Asking for opinions on a gun that is for sale on GI.

[David Livesay]

Good morning, everyone. There's a 16 ga. Parker for sale on Guns International that I have been looking at and would like to get some opinions on before I maybe try to buy it. Does the gun look original to you and if so, what questions should I ask the seller before trying to negotiate the best price? Thanks in advance for any advice you may have.
https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/shotguns/parker-shotguns/-quot-parker-bros-grade-dh-shotgun-16-gauge-al10113-quot-.cfm?gun_id=102833522

[Stephen Hodges]

I would like to know what the minimum wall thickness is of the barrels. If it is to thin to shoot you would have a wall hanger unless you could get them sleeved.

[Bob Jurewicz]

I like the gun. I don"t like the DAH.
Fair asking.
Bob Jurewicz

[Ken Descovich]

I've never had any luck trying to talk them down on there prices.

[Jerry Harlow]

Book shows it was 28" from Parker, but I question that the chokes may have been opened. A letter may tell you what it left the factory with as far as chokes. If opened, wall thickness is a critical point since going from modified or full to open chokes may explain dents? He doesn't tell you which choke is for which barrel so if it is reversed chokes with IC right and cylinder left, beware.

[Craig Larter]

I think it a very nice gun with a fair price. It has a three day inspection so bring it in and measure the walls chokes etc. If I was a 16ga guy I would be all over it as a hunting gun.

[Bill Murphy]

Only about one in a thousand gun sellers and maybe one in three hundred gunsmiths own a wall thickness gauge. So, you have to deal only with sellers who offer an inspection, and own your own wall thickness gauge. Same deal with a bore micrometer, except the number of these guys who own bore micrometers is about twice the wall thickness gauge ratio.

[Gerald McPherson]

Looks like a very honest gun to me. I like everything that I see.

[Daryl Corona]

Save Your Money. It has Damascus Barrels, Not Safe to Shoot.

Harry

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: :)

[Stan Hoover]

Save Your Money. It has Damascus Barrels, Not Safe to Shoot.

Harry

Harry,

yesterday I observed multiple guys using Damascus barreled guns, all seemed to be fine.

I used 3 different guns, Twist barrels, Stub twist barrels, and Parker Laminated barrels, all worked seamlessly when I pointed them correctly.

Oh, and may I add, they were attractive to look at, much more so than plain blued fluid steel barrels.

I don't feel you will be convincing many of the gentlemen reading your posts that Damascus barrels are dangerous:whistle:

[David Livesay]

Thanks for all the comments. I too like the gun, seems like mostly original finishes. I have bought several guns off Gun Broker and Guns International
but most sellers will not fully refund your $ if you have to return a gun. I will message the seller with some of the suggested questions. If he answers I will post his answers here. Thanks

[edgarspencer]

Book shows it was 28" from Parker, but I question that the chokes may have been opened. A letter may tell you what it left the factory with as far as chokes. If opened, wall thickness is a critical point since going from modified or full to open chokes may explain dents? He doesn't tell you which choke is for which barrel so if it is reversed chokes with IC right and cylinder left, beware.

Jerry, That was the first thing I thought also

[Bob Brown]

The top and bottom views show a bit of a spread of the head of the stock compared to the width of the action. I'd take the stock off first thing and check for cracks or repairs in the head before I shot it.

[Bob Jurewicz]

That stock looks fine to me. Look at the area on each side of the upper tang. It's tight.
Bob Jurewicz

[Stan Hillis]

The top and bottom views show a bit of a spread of the head of the stock compared to the width of the action. I'd take the stock off first thing and check for cracks or repairs in the head before I shot it.

The wood's just a bit proud to the action. Just shows it's likely never been sanded down and refinished. Looks tight to me.

[Frank Srebro]

I always get a bit edgy when a vintage gun is advertised with 2-7/8" drop because some sellers will "round down" the drop at heel to something less if the actual drop is 3” or more. That’s to make the gun more marketable. Then when called on it if an inspection period was offered the seller fella will often ask if my measurement bar is dead straight, if I know what I'm doing, or he laughs it off as an insignificant measurement error, no big deal. Blah, blah. Net, hard to get him to take the gun back. IME a drop of 3" or more is a big detriment when trying to resell to most potential buyers, if and when.

I'm not saying that's the case with this subject Parker, but just sayin. If Dave the OP is really interested I suggest he ask the seller to remeasure and confirm the drop at heel before going ahead with the deal.

[David Livesay]

I have asked the seller several questions and have yet to get any answers. Referring to the last comment, is 3 inches of drop something that would make the gun hard to shoot?

[Frank Srebro]

IME most shooters of today are looking for so-called "modern dimensions" of about 2-1/2" - plus/minus about 1/4" depending on their shooting style. Go to most any vintage SxS shoot and you'll see many gents with comb raisers that stretch on, tape on, lace on, etc. That's because for many people who properly cheek the stock a 3" or more stock drop will result in the gun shooting lower than flat and you can't properly see the bird or clay above the barrels. On the other hand there are gents who can shoot a low combed gun OK but from what I've seen they're in the great minority.

