceived recoil on both the target and hunting loads were significantly more than what we recalled from RST loads. I had the loads tested independently and the shenk shells measured at beyond 12,500 psi.

That’s worrisome, in shells that were advertised as being low pressure?

[John Nagel]

I also bought a few boxes of Gamebore 2.5” regal shells and the recoil was on a whole other planet from RST. I used them a few weeks ago hunting and they were so jarring that after firing 3-4 shells at birds I noticed I had a headache. I can shoot rst’s while hunting with no effects.

I am looking forward to trying the armusa shells as RST’s have gotten out of sight with shipping. Where are folks buying BPS from?

[randall rosenthal]

How does 420 BAR translate into pressure as we understand it?

6100 PSI

[Dan Steingraber]

If you're looking for a nice factory 12 gauge shell to shoot you will not be sorry for trying Competition One shells from B&P. They have a 1165 fps, 7/8 oz option that is wonderful to shoot and effective on targets and birds. Natchez has a free shipping special right now and they are usually under $10/box. I also shoot their 7/8 oz 20 gauge, 1200 fps shells in my Parkers and they are equally as effective.

[Mike Koneski]

Please refer to Steven's post. These shells are way above the advertised numbers. The felt recoil was the first indicator for many of us. They were tested independently and produced very high numbers. In my opinion, too high for any vintage gun. Especially the stocks. Just my two cents of course.

Steve replied to me after I asked about the pressures. 12,500 is definitely way to high. I wouldn't want to shoot them out of a modern gun let alone a vintage gun. :eek:

[Mike Koneski]

If my memory serves P.O.Ackley did an article in The American Rifleman back in the 50’s about Damascus vs Fluid Steel . He took four Parker’s two fluid steel and two Damascus . Started loading for them at what I assume would be RST level loads and worked his way up in velocity . All four made it past what would be considered a stout . And as he increased he split the fluid steel barrels and went further with the Damascus barrels I think if memory serves he stopped with the Damascus barrels because the frames had sprung or something like that . Now granted all four of the guns he used had mirror bores and a good many Damascus you run across now look rather rough in the bore . But it seems to me on an even playing field Damascus or twist oughtta hold their own against fluid steel . And by no means am I telling anyone to go out and shoot factory in their Damascus/twist barreled guns , but with a modicum of common sense you can most likely figure something out .

Double Gun Journal published a whole series of tests done on Damascus, twist and fluid steel on vintage guns. The test results showed that the old Damascus and twist barreled guns were very strong and held up to proof loads. The plus was those guns were not closet queens and were definitely used over the years. Sherman Bell did a whole series and I think a few other guys did some of their own tests.

[Rick Roemer]

Steve replied to me after I asked about the pressures. 12,500 is definitely way to high. I wouldn't want to shoot them out of a modern gun let alone a vintage gun. :eek:

Exactly my thoughts.

[Craig Larter]

I checked the RST web site and they are asking $25. per box for 12ga shells.

[Frank Srebro]

Just a few years back the shell loading gent at RST told me Alliant 20/28 was heavily used for its 20 and 28g loads. As many here know production of all Alliant shotgun powders had been curtailed earlier this year after a long period of limited production due in large part to increased military demands at the few powder production facilities. There are few good substitutes for Alliant 20/28 and they've been in short supply also. Is it any wonder RST production has been limited as compared with the days of truckload sales at the Southern SxS etc? I'm sure Morris and his staff are doing all they can to maintain some production and at the best pricing possible in these trying times. Will Alliant ever come back with its powders? Who knows, check your crystal ball.

[Andrew Sacco]

Three things:

As mentioned the BP shells are as promised as Steiner said, shoot great

RST uses Perfect Pattern in their 2.5" 12g shells but I don't know the load data

Fiocchi 1170fps 1 oz are digestible in about any 12g Parker regardless of chamber length, but that's just my opinion as I've shot about 10 flats of them. And they are available.

[Mike Koneski]

I really like B&P shells in 12 and 20g. Soft shooting and turn targets into diesel smoke. I shot some of the factory B&P 7/8 oz 1160 FPS today. They break targets and feel like you're shooting a 28g gun. Just sayin'.