Winchester 1912 Black Diamond Trap

[Samuel Bishop]

Again I can delete if not acceptable since another pump shotgun post but i truly do love sxs’s way more especially Parker’s! Lol. But just picked this rare bird up today out of a collection of 66 Winchester model 12’s and figured I’d share and see people’s thoughts on it. Technically it’s a model 1912 and it’s a black diamond trap model with 32in barrels! Hope I did alright in securing this fine piece of craftsmanship and history. Have all the models/gauges I could pretty much want if the model 12 now except the allusive 28g..

[Mike Franzen]

I love M12’s too. I had an old 1912 Black Diamond that had a black star on the bottom of the forend. It had a very low 4 digit serial number that put it about 1913 I believe. It’s one of my regret guns for ever having sold it. What’s the serial number on your gun

[Samuel Bishop]

I’m definitely more of a sxs man but I love a good model 12. Was trying to just get all the gauges then saw this odd one and was like that’d be pretty cool to add to collection even though I don’t shoot trap. It’s an early 119000 gun have to go look to remember exactly but ran numbers and it was made in 1916

[Dave Noreen]

Apparently, the earliest Tournament Grades had the "Black Diamond" in the grip as well as the Trap and Pigeon Grades.

125726

125728

Winchester revised this February 1914 folder adding that the "Black Diamond" would be omitted from the Tournament Grade.

125727

In the 1915 folder the Trap Grade is listed in all three gauges --

125730

while the Tournament Grade remained 12-gaauge only --

125729

and is pictured without the "Black Diamond."

[Bill Murphy]

I own a Tournament Grade with black diamonds, correct as Dave pointed out. I also own a Trap Grade without checkering, but can't afford a letter to verify its originality. It has a black diamond and not a remnant of checkering outline.

[Keith Sirmans]

Very nice! I know of 2 that are here in Valdosta. The old man's dad was a travelling salesman for winchester. As a kid they would give him a piece of pine to whittle in the stock room. Took all day but it kept him busy as a kid and he didn't mess p the good wood. One was owned by a lady exhibition shooter but I can't remember her name.

[Mike Franzen]

Has anyone else ever seen the black star inlaid on the bottom of the fore end?

[Drew Hause]

Keith: Plinky switched to a Model 12 at some point. She and Ad continued to shoot exhibitions until her death in Jan, 1945

https://photos.smugmug.com/Shooters/Ladies-/i-CTv3LMn/0/CpFrKwr7LpdL8fhLCqWWR3FVQZVHZhfXSR56TktP9/XL/Plinky%20Topperwein%204-XL.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Shooters/Ladies-/i-CTv3LMn/A)

“Famous Shooter Breaks 961 Out of 1000 in Day Before a Large Crowd”
San Antonio, Tex., July 27, 1908.
A large crowd saw Mrs. Adolph Topperwein shoot at 1000 targets in an endurance test Schwermeyer’s Park on July 19. The feat of shooting at such a number of targets in a few hours is no child’s play, and the fact that it has only been accomplished a few times in the history of trap shooting, by men who were seasoned shooters, demonstrates the magnitude of such a performance, and only those who study the shooting game closely realize what a tremendous task it is to shoot 1000 shots with a shotgun loaded with the regular trap load. Not only is Mrs. Topperwein’s score remarkable from an endurance point, but the accuracy she displayed in shooting this number shots is really wonderful, as she consumed but four hours and 35 minutes in firing the total score.
Mrs. Topperwein used but one gun, a Winchester (1897) trap gun weighing seven and one-half pounds, and a load of three and one-eighths drams of Dead Shot Smokeless powder in a Winchester Leader case.
The targets were thrown in the regulation manner, fully 50 yards, and at unknown angles. The shooting was done in strings of 25, shooting 100, with a few moments’ rest. She broke 96 out of her first 100 in exactly 20 minutes, and scored 98 in her last 100 in 16 minutes. She made several long runs, the best between the fifth and sixth hundred, when she scored 111 without a miss. The weather was very hot, and toward the end of the score very windy. Mrs. Topperwein suffered no inconvenience or ill-effects, with the exception of having her left hand blistered from a hot gun barrel.

