Revisions by Parker?

[Wayne Owens]

This is an update to my original post regarding the chance of the serialization book being incorrect. Attached are some photos I took today of the gun in question. Please review them and tell me your opinions on whether Parker did the revisions to the gun. I don't know what the repair code stamped into the gun means. I also don't know what the letters behind the triggers mean. I assume the sideways R stamped into the stock means a replacement stock. The ventilated rib does not have the last three digits of the serial number stamped into it's underside.

[Dean Romig]

It appears to have had a single trigger at one time. The R is for Right barrel on the selector switch which was in the position where the rear trigger occupies presently. The stock appears to be an original Parker or Remington replacement, hence the R stamped into the wood. The Ser & ID book won't necessarily show what a gun went back to Parker for. I suggest you get a Research Letter.

XD5 and XC3 are two seperate Remington repair codes.

[Bruce Day]

Wayne, responding to your direct personal request to me for comment, the stock looks dead on correct. I concur with Dean's assessment.

The vent rib looks correct. The last three of the SN should be stamped in the underside of the rib between the second and third support posts from the rear. But if not there, its not indicative of the rib being aftermarket in this case.

There are some guns with extra checkering details such as this one.

A nice and interesting gun.

[Jared Valeski]

In the last picture shown, there is a hole visable in the lower tang behind the rear trigger. Is this a remnant of the straight stock? There is no doubt the ventilated rib is original to the gun as the area where the rib extension meets the action is flat rather than concave. Is there a repair to the rib at the muzzle? A picture of the muzzle from the end would be appreciated.

[Bruce Day]

Wayne, your B has some extra checkering details, which is an interesting plus. Here is a C also with a little extra.

Parkers are all about the details.

[Wayne Owens]

Here are some additional pictures of the gun:

[Dean Romig]

The extra holes, one open and one plugged, are remnants of the single trigger screws that were in those positions, I believe. Dave Suponski will know for sure - he has one or two with that single trigger setup.

[Bruce Day]

Wayne, I am no Parker expert, but I think the rib end has come loose in the past, that's why the striations on the end rib post, and may be loose again, or could be better repaired.


As I said a couple months ago, this is a target gun, and a nice one.

[Richard LaMendola]

Wayne, What I find interesting is the front site bead. I have the same bead on a Lefever DS circa 1907. Yours is the only other one I've seen. Rich

[Wayne Owens]

Thanks for all of your input. My mind is made up; I am going to try to swing a deal on this gun.

[Bill Murphy]

I don't see the picture that one poster sees that would show the breech end of the rib and the top of the dolls head area of the receiver that would tell us whether the vent rib was on the gun when it left the factory the first time. The serialization book does not show it to be a vent rib or a single trigger gun. I will have to check, but it could have been a Miller trigger conversion reconverted to double triggers. The Miller conversion usually involves some ugly holes drilled in the trigger plate. However, the R that Dean mentions seems to be a Parker R. I don't know what a second generation Miller R looks like.

[Dave Suponski]

Wayne,Looking at your wonderful gun tells me it was originally built with a Parker one screw or first design single trigger. The extra screw hole in the floor plate was for the mounting screw for the mounting block. Also as Bruce states the muzzle end of the vent rib has been repaired and looks to need a little attention again but the keels are in place. A good barrel man can fix this up for you easily.

[Jerry Andrews]

Oddly enough I found one of those original beads the other day in my stuff. It's wrapped with ivory just as the one in the picture and it's still in it's original packet, Marbles I believe. Jerry

[Bill Bates]

If that is a 5 (I can't really tell if it is a 3 or a 5 on my laptop) Remington date code it would have been an employee purchase. The date code with the 3 would indicate the gun was back to Remington in December 1934 and the XD5 would be an employee purchase 1 year later. That may account for some of the special touches.

[Eric Eis]

As far as the vent rib, it looks correct and I have seen a couple of guns that lettered with vent ribs but did not have a serial number under the rib.

[Robin Lewis]

Bill,
Maybe you have the key to a mystery. I understand the month/year date codes as stated in http://www.remingtonsociety.com/rsa/questions/barrelcodes but have been mystified by the occosional digit field. From your comment I take it that a '3' indicates a customer repair and a '5' indicates an employee purchase? Is that correct? Are there other 'digits' and if so do you know their meaning?

