Making of a Doubles Trap Gun

[John Davis]

WARNING: The following may be shocking and disturbing to some readers. Proceed with caution.

Parker Bros., CHE, Serial No. 231892, 12 gauge. Original 30 inch vent rib barrels, beavertail forearm and trap style comb. This gun has been modified specifically for Doubles Trap. The barrels have been re-choked specifically for competition, from Full/Full to .020/.030. The safety has been deleted. It has been converted from single trigger to double triggers. And the red Silvers style butt pad has been replaced with a black Kick-Ezz recoil pad.

Among other things, some may question the conversion to double triggers. Personally, I find that the double triggers are more reliable (fewer failures to fire on the second shot) and quicker for me to take the second shot. And yes, the Silvers pad was period correct, but minimizing recoil is so critical in Doubles Trap, particularly with the first shot.

[Bill Murphy]

John, you gotta do what you gotta do. When your gun gets sold at your estate sale, it will be described as a classic Pennsylvania trap gun, not original, but up to Pennsylvania standards. I have a more than small covey of Parker double traps, and will try to shoot them in the next few years. I even have an original DHE double trigger, vent rib trap, which you are welcome to shoot when you get up this way again. I kind of favor my AHE trap, which does not have a vent rib, unfortunately.

[John Davis]

Bill, hopefully there will be a few doubles trophies and buckles to go with it.

[CraigThompson]

John I think you have a valid point on the double vs single trigger thing . The VHE 32” vent rib trap I had was a single trigger gun . I had a couple instances shooting box birds where I was shooting and the second barrel failed to fire , but it was caused by me not releasing the trigger enough to reset before the second shot . I never had issue with the gun shooting doubles at skeet trap or sporting or Colombaire for that matter . But shooting boxbird quail I was trying to shoot the second barrel a heck of a lot quicker and not allowing it to reset .

[John Davis]

I’ve gone 50 straight in doubles a number of times, always with double triggers. Never with a single trigger.

[John Davis]

Correction, once with a single trigger.

[Reggie Bishop]

Very nice! Is this one new to you John?

[John Davis]

I’ve had it for a couple of years.

[Brian Hornacek]

Love it!

[John Davis]

Very nice! Is this one new to you John?

Reggie, I’ve had the gun for a couple of years but the final modifications have only just been made.

[Mike Franzen]

Is that the one you bought at the Southern a few years back? We all know a trap shooter’s gotta do what a trap shooter’s gotta do.

[John Davis]

That’s the one.

[John Davis]

At least I didn’t add wood to the stock.

[Bill Murphy]

I remember seeing you handling that gun at the Southern. If I didn't have a CHE trap, I would have been all over it.

[John Davis]

Harry, in my experience the Parkers hold up pretty well.

[Phil Yearout]

I don’t have a horse in this race, but I’ll say this: whatever John Davis says regarding trap guns, I ain’t gonna argue with him :)!

[Mike Koneski]

John, I'm with you on the double-triggers. I have single-trigger guns but I also prefer double-triggers. Less chances of misfires and naturally, no single-trigger issues. Your choice of chokes is a good one too. .20 and .30 work. I prefer anything from LM through F. LM/IM is a good combo. As for a recoil pad, you picked a good one. Doesn't matter if it's not original or period specific. For us "shooters", it's all about shootability.

[Stan Hillis]

I'll second LM/IM as a very good choke combination. I love that for late season doves, and sporting clays. If I'm shooting a single trigger gun I will usually leave it set to fire the IM barrel first to kill an incomer dove "a ways" out there, then have the LM barrel for a bit closer second shot. LM/IM worked very well in Argentina for me on sixteen different shoots.

[Frank Srebro]

John, a very nice sounding and looking Parker and I'm sure you'll shoot it well. Thanks for sharing your mods which sound just great to me. Your combo of 20 and 30 points of choke are my preferred duo.

Like others I prefer double triggers on hunting and competition guns but I have to say I've owned good LC Smiths with Hunter Ones, Foxes with the Kautzky trigger, Ithaca NID's with the Miller type, Parkers with the later single trigger, and Model 21's. And while I shoot extensively I never had a problem with any of them except for a heavier pull on some which cramp my style because I tend to be a trigger toucher. I make it a point to pull through with any single trigger vintage American double gun. Maybe I've been lucky on getting good uns but I do check for function and signs that someone's been inside a single trigger gun before buying it (trigger plate screw slot, etc). Best of course is to make a deal to buy a single trigger gun while at an event and contingent on testing with heavier ammo for doubling, balking etc. Of course many on-line sellers won't agree to that which is a red flag for me.

[CraigThompson]

John, a very nice sounding and looking Parker and I'm sure you'll shoot it well. Thanks for sharing your mods which sound just great to me. Your combo of 20 and 30 points of choke are my preferred duo.

