perfect pattern powder usage

[matt koepnick]

Hello all. I have been searching for a good cheap substitute for my Titewad loads. Wound up getting an 8-pounder of Perfect Pattern (Hogdon) last weekend from LGS. Had earlier researched some loads with with this powder for my needs, and components I have. It's an avail powder so I bought it.
Loaded up 2 boxes of 7/8 oz at 7k psi , 1200 fps (advertised numbers).
I used Hogdon load data: 14.8 Gr PerfectPattern, CB 0175-12 wads, Win 209, and GunClub hulls. Loaded and crimped nicely.
When shooting them Sun at the club it seemed I felt a little more recoil than my Titewad 7/8 oz ones. Both loads list the same speeds. The big surprise was looking down my bores after shooting all 50 shells. Both bores and chambers were pretty spotless, and were actually shiny like just cleaned too. ..
Perfect Pattern shells shot with the same results as normal and I scored 70 percent as norm. With current pricing (switching to Cheddite 209) I can load these at 6.41 a box so it looks like this powder is ok as backup for when my Titewad is gone. Mattly

[Mike Koneski]

If the Perfect Pattern shells felt a bit snotty, back off one bushing with your powder and try that.

[Pete Lester]

I have gone through about a pound of it recently. It's a very fine grain powder and I thought there would be some leakage on a MEC single stage. With the MEC brass washer under the rubber grommet and the powder bottle screwed on very tight I haven't experienced much leakage at all. For 7/8 12ga loads the Claybuster grey wad gives good crimps in the Winchester AAHS hull. In the older AA Compression Formed hulls I have to use the Claybuster 3/4 ounce wad for a proper crimp. I am using a #16 MEC bushing and it's throwing 14.7 grains of PP.

[matt koepnick]

Thanks J.B. I'm using same bushing with basic same weigh in. I also had no leakage issues, even with bottle just snugged so as to allow bar to travel more easily. My next trial batch was going to be with those gray wads also as I love my titewad loads with them. Thanks for the input. Mattly.

[Pete Lester]

At the present time all powder is quite scarce, Perfect Pattern is probably the most widely available but usually I find only one pound bottles when I see it. It is proving to be a good powder for light 12ga loads and when velocity is kept to 1200 fps or less it gives low pressure. It's also quite a bit less expensive than the old favorites of mine from Alliant, and who knows if Alliant will ever resume production.

[Frank Srebro]

Many of my regular shooting friends (modern guns) have gone to Hodgdon's Perfect Pattern and High Gun powders for 7/8 and 1-ounce loads respectively in 2-3/4”/12-gauge They're loading to 1200-1250 speed but it's easy to drop a powder bushing number - or two or three - for increasingly lower velocity/recoil loads. Stack height is a consideration with both low volume and high energy powders, and an expedient as Pete mentioned is to use a wad made for a lighter payload, i.e., 3/4 ounce wad for 7/8 ounce load, etc. Alternately a shot cup filler can be used but that's one more step to complicate things while frequent shooters are loading in volume and especially so on a MEC progressive press.

Perfect Pattern and High Gun are more readily available and it seems that the old standbys like Red Dot, 700-X, Clays, Clay Dot, American Select, etc are far on the way out. I suspect Hodgdon is simplifying its distribution/sales by contracting for fewer shotgun powders; and it remains to be seen if Alliant will ever get back in gear insofar as shotgun powders. What a sad chapter for its forerunner Hercules that many of us grew up with.

[Mike Koneski]

Well, now you guys have done it, I might have to work up some 8g loads and send them to Tom for testing. :cool:

It's burn rate is right there with E3 and Nitro 100 NF so it should be a viable powder for the big gun.

[Rob Lewis]

Stack height is the issue with Perfect Pattern. It is a fast burning, very dense powder, so is really best suited for compression formed hulls. 7/8 load data is available on the Hodgdon website, but there is a general paucity of load data. There was mention of using a 3/4 oz wad for 7/8 shot loads. That suggestion was to deal with stack height. Stack height with perfect pattern is the biggest issue, when I say that, I mean because it is so extremely dense. All powder swapping takes some work to get crimps right though, it's just harder with PP.