1941 with a Model 12

https://photos.smugmug.com/Shooters/Ladies-/i-LtHzh7s/0/6hcWvM3f8rdPsGqj5XT3mk7cgNQt5x8sQT5ZgXmx/XL/Screenshot%20%282260%29-XL.png (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Shooters/Ladies-/i-LtHzh7s/A)

[Dave Noreen]

Plinky with a Model 1912 --

125739

[Samuel Bishop]

Love hearing about all the history of these! Learning way more than I knew and I just barely knew about the standard 12’s. Love hearing theirs a few down south of me Keith I’m sure they are well loved. Very interesting gun for sure. Not my typical model 12 or shotgun in general I go for but was so odd and cool that had to add it in. Thank you for the flyers Dave! Was nice reading about the difference in the models. I a 16g or 20g one of these would be SUPER neat to own or at least see in person! I’m sure even rarer than these. I’m guessing tournament and trap were pretty much the same besides certain barrel length options and such depending on the year. Mike I have very little knowledge or experience with these higher grade 12’s to know about the star…

[Samuel Bishop]

That’s awesome! I’ve got a later 1897 they are pretty nice like the 12’s. Dove is what I’m thinking of shooting on occasion with this one since I don’t shoot trap and maybe turkey on occasion. Think be too long for me to comfortable shoot sporting clays. Have been tempted to flip it towards another parker though…but afraid I’ll regret it lol

[Keith Sirmans]

He messaged me back and it's the Lillian Ralls gun
Keith: Plinky switched to a Model 12 at some point. She and Ad continued to shoot exhibitions until her death in Jan, 1945

https://photos.smugmug.com/Shooters/Ladies-/i-CTv3LMn/0/CpFrKwr7LpdL8fhLCqWWR3FVQZVHZhfXSR56TktP9/XL/Plinky%20Topperwein%204-XL.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Shooters/Ladies-/i-CTv3LMn/A)

“Famous Shooter Breaks 961 Out of 1000 in Day Before a Large Crowd”
San Antonio, Tex., July 27, 1908.
A large crowd saw Mrs. Adolph Topperwein shoot at 1000 targets in an endurance test Schwermeyer’s Park on July 19. The feat of shooting at such a number of targets in a few hours is no child’s play, and the fact that it has only been accomplished a few times in the history of trap shooting, by men who were seasoned shooters, demonstrates the magnitude of such a performance, and only those who study the shooting game closely realize what a tremendous task it is to shoot 1000 shots with a shotgun loaded with the regular trap load. Not only is Mrs. Topperwein’s score remarkable from an endurance point, but the accuracy she displayed in shooting this number shots is really wonderful, as she consumed but four hours and 35 minutes in firing the total score.
Mrs. Topperwein used but one gun, a Winchester (1897) trap gun weighing seven and one-half pounds, and a load of three and one-eighths drams of Dead Shot Smokeless powder in a Winchester Leader case.
The targets were thrown in the regulation manner, fully 50 yards, and at unknown angles. The shooting was done in strings of 25, shooting 100, with a few moments’ rest. She broke 96 out of her first 100 in exactly 20 minutes, and scored 98 in her last 100 in 16 minutes. She made several long runs, the best between the fifth and sixth hundred, when she scored 111 without a miss. The weather was very hot, and toward the end of the score very windy. Mrs. Topperwein suffered no inconvenience or ill-effects, with the exception of having her left hand blistered from a hot gun barrel.

1941 with a Model 12

https://photos.smugmug.com/Shooters/Ladies-/i-LtHzh7s/0/6hcWvM3f8rdPsGqj5XT3mk7cgNQt5x8sQT5ZgXmx/XL/Screenshot%20%282260%29-XL.png (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Shooters/Ladies-/i-LtHzh7s/A)

[George Davis]

I shot Bits & Pieces for years on Tuesday Nights at Red Mountain Gun Club and the most the consistent winner every week was a gentleman from Detroit who shot a Black Diamond. He's ride the bird until it was almost out of bound and crush it with us having no chance at a piece. He's almost 90 now and has multiple Model 12s and I love to hear his stories on duck hunting on the Great Lakes.

[Samuel Bishop]

I shot Bits & Pieces for years on Tuesday Nights at Red Mountain Gun Club and the most the consistent winner every week was a gentleman from Detroit who shot a Black Diamond. He's ride the bird until it was almost out of bound and crush it with us having no chance at a piece. He's almost 90 now and has multiple Model 12s and I love to hear his stories on duck hunting on the Great Lakes.

I bet it’s awesome listening to him. I would love to travel around and talk to all these seasoned collectors and view their unique pieces of functional art/history as well as hear their collecting stories and hunting/shooting stories.