Like others I prefer double triggers on hunting and competition guns but I have to say I've owned good LC Smiths with Hunter Ones, Foxes with the Kautzky trigger, Ithaca NID's with the Miller type, Parkers with the later single trigger, and Model 21's. And while I shoot extensively I never had a problem with any of them except for a heavier pull on some which cramp my style because I tend to be a trigger toucher. I make it a point to pull through with any single trigger vintage American double gun. Maybe I've been lucky on getting good uns but I do check for function and signs that someone's been inside a single trigger gun before buying it (trigger plate screw slot, etc). Best of course is to make a deal to buy a single trigger gun while at an event and contingent on testing with heavier ammo for doubling, balking etc. Of course many on-line sellers won't agree to that which is a red flag for me.

I had a pair of DH 12 32” live bird guns , both left the factory without safeties . Think I sold you the pg one and the other was a straight grip gun that had been totally redone and during all that the do gooder decided to lighten the trigger . I shot quite a few times with that gun before I got in front of the bird . I like light but this thing was to darn light .

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Gawd yes, get rid of all the single trigger guns. I just spent pushing $1000 to get a single back in working order. Never again!

[Bill Murphy]

Destry, I "feel" for you. Unfortunately, you probably had a gunsmith or gunsmiths who didn't know what they were doing. Our guns are too important to let someone experiment at fixing them.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Bill Murphy does that seem like something I'd do? I sent it to Dan May.

[John Davis]

Never met a single trigger mechanism I liked.

[Phil Yearout]

I shouldn’t comment since I’ve never owned or even shot a two-barreled gun with a single trigger. The idea never appealed to me: two barrels, two triggers. Just seems right :corn:

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Yes it was.

[Brian Dudley]

Single triggers on a double gun are the dumbest thing going. They are only for the folks who cannot go from shooting one trigger to two triggers, or for those who think bells and whistles mean something.

Most barrel selectors on single trigger guns are just plain unsafe and are never really utilized in the field or on the fly situations. There is no more reliable or quicker a barrel selector than just moving your finger back and forth to a different trigger.

[Mike Koneski]

Single triggers on a double gun are the dumbest thing going. They are only for the folks who cannot go from shooting one trigger to two triggers, or for those who think bells and whistles mean something.

Most barrel selectors on single trigger guns are just plain unsafe and are never really utilized in the field or on the fly situations. There is no more reliable or quicker a barrel selector than just moving your finger back and forth to a different trigger.

BINGO!! :clap:

[Stan Hoover]

Now I’m sure I have a sickness :banghead:

Well, I might as well enjoy it, just send me all of those awful single trigger doubles, I will put them to good use, and I promise I’ll take excellent care of them :)

I guess I only own 1 single trigger Parker, I think I’ve only had issues with one single trigger gun, that sporting a Kautsky

I’ve never had much trouble with my NID single triggers, never enough to make me hate them for sure

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Single triggers and beavertail forends are for guys who shot automatics till they were north of 50 and now wanna be double gun men.

[Mike Koneski]

I love BTFE on my guns. Rests nicely in my paw.

[Stan Hillis]

My preference is for double triggers on a field gun. But, to say that all single triggers are unreliable or unsafe is just wrong. Beretta, FAIR, Perazzi, Kreighoff and many, many others have single triggers that are just 100% reliable. No pigeon shooter would ever walk to the ring carrying a doublegun that was not reliable, yet close to 100% of them shoot single trigger guns at flyers.

I've shot high volume doves in Argentina twice and run nearly 10,000 rounds through that 687 SP II Sporting 20 ga. at a rate of one shell every 6.7 seconds for the three-hour long shoots we had. Never a failure with the trigger, or with the ejectors. Guns get hot and dirty during a shoot of that intensity, but never a hiccup from the Beretta.

There is no single trigger that I am aware of that will ever equal the double trigger's ability to choose choke instantly. THAT'S the big advantage of double triggers in the field, IMO. Not reliability.

Now the caveat. I'm referencing MODERN single triggers, not the Rube Goldberg contraptions so many vintage American doubles companies developed and sold. No comparison there, again IMO. Too many shooters who are only schooled in old school single triggers lump them in with modern ones, and that's very unfortunate because it's like comparing A.G. Bell's first trans-Atlantic phone call to today's cell phone communication quality.

[John Davis]

My objection to single triggers on double guns isn’t solely based on reliability. Although I have had my share of single trigger mechanical issues. My real objections are personal in nature. Often times my failure to fire on the second shot is a result of me not allowing the trigger to reset. And many of my second shot misses are the result of me hunting the back trigger which doesn’t exist. So these should be considered operator errors. But in a game where a single target can mean the difference between winning and losing, you got to go with what works for you. And it also doesn’t hurt that the double triggers freak everyone else out.

On another note, in a game like doubles trap, a beaver tail forearm is an absolute must.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I never understood the pigeon shooters obsession with single trigger guns.

P.S. I went to my first flyer shoot in years back last winter and half the guys were shooting automatics. I was shocked.

