Winchester Low Recoil Shells

[Jay Oliver]

I tried some shells today that have been on my list for a while. I was thinking, these low recoil 7/8oz at 980fps would be similar in velocity to shooting black powder. And let me practice and get a little better at my black powder shooting.

I was pleasantly surprised as I was breaking targets near and far with this 1 frame TA 12 gauge. I was very impressed, so much so that I ordered a few cases.

This was my experience, I am not recommending this for everyone. I was using a gun that is in good mechanical condition. These shells were not stressing the gun at all.

[john pulis]

I think 7/8s is close to 24 grams, a pellet or three or so, if I remember correctly. Did you load the brass to 26?

[Arthur Shaffer]

Keep in mind that essentially all modern ammo is loaded close to the same pressure specs in order for the many autoloader users to shoot them. While the stress on the gun due to mechanical load is small, the pressures are likely right up there with other heavier loads. That has been true for all the other mild loads I have seen tested. They are probably well over any black powder load in pressure.

[Jay Oliver]

My mistake, these are more like 15/16oz. I was just going by what MidwayUSA had listed on their website.

It is printed on the bottom of the box that they won't cycle semi-autos. My black powder shells are 1oz, with 2 3/4 drams of 2f Swiss.

I was was sharing my experience as these seem to be a good alternative to RST(while their inventory is down) and I felt the velocity was closer to Black Powder. And may be closer to what these guns shot when new.

[Jim McKee]

I have used several flats of these Winchester factory loads.
They break clays and are easy on my shoulder.

[Chris Riley]

I posted a question on the Winchester website for this shotshell and asked what the pressure is. I will relay the response. It’s possible my question would go from Winchester Sales to Hodgdon, and if this shotshell has a proprietary powder, not available for sale, Hodgdon might not have any pressure data.

[Jay Oliver]

Thanks Chris! It would be good to know.

[Bob Brown]

I've used these for years, even with 2 1/2" chambers. Great shells. Here is a link to a thread on the Double Gun bb that should help. Check out the fourth post.
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=648153&page=1

[Harold Lee Pickens]

I believe those loads used Win AA LITE powder which is no longer available. I picked up 4 1 lb bottles at a gun shop that was closing. Love the stuff, makes great 7/8 oz loads with little recoil. Have only 1 bottle of it left, will be sad when it's gone.

[Drew Hause]

Independent testing shortly after that load was introduced showed it to run 6,200 psi
Things do change

[John Davis]

I’ve considered using these for the first shot in doubles trap.

[Frank Srebro]

Just my perspective, I load any/all 12g clays shells to 1150-70 speed. That can be done at relatively low pressures. If I go under that speed range I can see a perceptible delay as the pellets get out to mid and to longer range clays; and inversely, those time delays increase as the speed decreases. And with lesser speed shells I have to increase the lead (forward allowance) on crossers and wide quartering birds. I suppose the low speed shells are OK if that's all you shoot; your subconscious will adjust accordingly. But that can lead to a mind game when shooting faster loads for longish targets or heavier loads for humane hunting. Again, this is just my take on low speed 12g shells.

[Ed Blake]

I spoke to a Winchester rep on their helpline, probably 20 years ago, when they had a helpline with a real live person helping the customer. I was told then that these shells run about 8,500 psi.

[Drew Hause]

Ed: Are you sure that wasn't the Xtra-Lite load?

The old Winchester Reloader’s Manual, 15th Edition
https://www.appuntidiricarica.com/pluginAppObj_120_24/Winchester-Reloaders-Manual-.pdf
Lists the 12g AA Xtra-Lite 1 oz. at 1180 fps - 7,300 & 7,400 psi

Independent testing of Old AACF Xtra-Lite 1 oz. WAAL12 was 8000 psi
The new AAHS Xtra-Lite Target 1 oz. AAL12 was 8,760

[Chris Riley]

Attached is a pdf of the WAALite load data from the Hodgdn website. I believe it contains the load data Harold circulated. At the end of the day, it would be great if Winchester could provide definitive pressure for the low recoil low noise shotshell now being sold.

[Ed Blake]

Drew I’m pretty sure it was the Low recoil, Low noise AAs. It’s been a long time but it was a Board discussion similar to this. I stopped using them because there wasn’t enough bang for the buck, so to speak. I thought they were anemic.