[John Bastiani]

I bet it’s awesome listening to him. I would love to travel around and talk to all these seasoned collectors and view their unique pieces of functional art/history as well as hear their collecting stories and hunting/shooting stories.
I had a Black Diamond model 12 that was almost exactly like yours with the straight stock and small forend. It was made in 1922 with the 2 pin milled vent rib. Even though the gun was in 98% condition the pad had flattened through the years and I had to replace it like your gun. I did find a real Winchester pad and didn't use a repo. I have had several high grade model 12's(Pigeons-traps-skeets) but this had the best figured wood of the bunch(4x by winchester wood grading standards) Also: In the number 5 picture that you show-my gun had what I called a diamond and not a star. I'm not sure but I always heard that you have a real black diamond gun if the diamond(star) mark is present. Anyway-nice gun and most people don't realize how hard it is to find a black diamond model 12 especially with condition. I also had a black diamond model 97 trap.

[Bill Murphy]

I'm not sure Winchester collectors have really determined what the mark in the front of the take down part signifies. Some have the mark, some don't.

[Dave Noreen]

I'm not sure but I always heard that you have a real black diamond gun if the diamond(star) mark is present.

99.9% sure that is an urban myth.

The "black diamond" in the stock is just a feature of the Trap Grade and the Pigeon Grade guns, both Model 1912 and 1897. Through at least 1926 Winchester paper the Trap and Pigeon grades are still with the "black diamonds." The next Winchester paper I have is July 1931 and for the Model 12 the Tournament Grade had been replaced with the Standard Trap Grade and the Trap Grade had been replaced with the Special Trap Grade which is still pictured with the "black diamond." The Model 97 was only offered in the Standard Grade as well as the Guard & Riot and the Trench Gun.

By the November 1932 Winchester catalog, after the Olins took over Winchester, The Model 12 was still shown in the Standard Trap Grade (no "black diamond") and the Special Trap Grade with the "black diamond." For the Model 97 a Standard Trap Grade (no "black diamond") was back in the listings. The offerings remained the same through 1938. These guns were offered in all gauges.

Things change for 1939. Both the Standard Trap Grade and Special Trap Grade are gone, and they are replaced with the Model 12 Trap Gun shown with no "black diamond" and in 12-gauge only. The Pigeon Grade is still offered in all gauges and shown with the "black diamond." In the 1941 Winchester catalog there are two Model 12 Pigeon Grades shown, one with the "Black diamond" and one without.

[Scott Smith]

Model 1912 Black Diamond Trap - circa 1919. 30 inch Full. Pistol Grip somewhat "open". Heavy round-nosed comb. Repro pad is temporary until an original is obtained.

[Samuel Bishop]

I had a Black Diamond model 12 that was almost exactly like yours with the straight stock and small forend. It was made in 1922 with the 2 pin milled vent rib. Even though the gun was in 98% condition the pad had flattened through the years and I had to replace it like your gun. I did find a real Winchester pad and didn't use a repo. I have had several high grade model 12's(Pigeons-traps-skeets) but this had the best figured wood of the bunch(4x by winchester wood grading standards) Also: In the number 5 picture that you show-my gun had what I called a diamond and not a star. I'm not sure but I always heard that you have a real black diamond gun if the diamond(star) mark is present. Anyway-nice gun and most people don't realize how hard it is to find a black diamond model 12 especially with condition. I also had a black diamond model 97 trap.

Yeah it has a Winchester pad but no clue what vintage. I will say this is the first I’ve ever seen so I would agree they are a rare sight. I’ve never seen a vintage gun in person with 32in barrels either so it’s pretty cool piece to have lasted as well as has from 1916.

[Samuel Bishop]

Very beautiful gun! Wood on yours is definitely better! Ive never had an English style stock till now it it is sort of neat and interesting since not as common for us in America especially older guns but I will say I wish I had pistol grip like yours feel more natural to me. Thank you for sharing pics!

[John Bastiani]

Model 1912 Black Diamond Trap - circa 1919. 30 inch Full. Pistol Grip somewhat "open". Heavy round-nosed comb. Repro pad is temporary until an original is obtained.

Thats a beautiful black diamond with a great piece of wood. Seems like everyone I see has a replacement pad. I guess the original rubber just wouldn't hold up. I started putting the muzzle down on my Winchesters with a pad in the safe so there wouldn't be any pressure on the pad. Even my model 21 Grand American with the factory leather covered pad is muzzle down. Also-your picture (number five) looks like the diamond mark on my gun. I never really researched this mark but its more than likely a inspectors mark.
.

[Scott Smith]

Thanks John, this gun had a petrified Pachmyer on when I got. I have no idea what butt treatment it originally had. Storing muzzle-down is probably a good idea.