'K' stamp on flats??

[Alex Brushwein]

Hi All,

My Parker VH 16 Gauge has as near as I can tell, what appears to be a "KV" stamp on the barrel flats. See attached in the lower-left corner.

What does this reference?

Thanks,

- Alex

[Dean Romig]

That’s the inspector’s stamp. It was Charles A King, superintendant of the Parker Bros. Gun Works until 1910. His son Walter King followed his father as superintendant after 1910. The italicized f indicated “finished” or something to that effect.





.

[Dave Noreen]

I disagree. The early steel barrels have the K (Titanic & Acme) or Kf (Vulcan) stamp in the barrel steel location. I begin to see the V, P, P.S., T & A, usually in a circle in the 135xxx serial number range.

If the K and Kf were inspector's marks, why are they only seen on steel barrels? They aren't found on any Twist, Laminated or Damascus barrels.

[Bruce P Bruner]

I disagree. The early steel barrels have the K (Titanic & Acme) or Kf (Vulcan) stamp in the barrel steel location. I begin to see the V, P, P.S., T & A, usually in a circle in the 135xxx serial number range.

Dave, what can you extrapolate from a blank circle? There is a sun stamped on the opposite side as is a “KG” & “P”.

[Dean Romig]

That, I believe is a set of barrels that were begun under Parker Bros. ownership in Meriden CT (hence the blank circle) bet the gun was finished under Remington ownership in Illion NY (hence the Remington starburst) Remington dropped the various names of barrel steel and I suspect the legend on the top rib, if there is even a legend, will not include the name of a barrel steel.





.

[Bruce P Bruner]

That, I believe is a set of barrels that were begun under Parker Bros. ownership in Meriden CT (hence the blank circle) bet the gun was finished under Remington ownership in Illion NY (hence the Remington starburst) Remington dropped the various names of barrel steel and I suspect the legend on the top rib, if there is even a legend, will not include the name of a barrel steel.
.
You are correct Dean, no legend on the VR at all. Could I assume the barrels to be Titanic Steel? It may be just an unknown mystery.

[Dean Romig]

Bruce, I think you can make the assumption that the barrel flat was intended to be stamped with a T in that circle.





.

[Alex Brushwein]

I disagree. The early steel barrels have the K (Titanic & Acme) or Kf (Vulcan) stamp in the barrel steel location. I begin to see the V, P, P.S., T & A, usually in a circle in the 135xxx serial number range.

Ok, so this particular gun is S/N 124889 (1904 date), which would align with your S/N range listed above.

What were they specifying at that time with these stamps? Is it as Dean suggested? That would make sense to me. Here I was thinking the 'f' was a mis-stamped V... I should have known better :knowbetter:

I appreciate the responses and the info!

[Dave Noreen]

Dave, what can you extrapolate from a blank circle? There is a sun stamped on the opposite side as is a “KG” & “P”.

Everything about those barrels say they were completed late in the Remington era -- the PARKER GUN WORKS in the OVERLOAD PROVED stamp -- the Remington date code KG K = May G = 1938 -- the serial number on the left barrel flat -- and the marks we assume to be Remington inspector marks.

[Dave Noreen]

Ok, so this particular gun is S/N 124889 (1904 date), which would align with your S/N range listed above.

What were they specifying at that time with these stamps? Is it as Dean suggested? That would make sense to me. Here I was thinking the 'f' was a mis-stamped V... I should have known better :knowbetter:

I appreciate the responses and the info!

People at Parker Brothers in the 1890s and early 1900s knew what those marks meant, but we can only speculate. We begin seeing the W.K in oval Walter King mark on the left barrel flat and still see the K and Kf in the barrel steel location in the low 130xxx serial number range.

124434

124435

My speculation is that the change from the K and Kf to the letters, usually in a circle, indicates a change in supplier of the rough steel tubes.

[Mike Poindexter]

Now Ive learned something new. I always thought as Dean has that the Kf was Charles King, because I never saw it on later guns with the W.K. or J.G. inspector marks. Now I see it along with the later marks, so it suggests something else as Dave says. Interesting.

[Dean Romig]

Charles Alonzo King, (K) Parker Bros Plant Superintendant, was employed by Parker Brothers from 1874-1914 and was plant Superintendant beginning sometime in 1874 following his employment with Smith & Wesson from about 1867 as plant superintendant there until he joined Parker Bros. in 1874. He remained in that position with Parker Brothers until late in 1908 when his son Walter (WK) took over the position of Plant Superintendant.
His son Walter also served Parker Bros. from 1898 - 1906 as a barrel-making congtractor (WK) prior to his stint as Parker Gun Works superintendant....
So I see no valid reason at all why the stamps of both Charles A. King (K) and Walter King (WK) might not appear together on barrel flats during this period of overlapping positions of responsibility...





.

[Kevin McCormack]

See the thread started by "Gunner" on 10-13-2016 on this topic for further info and speculation.

[edgarspencer]

I'd have to agree with Dave that it's a stretch to speculate that K is an inspector's mark, Charles King or otherwise. If a superintendent was also serving as an inspector, wouldn't his mark also appear on all grades higher than V grade, and wouldn't he also inspect guns with damascus barrels? I also think it's a stretch to suggest 'f' represented 'finished' as I would presume it wouldn't be inspected until it was finished, making it redundant. If W.K., and J.G., then, why not C.K.?

[Dean Romig]

I'd have to agree with Dave that it's a stretch to speculate that K is an inspector's mark, Charles King or otherwise. If a superintendent was also serving as an inspector, wouldn't his mark also appear on all grades higher than V grade, and wouldn't he also inspect guns with damascus barrels? I also think it's a stretch to suggest 'f' represented 'finished' as I would presume it wouldn't be inspected until it was finished, making it redundant. If W.K., and J.G., then, why not C.K.?


Deleted - not kind - sorry.





.

[edgarspencer]

Deleted - not kind - sorry.
.

"Possibly valid Edgar, so what is the solution according to your line of thinking?"

Nothing unkind taken. Solution? Get out the Ouija board. None of us were there, and in the absence of some heretofore unknown document, it comes down to what you want to believe.

[Dave Noreen]

We have argued this many times in the past.

https://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=35485&highlight=barrel+steel+mark

My arguments are --

1. That we only see the Kf on barrels marked on the rib Vulcan Steel and the K on barrels marked on the rib Titanic Steel or Acme Steel.

2. The marks are in the same general area where the D, L and T of composite barrels were found.

3. The K and Kf are not found on composite barrels.

4. The K and Kf marks are not seen on barrels with the V, P, P.S., T or A, usually in a circle, barrel steel marks.