interesting pachmayr AIS

[bob kuczynski]

i know a lot of you talked to me about my mystery parker A1S over the years. i have it running on my club forum here....

https://www.americantrapshooter.com/threads/fs-1940-meriden-parker-12ga-upgrade-a1s-gold-inlays-26-vr-ic-mod.26305/

you may have to join the website to see it.
i got 28 pics. may be worth a visit.
disregard the price that is listed on it. i had to do that to discourage anyone from buying it while its being viewed and discussed. and too...that forum does not allow por or best offer.
if anyone knows a point of contact at the parker collectors assoc who can run a serial number and help nail it down to who it was made for, lmk.
thanks.

[Bill Murphy]

240,497 was made as a DHE grade, 26", vent rib, ejector, single trigger gun. Only a PGCA letter could give any more information. It is not likely to give you the original owner's name, but it is a slight possibility. Whether the letter gives you any additional information does not mean that a gun like this shouldn't have a letter to go with it.

[Brian Dudley]

It seemed to me that any previous interest in your pachmayr upgrade was self-generated.

If you want people to see your gun, post photos here.
If you want to sell your gun, become a member and post it in the for sale section.
If you want a letter on your gun, order one from the association.

[bob kuczynski]

thanks b. dudley for the very kind, welcome, and friendly invite.

so bill,
it started life as a DHE sst, vr, ejt 26" bbl gun.
good to know.
so...now its a matter of nailing down if it went to pachmayr or if it was factory.
whats your gut instinct tell you?
would a pgca letter tell what grade it started life as?

--------------
mr dudley,....ive been gone for some time now caring and burying parents.
my conversations are years old.
and too....there was a period when your website would not load on my old computer. it cut me off from any conversations, so i gave up.
now that my wife has a new dsl service in the house, i can access this site.
i could very easily repeat all that was posted elsewhere on my link if there was interest.
would you like that?
are you the point of contact to order a letter?
being youre a lifetime member, im sure you hold the answers.
or are letters only given to members?
that doesnt sound right if it is.
im sure many owners/dealers would like a letter without being on a membership list.
can you help?

[Garry L Gordon]

Hey, Bob,

If you check out the home page there is a link on the left for research letters. It gives you step-by-step directions, and you can even use PayPal and do it all online (and, of course, you can print the forms out and mail them in with a check).

As you probably know, if you are a member, you get a very good discount on the research letters, and, as mentioned, you can post your gun for sale to other members for free.

Good luck with your gun!

[bob kuczynski]

thank you very much.
mobird...if you find yourself down around vanzant in s.central in oct, stop in and shoot with us. click my avatar link and read up!

btw, if anyone sees these names on any parker records, it may help nail down who commisioned its work:

the maryland governors of that time frame would be as follows:
1920-1935 Albert C. Ritchie
1935-1939 Harry W. Nice
1939-1947 Herbert R. O'Conor
1947-1951 William Preston Lane, Jr.
1951-1959 Theodore R. McKeldin

[Garry L Gordon]

Thanks for the invitation! We spend most of October in MN chasing grouse, but it sounds like a great time. Vanzant is about as far from us (near the Iowa border) as is possible to get and still be in the Show-Me State, but, hey, there's trout fishing nearby so, ya never know.

Good luck with your shoot.

[bob kuczynski]

wife and i indulge quite often at rockbridge trout ranch.
my range is 30 minutes from them, just south of mt grove.
north fork white river...best trout in the state.

btw...how close are you to marne iowa?

[bob kuczynski]

another issue that stopped me in my tracks here was dial up. i couldnt post pics.
i see now its all different.
good to see 'some' friendly people still hang out here.

[Bill Murphy]

Bob, I neglected to tell you that your gun started life as a DHE. By the way, Allen Wampler was part of the DC, Northern Virginia area collector gun Mafia, not in the Parker subset. I knew him well, lost touch, don't know if he is still with us.

[Bill Murphy]

Bob, PGCA membership gives you lower priced letters, enough lower to almost pay for your membership. Membership gives you access to an expanded forum as well as permission to offer items for sale, including guns.

[bob kuczynski]

very valuable info. again. much appreciated.
wonder why he was sitting on the parker table selling parkers? we will never know.
seems like just yesterday.

check your pm's.