[Bill Bates]

This link maybe helpful.

http://www.wisnersinc.com/additional_info/remington_date_code.htm

[Jared Valeski]

Bill, The flat and not concave doll's head area of the action was seen when I examined this gun last year. You can almost see this detail in one of the pictures. There is little doubt as to the originality of the vent rib.

[Dave Suponski]

Interesting...Another thing I noticed is the the stock must have been redone about the same time the single trigger was removed. In the 6th picture down where there is the screw hole for the mounting block you can see the stock wood. Normally this area would be hollowed out for the single trigger mechanism.

[Bill Murphy]

Thanks for the information about the flat top dolls head that was "almost pictured". I thought I was going blind. I believe this gun needs to be bought.

[Jared Valeski]

Bill,
The flat area is actually visable in the first picture of the original thread...
http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4106

[Dean Romig]

Unmistakable.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I didn't read the whole thread but if nobody already mentioned it, that's a Marbles brand front bead. I've got one on a Super Fox and another on a Stevens 522 straight grip trap model pump.

Destry

[Wayne Owens]

Firstly, Thank you all for your comments regarding the gun! I closed the deal today to buy it. Knowing the changes to the gun were likely factory, swayed me. Although not an expert, I evaluated the pictures for several months before posting to this list; I will continue to seek documentation to substantiate the consensus. Will a factory letter describe the changes done at the factory, (December 1934 and December 1935), as per the Remington date codes stamped on the gun?
Additionally, the rib needs proper repair-any suggestions on who to send it to? Lastly, should I leave the double trigger repair "as is" or should something be done with that repair?

[Bill Murphy]

No, the changes in 1934 and 1935 will not be described. As for the picture of the rib, I didn't realize that this was the Cabela's gun.

[Eric Eis]

Firstly, Thank you all for your comments regarding the gun! I closed the deal today to buy it. Knowing the changes to the gun were likely factory, swayed me. Although not an expert, I evaluated the pictures for several months before posting to this list; I will continue to seek documentation to substantiate the consensus. Will a factory letter describe the changes done at the factory, (December 1934 and December 1935), as per the Remington date codes stamped on the gun?
Additionally, the rib needs proper repair-any suggestions on who to send it to? Lastly, should I leave the double trigger repair "as is" or should something be done with that repair?

I would recomend Brad Bachelder, at 616-459-3636 for both repairs. I don't think a letter will tell you about Remington repairs.

[Dean Romig]

If you intend to have the triggers changed back to a single trigger I would recommend DelGrego without hesitation.

[Bill Murphy]

Leave the double triggers in there. They may not be factory, but probably are. However, they will allow you to shoot the gun. That is a big plus.

[Dean Romig]

I agree with Bill wholeheartedly. I should have been clear... "If you absolutely cannot be deterred from changing back to a single trigger..." would have better stated my opinion.

[Eric Eis]

Agree with Bill and Dean on the triggers

[Wayne Owens]

Here is what I have learned about the originality of the BHE: The factory letter states that this gun came with the ventilated rib, trap model forend and a straight stock. There is no mention of it having or not having a single selective trigger. The gun was completed July 31, 1925.
Ambercrombie and Fitch received the gun prior to February 1929. It was sold in February 1929 and returned February 21, 1929. It was again sold on March 2, 1929 to "The Larkin Store". At that time the A&F records indicate that the gun still had the straight stock but mentions a single selective trigger.
Too bad that the Parker factory repair records do not exist since the gun was returned to Parker on December 1933 and December 1934 for repair or modification. I suspect, but evidently will never know, if that is when the stock was changed to a pistol grip and the single trigger was modified to a double trigger. Oh well.
Also, I highly recommend contacting Robert Beach with Griffin and Howe to research your guns. The package he sent me about my gun was first class and very thorough. Thanks Robert!

[Dean Romig]

I echo Wayne's accolades for Bob Beach. If he has information on your gun Bob will leave no stone unturned and will send very nicely done research documents.