[Brian Dudley]

Yes, with todays modern double guns, single triggers certainly are the norm. And that has been the case for a long time with over/unders. Today the manufactures have standardized on the few designs that are truly reliable and have proven to perform well.

I have often wondered by more modern manufacturers do not offer both single and double triggers. They clearly figure that the majority of their customers want a Single trigger. Though making a gun with double triggers would be cheaper to make due to less parts needed. I can certainly see the benefit to offering only one design from an overall cost standpoint.

[Stan Hillis]

I don't think it's an obsession, Destry, so much as a result of the evolution of the sport.

I've never had the problem John described himself as having with the inability to switch from double triggers to single, and vice versa. I never have to give it a conscious thought. It just happens. Same thing with some double trigger devotees who say they get mixed up when they try to shoot the rear trigger first, then go to the front one. It just happens for me without any forethought or reminders.

We aren't all wired the same, thankfully. I have no problem with "diversity" when it comes to shotgun triggers. My only problem is with narrow minded shotgunners who vocally bash what they don't care for, and that is not directed at anyone in particular participating in this thread.

[John Dallas]

I grew up shooting 1100's and 870's so double triggers were (are) a mystery to me When Remington came out with the 3200, they put on the best single trigger barrel selector ever invented. The safety is on the trailing edge of the receiver, and the safe setting is in the middle. Pushing the safety to the left selects the bottom barrel for first shot. To the left selects the top barrel. Nothing better

[Stan Hoover]

I never understood the pigeon shooters obsession with single trigger guns.

P.S. I went to my first flyer shoot in years back last winter and half the guys were shooting automatics. I was shocked.

That would definitely not be the norm here in the Nort East Destry, I'm not sure that I've ever seen an automatic at any local flyer shoot.

Most are shooting mid level to very expensive o/u shotguns, with a few SXS's mixed in.

I believe my first SXS was an NID single trigger, but most of the guns I shoot currently have double triggers. I do not favor one over the other. Going from one to the other isn't a problem, but it did happen that I find myself feeling for the rear trigger when shooting a single trigger.

PS. My first gun was a pump gun, and No, I haven't reached 50 yet:nono:

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Stan,

This was over in Illinois, a state that hasn't hosted flyer shoots for many years. Perhaps most of the boys were new to the sport.

[CraigThompson]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Single triggers and beavertail forends are for guys who shot automatics till they were north of 50 and now wanna be double gun men.
I’d never shot Colombaire or box birds until about five years ago . And I’ve not seen anyone shooting anything but doubles be it SxS or O/U now bear in mind the place I shoot at the most doesn’t allow semi’s or pumps .

[CraigThompson]

My objection to single triggers on double guns isn’t solely based on reliability. Although I have had my share of single trigger mechanical issues. My real objections are personal in nature. Often times my failure to fire on the second shot is a result of me not allowing the trigger to reset. And many of my second shot misses are the result of me hunting the back trigger which doesn’t exist. So these should be considered operator errors. But in a game where a single target can mean the difference between winning and losing, you got to go with what works for you. And it also doesn’t hurt that the double triggers freak everyone else out.

On another note, in a game like doubles trap, a beaver tail forearm is an absolute must.

I had a VHE 20 with a factory original single trigger and a time or two I was trying to get my finger behind it . But the two VHE skeet guns I have at present and the VHE vent rib trap I had were all factory Parker singles and never found myself looking for the back trigger . Again the only time I had issue was shooting the vent rib trap at box bird quail and that was 100% me trying to shoot the second barrel to fast and not letting the trigger reset . Being 32 yards from the boxes and the back fence only 16 yards in front of the boxes makes me wanna shoot a heck of a lot quicker than I normally would . Again pairs at SC never caused this or doubles at skeet/trap or Colombaire birds , but again I never shoot that quick at those games .

[Bill Murphy]

I remember, a few years ago, at the shoot that Craig mentions, a top dog flyer shooter showed up, uncased his automatic and was told he couldn't shoot it. He was offered anyone's proper break open gun, refused the offer, and was promptly refunded his money. I had known this fellow for years, but he left so fast I couldn't even say "Hi".

[Frank Srebro]

Just yesterday I finished 300 shots over a few recent outings with a new to me VHE VR Double Trap gun with Parker Single Trigger that I got from a member friend last summer. I’d test fired only a few shots to check trigger and ejector reliability when we made that deal. Into the safe afterwards and then 4 weeks ago she moved up front as sporting clays started up hereabouts after the winter. I've shot everything from 7/8 ounce 1150 speed loads to 1-1/8 ounce factory Nitro 27's, and while switching barrels at just about every station. I wanted to thoroughly test the trigger before doing serious competitions this year. Net, I had zero double-fires or FTF the second barrel over those 300 shots. Its single trigger has crisp pulls, is fully reliable and a joy to have on quick simos with short shooting windows. No different than with my competition stack barrels.