[bob kuczynski]

collector gun mafia. lol.

[Brian Dudley]

All the answers you seek regarding letters are on the association homepage.

[bob kuczynski]

bill beat you to it. thanks.

[bob kuczynski]

ok, i got a request in for a letter.
in the meantime, the seller back in 1992 told me this gun was 1940.
i have another collector saying remington moved parker to ny in 1938.
my gun says....parker BROS on the receiver, not just parker. he says they didnt have rights to the bros. name.
does anyone have access to the dom for 240497?

[Garry L Gordon]

ok, i got a request in for a letter.
in the meantime, the seller back in 1992 told me this gun was 1940.
i have another collector saying remington moved parker to ny in 1938.
my gun says....parker BROS on the receiver, not just parker. he says they didnt have rights to the bros. name.
does anyone have access to the dom for 240497?

Website says 1934.

[bob kuczynski]

interesting. thanks.
i got my dates wrong.
he told me it was one of the last parker guns, 1934.
all this time i thought he said 1940.
i made the correction.
1934 firms up his claim as it being one of the last meriden guns.

[bob kuczynski]

how would i know if the 'runge family' engraved this?
any particular place they signed their guns?

[David C Porter]

Richard Boucher engraved most of the Pachmayr Parker upgrades. He lived in Torrance, Calif. He's long been deceased.

[bob kuczynski]

any particular place he signed the gun?

[Bill Murphy]

Your gun does not resemble a Runge gun.

[David C Porter]

A Pachmayr upgrade typically wouldn't have the engraver sign. This is also typical of Winchester factory engraved guns.

[bob kuczynski]

thats what i thought.
what does this one resemble as far as style?

[David C Porter]

I logged in to your link, but all I get is error. Here's a link to a Pachmayr A1S to compare style: https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/shotguns/parker-shotguns/superb-20ga-pachmayr-a-1-special-upgrade---great-collection-provenance-with-hang-tag-and-near-mint-.cfm?gun_id=101855542. It's hard to tell from your pictures the egraving style or quality, but fair price is probably in the $20's if you're lucky.

[bob kuczynski]

thats what i was figuring too..... if it didnt have gold.
you probably figured it out that the gun we are trying to figure out is my avatar.

[bob kuczynski]

lets see if i can get the pics here...........

[Bill Murphy]

It's a nice gun, much more conservative than some Pachmayr guns. Still an upgrade and the previous poster hit the value on the head.

[bob kuczynski]

with gold?

[David C Porter]

Looking at your newly posted pictures I doubt that it's a Pachmayr Parker, unless you have documents of proof. I've seen quite a few & your engraving is not the same. Also, Pachmayr used stockmaker Engilbert Olafsson who was an excellent stockmaker. I knew him well & learned my stockmaking from him. Your stock was not made by Engilbert. There are lots of upgrades made by many engravers & stockmakers. Unless you have the original bills for the work you'll probably never know who did the work.

[Brian Dudley]

There is a stamping down inside the frame that is not on factory parkers. That may be some sort of mark by who created the gun.

[bob kuczynski]

thus, the mystery continues.
im thinking that mark 'down in there' was a disassembly mark, as not to lose parts when laid out on the table to be polished and jeweled?

[bob kuczynski]

boy its good to have the ability to post pics.
mr. d'......is this one factory?

[bob kuczynski]

if we all look at the link dave porter posted showing a 20ga pachmayr comparison, you will see the same (numbers down inside the) frame that b. dudley says arent factory markings.
but........its the same as my gun.

mine has to be a pachmayr gun. its marked with the same fond and location as that 20ga.

[Brian Dudley]

I am not talking about the serial numbers on the cocking slide. I said on the frame.

It is in this area where Doug Turnbull used to mark frames that he restored. A long time ago. That was a definitive DT stamping. This one is not very clear as to what it is.


128027

[bob kuczynski]

and so did i.

[bob kuczynski]

compare the numbers down inside...........

[Dean Romig]

Looks like AW to me…





.

[GunnerGrilli]

Anyway we can get better pics of the engraving?