[Jay Oliver]

Thanks for posting Chris, it looks like for the loads at 970fps the preasure is low enough. One of the reasons, I made this post is that I was surprised how well I shot with these and they are readily available. They were fun to shoot and were easy on the gun.

They shot better that I would have thought given the velocity. In my opinion a good possible option for the non-reloader.

[Chris Riley]

The following are the question posed to Winchester Customer Support and the answer received:

“Question: Concerning your Winchester AA low recoil low noise target load shotshell with the 26 gram load of #8 lead shot and a velocity of 980 fps, can you kindly provide the pressure for this load? Thanks very much!”


“Answer: The information you requested is considered proprietary information and is not published, sorry for the inconvenience.”

From this response, one must reasonably conclude that the powder in the AA LR/LN Target Load shotshell is not WAALite because the WAALite load data has been published, is in the public domain, and is not proprietary. Thus, the WAALite data would not apply to the 980 fps AA shells in question.

[Jim McKee]

I talked with Tom Armbrust today about the PSI of the current Winchester AA Low Recoil, Low Noise 26 gram # 8 shot factory loads (AA12FL8).
He is not aware of any PSI change but has not tested them recently.
So I will be sending him 5 rounds to test hopefully next week.
I will post his findings.

[Jim McKee]

Looking back over the PGCA forum information posted about Chamber Pressures:
8-31-2016 Chamber Pressures by Bruce Day
3-11-2014 Chamber Pressures for 12 gauge VH
12-23-2009 Parkers and Pressures?

this provides some interesting reading

[Jim McKee]

Sent 5 rounds from the newly received box of Winchester Low Recoil, Low noise ammo to Tom Armbrust.
He returned the attached test report.
The PSI is still low even if Winchester is using a different powder

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Good info Jim, thanks. I usually load 7/8 oz around 1100 fps.

[Chuck Bishop]

I wonder how those very low pressure shells will work in the cold winter? Better keep the shells insulated from the cold temps.

[Drew Hause]

Poorly in my experience Chuck.

[Chris Robenalt]

I've loaded Win Light for ten years plus using the same factory load. I load 3/4, 7/8, and 1ounce loads, but mostly 3/4 ounce which feels like I'm shooting a .410 load. I shoot it in all 12 gauge guns, even lifters and top lever hammers. The load hits hard. The numbers I penciled in the chart are bushings, not powder weight.

[Daryl Corona]

I've loaded Win Light for ten years plus using the same factory load. I load 3/4, 7/8, and 1ounce loads, but mostly 3/4 ounce which feels like I'm shooting a .410 load. I shoot it in all 12 gauge guns, even lifters and top lever hammers. The load hits hard. The numbers I penciled in the chart are bushings, not powder weight.

3/4 oz. loads are all I shoot in my 12, 20 and of course 28ga. guns. Never found a target that I couldn't break or a bird I couldn't bag as long as I did my part. You just have to develop confidence in them.

[Chris Robenalt]

That true enough Daryl, confidence is key. I'll load 8 and 9 shot in 3/4 ounce all day and believe in that load. It's an effective load that won't destroy a bird or it's meat. The bonus is it won't hammer the shoulder.

[Daryl Corona]

That true enough Daryl, confidence is key. I'll load 8 and 9 shot in 3/4 ounce all day and believe in that load. It's an effective load that won't destroy a bird or it's meat. The bonus is it won't hammer the shoulder.

I just load nothing but 7.5's. Trying to keep it simple and using nothing more open than a Mod. choke seems to work for me. Plus, my two main target guns seem to prefer that shot size and you don't get beat up when shooting 100+ targets.

[Jay Oliver]

Thanks Chris, for getting these tested. As I was hoping these are a nice "off the shelf alternative" to reloading and RST(when they are out of stock) for clay shooting. I think you can only get them in #8s, which is unfortunate.

I do reload, but more for hunting/specialty loads and not volume.

[Stan Hillis]

I don't like 9s for anything over about 20 yards, especially not for doves or quail. Too many 9s remain in the bird, not having enough oomph to pass clear through. I hate biting into a pellet.

There's a noticeable difference with 8s and 7 1/2s, they seldom remain in the bird, in my experience.

[Jay Oliver]

I shooting some sporting clays yesterday and was once again impressed by these shells. Hit a few I think I had a chance at. I just like that these are an option for all of us...