It would not be my first choice for the short 10, I think. I use the 1 oz Clays load (10 ga) Sherman Bell initially developed, but that bottle is very light these days, and will be out soon. I replaced Clays with Ramshot Competition last year because that was availalbe everywhere. It worked great as a replacment, but there are no 4 or 8 lbers to be had. I'm looking at WSF or WST right now, but have not tried them, I do believe that Competion, WSF, WST and other flattened ball powders are all made by St Mark?

I had heard the shotshell powder shortage was due to the current production of similar powders (or powders on the same equipment) that are used in ordinance, which, due to the wars, is now in production? Can anyone comment on this?

I load 12 ga, 2.5" fiber shells on a modified PW 950. I did this during covid as the normal supplies of english shells dried completely up, then came back at over the top prices. (I also have a LS1000 that I converted to 2 7/8.)

If anyone is loading 2.5" fiber I'd love to compare notes.

[Paul Ehlers]

I have gone through about a pound of it recently. It's a very fine grain powder and I thought there would be some leakage on a MEC single stage. With the MEC brass washer under the rubber grommet and the powder bottle screwed on very tight I haven't experienced much leakage at all. For 7/8 12ga loads the Claybuster grey wad gives good crimps in the Winchester AAHS hull. In the older AA Compression Formed hulls I have to use the Claybuster 3/4 ounce wad for a proper crimp. I am using a #16 MEC bushing and it's throwing 14.7 grains of PP.

Thanks for the information on the bushing you're using. I recently bought an 8 pounder of perfect pattern and plan on switching over to it, but then I ran into an issue where I couldn't find a bushing chart for it.

I really appreciate you posting the bushing size and now I have a starting point.

Does anyone have a bushing chart for perfect pattern?

[Pete Lester]

Thanks for the information on the bushing you're using. I recently bought an 8 pounder of perfect pattern and plan on switching over to it, but then I ran into an issue where I couldn't find a bushing chart for it.

I really appreciate you posting the bushing size and now I have a starting point.

Does anyone have a bushing chart for perfect pattern?

Perfect Pattern has been listed on the official MEC Bushing Chart for awhile, you can find it here:

https://www.mecoutdoors.com/Images/document/powder-bushing-chart.pdf

As always trust your scale rather than the bushing chart. Two bushings of the same size can throw different amounts of powder.

Since my post I found that PP is a dirty powder, it doesn't leave flakes of unburnt powder, it's more like a coating of soot. Hoppes cleans it right up but the first pass will look like coal tar.

[Mike Koneski]

Never trust the bushing chart to throw exactly what it says. ALWAYS test your bushings. I like to throw 3-5 charges and dump them back in the hopper. Then I'll throw 3 or 5 charges and weigh the entire charge, then divide it by 3 or 5 and look at the average. Then I'll weigh the next 5 individual charges. That way you'll get a very good idea of what the bushing is throwing. While doing all the testing for the 8g loads, I did not find a single bushing that threw exactly what the chart had listed. They're usually under the listed charge (lawyers are a PITA).

[Paul Ehlers]

Thanks for the follow-up Guy's!

After I made my post about the need for a bushing chart, I got to thinking about how I was looking at charts I've had for years. I then went to the Hodgdon site and found an updated chart with the PP information.

Like you guys. I've been reloading for years and know not to trust a bushing chart & to only use it as a starting point. I always weigh my powder charges to not only find the right bushing in the first place, but I also weigh at least three throws before I start each session as well, just to make sure everything is good to go. One lesson learned over the years is that MEC bushings are notorious for throwing charges different from those listed in their chart.

Here's another oddity with regards to PP discovered yesterday. My 8 pounder of PP was delivered and when I looked at the load information on the container label, I noticed there was a discrepancy between what it had listed for the load I'm interested in, and the data published on the Hodgdon site. The Hodgdon site listed 14.8 grs but the bottle listed 15.1 grs for the exact same load. .3 grains aren't a big deal, but I did find interesting that the company that makes the powder has this discrepancy in their published loading information--Go Figure!

After taking a harder look. I found where the discrepancy is. The 14.8gr loading uses a Cheddite 209 primer and the 15.1gr is using a Winchester 209's but both loads list the same pressure & FPS. This tells me that basically you can interchange cheddite 209's & W 209's and still be within the specs for this load. Having to change .3grs of powder is basically insignificant when you get right down to it.