I don't believe this was done by Pachmayr. I have seen quite a few Pachmayr Parkers, and own, and have owned a few.



Bobby

[David C Porter]

If you have paper work like this, then you can claim it's a Pachmayr. If not, then it's simply an upgrade.

[bob kuczynski]

do they still do this on request? do they have records that far back?
small world. my 28ga m12 skeet is within 300 numbers of yours.

[bob kuczynski]

i spoke with an old friend of mine who use to have shop in ct, morris hallowell; and, he suggested it could be one of alvin whites (AW) engravings of colt fame. he says he may have done it free lance and not employed by anyone. again, we are still just guessing. can anyone tell me about alvins style? any similarities?

[David C Porter]

I seriously doubt Alvin White engraved your gun. Your A1S engraving is not up to his level of engraving. I seriously doubt the AW mark inside the frame is an engravers mark. They usally sign on the side, bottom, or trigger plate. Alvin White usally signed: Eng. A. A. WHITE. If you google him you can see his style on shotguns.

[bob kuczynski]

thank you. just peeling back the leaves of the onion, hope to solve the mystery one layer at a time.
i dont have all the answers to this gun...im just looking for them.
with your help i may achieve it.

[bob kuczynski]

pachmayr doesnt answer my messages on their website.
do you know if they still have archives for their old business?

[bob kuczynski]

using the pics i provided of the bbls, is there any way to determine if they are titanic or acme bbls by the numbers and letters?

[Bill Murphy]

Your picture of the area of the barrel flat that would tell that tale was taken in a dark closet. Give us more light.

[David C Porter]

There's a "T" on the bottom of the barrel flat. Stands for Titanic. Also your picture of the top of the rib Parker writing (picture dark & hard to see) should state Titanic Steel. Take a look at it!

[bob kuczynski]

i will look.

[bob kuczynski]

if i could i would. sorry bill. camera is old.

[bob kuczynski]

big capital T as plain as day. thanks david.

[Bill Murphy]

Nothing on the rib? Usually no rib marking on Remington guns.

[David C Porter]

On his American Trap Shooters listing there's a picture of the vent rib PARKER ENGRAVING, but the end of the engraving is blurred & dark. He just needs to look & read it

[bob kuczynski]

sounds easy, but im traveling.
will look asap.
ok, so what we are trying to determine is if both rib and bbls are marked the same.
if not.....? i assume it means a different (spare) rib was installed on a titanic bbl during the frankenparker upgrade?

[bob kuczynski]

ok.....its PEERLESS.

[David C Porter]

Show a close up photo of the barrel inscription. The old marking may have been laser welded & remarked. Turnbull has the dies to do this. Or it may have been crudely removed & re engraved.

[bob kuczynski]

im trying to get close but my camera only is in focus 6" away. im trying different zoom methods.
so far...this is what i have.

[David C Porter]

I'm under the impression that the vent rib PARKER inscriptions were hand engraved. Yours looks roll stamped. Let's see if Brian Dudley or others will chime in with their comments on this.

[bob kuczynski]

if its rolled, knowing who has/had the ability to do that could steer the investigation towards who did the whole gun.

[Reggie Bishop]

Vent rib guns have hand engraved barrel inscriptions.

[bob kuczynski]

yes, we know that. practically everything on a parker is done by hand, thus its appeal to many.
we are trying to determine if THIS rib is done by hand or rolled. its suspect because the bbls are titanic and the markings say peerless on the rib.

[David C Porter]

Here's an example of a Pachmayr Parker. The engraving looks like Gino Cargnel's work. He did many guns for Pachmayr.
https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/shotguns/parker-shotguns/parker-bros--invincible-custom-12-ga-32--im-f.cfm?gun_id=102804813



On both guns note the quality of the engraving & stock work & checkering that's typical of Pachmayr Gun upgrades.

[Bill Murphy]

I can't make the link to the NRA gun to work, but the first gun has an unmodified original rib marking, not a remarked rib inscription.

[David C Porter]

Attached are the NRA photos of a Pachmayr Parker.

[bob kuczynski]

pachmayr does not return emails or website messages. im still waiting on them to run the serial number of mine.

[bob kuczynski]

?
https://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=42727

[bob kuczynski]

ok, check cleared.