[Brian Dudley]

A really nice honest original gun. No concerns from that standpoint. The stock dimensions would be a killer for many if it were to be a shooter.

[Jerry Harlow]

I have asked the seller several questions and have yet to get any answers. Referring to the last comment, is 3 inches of drop something that would make the gun hard to shoot?

I would say it depends on how tall you are and other physical factors; 5'8" probably yes, 6'4" probably no. If you have a gun that fits well now and you also shoot well, measure that gun.

[David Livesay]

Still no answers from the seller.

[Victor Wasylyna]

Oh no! It’s [[Reefer]] Damascus Madness!

-Victor

[David C Porter]

If the seller won't answer your questions I'd move on. More than likely if the gun shows up & isn't as advertised, you'll probably have a hard time getting your money back. Besides, why bother with a gun that probably won't fit. Buy one that does fit.

[David Livesay]

If the seller won't answer your questions I'd move on. More than likely if the gun shows up & isn't as advertised, you'll probably have a hard time getting your money back. Besides, why bother with a gun that probably won't fit. Buy one that does fit.

Yeah , I'm over it. I doubt they would answer me if I didn't like it.

[Bill Murphy]

I want to see the picture that Harry mentions.

[Brian Dudley]

I have to have personally seen way more blown out fluid steel barrels than damascus. Bu a lot! Maybe we can try to propagate another lie to sell new guns, like how Fluid steel barrels over 50 years old have expired and are at risk of failure.

[Daryl Corona]

I have to have personally seen way more blown out fluid steel barrels than damascus. Bu a lot! Maybe we can try to propagate another lie to sell new guns, like how Fluid steel barrels over 50 years old have expired and are at risk of failure.

You stole my thunder Brian. I've seen K80's, Brownings, 870's and a M12 barrel ruptures all do to operator error. With all due respect my friend Harry keep up with the warnings about Damascus barrels. It will drive the price down to where you might just buy one for testing.:):)

[edgarspencer]

If the seller won't answer your questions I'd move on. More than likely if the gun shows up & isn't as advertised, you'll probably have a hard time getting your money back. Besides, why bother with a gun that probably won't fit. Buy one that does fit.

Collectors Firearms has been around a long time, and is a first rate company. I suspect Mike is away at the annual 4 day Colt Collectors Association meeting.
Try the telephone. They still work.

[CraigThompson]

I have to have personally seen way more blown out fluid steel barrels than damascus. Bu a lot! Maybe we can try to propagate another lie to sell new guns, like how Fluid steel barrels over 50 years old have expired and are at risk of failure.

Ah yes the old barrel fatigue syndrome :rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf:

[David Livesay]

[QUOTE=edgarspencer;417802]Collectors Firearms has been around a long time, and is a first rate company. I suspect Mike is away at the annual 4 day Colt Collectors Association meeting.


They did send me a message today answering my main question. Barrel wall thickness on left barrel form .022-.030, right .028-.033
They also sent a couple pictures that I asked for.
What is the minimum wall thickness that is considered safe to shoot? (Low pressure shells, of course)

[Mike Koneski]

Save Your Money. It has Damascus Barrels, Not Safe to Shoot.

Harry

That's just ignorant. We shoot Damascus barreled guns all the time with modern target loads. You'll have more issues with damaging an old stock than you will damaging any barrels. :nono:

[Mark Britton]

Tennessee Dave if you are who I think you are ? Why not ask your son ? He's the only one that I know of that can out s

[Mark Britton]

Shoot all of us here LOL

[David Livesay]

Tennessee Dave if you are who I think you are ? Why not ask your son ? He's the only one that I know of that can out s

You must be thinking of someone else, as I do not have a son.

[edgarspencer]

What is the minimum wall thickness that is considered safe to shoot? (Low pressure shells, of course)

Many will say .025" is the minimum for Damascus if you are uncertain about the load. Personally, I am not concerned if it's over .020" because I know my loads.

[Craig Larter]

I would not hesitate buying a Parker small bore min wall of .022, many are in that range. But as Edgar said, I keep the recoil and pressure low in all my vintage SxS's.

[Mike Koneski]

You stole my thunder Brian. I've seen K80's, Brownings, 870's and a M12 barrel ruptures all do to operator error. With all due respect my friend Harry keep up with the warnings about Damascus barrels. It will drive the price down to where you might just buy one for testing.:):)

Harry doesn't shoot them none-the-less test them.

[Mike Koneski]

I have to have personally seen way more blown out fluid steel barrels than damascus. Bu a lot! Maybe we can try to propagate another lie to sell new guns, like how Fluid steel barrels over 50 years old have expired and are at risk of failure.

WOW!!! Almost spit out my coffee!! Expired fluid steel barrels!! I love it!! You are on a roll Brian, keep them coming. :rotf::rotf: