Too Good To Be True ?

[Bobby Cash]

Could it be real?
Wouldn't "Possibly unfired" preclude "New in the Box" ?

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/shotguns/parker-shotguns/parker-ghe-grade-sxs-1-1-2-frame-12ga-26-barrels-choked-ic-im-100-new-in-the-box-new-new-new-make-offer-.cfm?gun_id=102587585

[Reggie Bishop]

Looks like a very nice Parker.

[Ken Descovich]

$18,500.00 for a 12 ga GH doesnt sound to be to good to be true to me.

[George Lang]

Me neither.

[Bobby Cash]

More interested in knowing whether this gun could have gone through the CSMC mill.
Thank you

[edgarspencer]

Not surprised at the negative comments about CSMC. I am, however, surprised at only a few comments about the gun.
My question to the doubters; Why would anyone fake a relatively low grade gun?
Seriously, have you nothing better to do than play Doubting Thomas?
It must be sad to think someone pisses in your cheerios every day.

[Dean Romig]

Wonderful all original GHE with Runge engraving!!





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[Bobby Cash]

Not surprised at the negative comments about CSMC. I am, however, surprised at only a few comments about the gun.
My question to the doubters; Why would anyone fake a relatively low grade gun?
Seriously, have you nothing better to do than play Doubting Thomas?
It must be sad to think someone pisses in your cheerios every day.

I lack the Parker knowledge to know better.
Thats why I asked.

So Dean, original, great.
New in the Box ???

[Chris Travinski]

The engraving on that gun is spectacular in my opinion. The duck scene on the left side is the best G grade engraving I've ever seen...

[Stephen Hodges]

I have had generally good dealings with CSMC but I guess others have not. I would not think such a large dealer would fake a gun of this sort. Is it worth the asking price? It is if someone is willing to pay it.

[Dave Noreen]

Second gun after the Trojan Skeet Gun.

The engraving on the trigger guard doesn't look "crisp" enough to be new to me and the screw looks a bit iffy.

123520

[Joseph Sheerin]

Good thing it's to spendy for me, cause first thing I'd do is take it out and shoot it. :D

[todd allen]

I'm thinking the Market will soon reveal the value of that gun.
We need to be good sports if it sells for too much
:corn:

[Bobby Cash]

I've long ago abandoned my collecting theme of owning
the most expensive example of _____ in the marketplace.

[Bill Murphy]

Coming on eighty, I have developed a strategy for selling off. Sell the high grade and high condition stuff first. You are less likely to take a bath than your heirs. Leave the low grades and project guns for someone else to worry about. I'll bet that the owner of this GHE is my age.

[edgarspencer]

I lack the Parker knowledge to know better.
Thats why I asked.


That's fine, but it isn't necessary to disparage someone's gun with inuendo.

I'm standing next to Tony, with the gun in my hand and can say that the photos in the GI listing should have been good enough to know the gun is what they say it is. It's flat new, and the value is as much a learning experience. Is a nice GHE worth that? Not hardly, but how often do you get to see one just as it left the factory? Would I buy it? No, because I am not in a position to invest in something I can't enjoy to the fullest, but I have no doubt it will sell.
I am only 30 minutes away, and when I really want to see something of this rarity, I'm lucky enough to not have to rely on the internet alone.

Plus, It's a great reason to go to New Britain and have a couple of the best Hot Dogs in New England.

[todd allen]

I want that gun, but A: I can't afford it, and B: I would get frustrated owning something that nice that I couldn't use.
I have sold most of my guns that are too nice to use, even though I did use them all to one extent or another.

[Bill Murphy]

At my age, 78 plus, I am less interested in my high condition guns and more interested in putting as many rounds as possible through the rest of them.

[Randy G Roberts]

A somewhat similar gun in a 16 gauge in the 241K serial number range but not quite as nice as the subject gun which I know has absolutely nothing to do with the OP's original question :)

[Bill Murphy]

What's the deal with Dave Noreen's comment about the Trojan skeet gun?

[Mark Britton]

OK why is the seller stating that the gun is chocked IC /IM When the box says IC/IC I think I read that right ?

[Bobby Cash]

OK why is the seller stating that the gun is chocked IC /IM When the box says IC/IC I think I read that right ?

Excellent question.
Perhaps Edgar is still standing next to Mr. Galazan and can ask him.
I'd be curious to know what the serialization book says. Help anyone?

[edgarspencer]

OK why is the seller stating that the gun is chocked IC /IM When the box says IC/IC I think I read that right ?

I saw that also, and forgot to ask. I even had the barrels on the counter, and the Chubbs sitting right there.
I'm surprised no one has asked about SPECIAL.
Bobby, you don't have a book? It matches the book if that helps you write the check.
Haters gotta hate, but I suspect the gun won't sit very long.
Tony bought a nice Parker skeet gun yesterday also, but that's not my thing

[Bobby Cash]

Good evening Edgar.
Sorry to be so dense but what matches the book?
The description or the factory box?
Thank you.

[edgarspencer]

Bobby, the 'Book' for 237449 say P2 H 2 C 12 26, meaning Grade 2 Parker Special Steel, Hammerless, Option code 2 (ejectors) 12ga, 26" The box marking of chokes wouldn't be reflected in the info in the serialization book, and whether the box is correct at Imp Cyl, and Imp Cyl wouldn't seem as likely as the gun actually being IC and Imp Mod. The "SPECIAL" is anyone's guess, but as the chokes may have been IC and IC, which might have been a specific request, that might have been the meaning.
I'm only speculating, and was more involved in my deal than the details of the subject gun.
The engraving, as Dean noted, is clearly R Runge, but it is so crisp, it gave me the thought that he may have paid more attention to it than ordinary. All of the birds seemed more lifelike.

[Jim DiSpagno]

It’s a 1/2 frame gun and could have been special ordered with those chokes maybe

[J. Scott Hanes]

Edgar, thanks for taking the time to add to this very interesting Parker and to provide more photos. I thought from the GI site there was not enough light on the gun to show the true color of the stock and forend. The dimensions of the stock are DAC: 1-3/4" but are likely less than that as the label on the box shows "5/3", which I think would be 1.67", or closer to "1-5/8". Did you shoulder the gun? Does it seem that low to you? Also, there appears to be some rub marks on the top, rear of the stock at the heel. Just handling marks? Thanks.

[Bill Murphy]

If it's a half frame gun, that would add some to its value and price. Is it on our half frame "list"? Can Researcher give us some information on his comment about a Trojan skeet gun?

[Brian Dudley]

It is not a 1/2 frame gun. It is a 1-1/2

[edgarspencer]

It’s a 1 1/2 frame

[Andrew Sacco]

I don't really have the knowledge to judge but would say I don't believe it for a few reasons.

There are some dents in the stock clearly visible
The trigger guard engraving does look soft as pointed out
The trigger guard screw does not look untouched
It's CSMC so as far as pissing in cheerios, they've done a lot of pissing over the years and they've turned a lot of people off. We all have to go by prior experience and in the past 2-3 years I know more unhappy people than happy people who have dealt with them. The latest is a friends gun they had for nearly 10 months before they told him it was a repair they don't even do.

[Ryan Brege]

The trigger guard is very suspect. That and the dents in the stock clearly take it far from 100% new. Put me in the man I wish they would just be a stand up company crowd. And yes, I have had sour dealings and that was only a $1300 VH......SMH

[Stephen Hodges]

These last two posts bashing Connecticut Shotgun are just the reason I hate reading feedback on companies online. It seems that the negative rises to the top and if you let it you would probably never buy from anyone again. I have happened to have had a good experience dealing with them. Six or seven years ago I got an itch for a made in USA modern double for clay, made to my dimensions with the options that I wanted. I live in Central NH so I traveled to Connecticut Shotgun and met with a sales person to have a custom RBL built for me. . I picked out the wood, barrel length, number of triggers, 2, finish type and heel treatment. I said that I wanted it light for a 12, so they built it on a 16 gauge frame. And the stock of course to my fitting. What I received was a wonderful gun that became my go to clays gun. The only issue was that I was not quite happy with the finish, but it was not so bad that I sent it back. Fast forward 5 years and I was at Housemans and walked by the CSMC tent and happed to have my RBL with me. I showed the person the gun and told him how pleased that I was with it and asked him what he thought of the finish on the sock. He did not think that it was up to there standards and took my gun back with him and has the entire stock refinished and sent back to me. I was very pleased with the new results. Good customer service in my book.

[Stephen Hodges]

My RBL

[Ryan Brege]

See, the trouble is times are changing. The WWW has offered the opportunity for all to share experiences that normally were just word of mouth at shows. I know my view is unpopular but reality. Ironically there is always talk of the future of collecting and myself and my peers are that future.

The "Good 'ol boys club" is going to lose to the transparency of the internet. Plain and simple.

I wouldn't be surprised to find a Superposed butt plate on this "NIB" Parker just like my all original VH showed up with. YMMV.

[Chuck Bishop]

I won't comment on anything other than the case colors and wood. The add never said the gun was never handled. Doesn't take much to scratch or dent the wood. In my opinion the case colors are excellent and original. They are what I call the second generation of case colors meaning a different pattern or placement of colors on the metal. Having the box certainly adds to the value. How much I don't know.

[edgarspencer]

I don't really have the knowledge to judge but would say I don't believe it for a few reasons. Your not alone. There are lots of people out there that lack the knowledge, and yet, there they are, making judgements.

There are some dents in the stock clearly visible Yes, I see them, and saw them with the gun in my hand. Quite shallow, but there.
The trigger guard engraving does look soft as pointed out
The trigger guard screw does not look untouchedThe engraving is crisp, but Remington did not Nitre blue the trigger guards, as was done in Meriden. Cold rust bluing is a micro rusting process, and does have the effect of 'softening' edges. Digital photography depth of field focuses on one edge, but having it in hand and rotating it in good light trups the best picture.
It's CSMC so as far as pissing in cheerios, they've done a lot of pissing over the years and they've turned a lot of people off. We all have to go by prior experience and in the past 2-3 years I know more unhappy people than happy people who have dealt with them. The latest is a friends gun they had for nearly 10 months before they told him it was a repair they don't even do.

The trigger guard is very suspect. I'm sure you mean 'very suspect' to you, though I have yet to see the newest super VGA 1080x760 yada monitor that beats being there. That and the dents in the stock clearly take it far from 100% new. Put me in the man I wish they would just be a stand up company crowd. And yes, I have had sour dealings and that was only a $1300 VH......SMH

See, the trouble is times are changing. The WWW has offered the opportunity for all to share experiences that normally were just word of mouth at shows. I know my view is unpopular but reality. Ironically there is always talk of the future of collecting and myself and my peers are that future.

The "Good 'ol boys club" is going to lose to the transparency of the internet. Plain and simple. Transparency? The internet opens up a world of information. It has also been described as the greatest source of misinformation.The secret is being informed, from other sources, to know the difference.

I wouldn't be surprised to find a Superposed butt plate on this "NIB" Parker just like my all original VH showed up with.I'll spare you the suspence. See my pics of the gun, in the box, on page 2. It's a Dogs Head Butt Plate. I know, I looked it up on the internet. YMMV.

It never fails to amaze me that people insist on a first hand inspection before buying something of import, but are happy to reject something from a few pictures.
The pictures were good enough for me to take a run down there, and spend an hour with the gun in my hand, using my pretty good eyeballs.

[Stan Hoover]

It never fails to amaze me that people insist on a first hand inspection before buying something of import, but are happy to reject something from a few pictures.
The pictures were good enough for me to take a run down there, and spend an hour with the gun in my hand, using my pretty good eyeballs.

I wish I was as close as your Edgar,
They have had a gun for about a year that has really bugged me, I wish I could inspect it firsthand. So far the distance and the price have made me stay at home.

Very nice RBL there Steve, you did well on the wood!

[edgarspencer]

I wish I was as close as your Edgar,
They have had a gun for about a year that has really bugged me, I wish I could inspect it firsthand. So far the distance and the price have made me stay at home.

Very nice RBL there Steve, you did well on the wood!
Fire up that Piper. 4B9 (Simsbury) is 5 minutes away, and I'll pick you up and go visit that gun.

[Arthur Shaffer]

My problem is that they try to run a major internet business and have no workable sales system.

I have purchased two RBL's early on from them; a Launch Edition and a custom order. Both turned out great but gatting them was frustrating.

In the past year I have tried to get information from them on three different Beretta SO guns (which I am pretty conversant with). All were for sale on line. All of them were obviously not as advertised, which would have been obvious to any knowledgeable buyer but not to your average gun buyer. They were off in manufacture date by a decade or more. I tried multiple times to contact them via GI and never recieved any response, get lost or otherwise. This was after trying previously to buy guns that were shown in stock and advertised but were out of stock on contact. Oddly, they were never removed from the ads.

I gave up on trying to buy guns from them. A few months ago, I placed orders online for a number of reproduction recoil pads I was buying for current and future projects. I also ordered a square of goatskin for a leather covered pad. It was shown as two orders and both went through the picking and shipping phase. I waited a while and both orders were listed as picked with the first listed as shipped. The second waited several weeks in the packed awaiting shipment catagory. I emailed customer service and after the second question the order was shipped. The expensive goatskin was not in the box. I sent another email. Then a second. Then a third. I gave up because life is just too short.

None of this is opinion or guessing or interpretation. It is fact and it happened. They may be the greatest guys in the world when you go in and schmooz but in my opinion, they are not possible to deal with constructively in the mail order world.

[CraigThompson]

Fire up that Piper. 4B9 (Simsbury) is 5 minutes away, and I'll pick you up and go visit that gun.

Stan if you feel like flying a good bit swing down to the Orange airport pick me up and I’ll go with ya ! I’d like to see the J Cliff Green set again and maybe swing by Edgar’s house and have a look see at his Frick . Yeah yeah yeah I’m a multi faceted money waster :rotf::rotf::rotf:

[Eric Eis]

That's fine, but it isn't necessary to disparage someone's gun with inuendo.

I'm standing next to Tony, with the gun in my hand and can say that the photos in the GI listing should have been good enough to know the gun is what they say it is. It's flat new, and the value is as much a learning experience. Is a nice GHE worth that? Not hardly, but how often do you get to see one just as it left the factory? Would I buy it? No, because I am not in a position to invest in something I can't enjoy to the fullest, but I have no doubt it will sell.
I am only 30 minutes away, and when I really want to see something of this rarity, I'm lucky enough to not have to rely on the internet alone.

Plus, It's a great reason to go to New Britain and have a couple of the best Hot Dogs in New England.

This is the first time I've seen this thread otherwise I would have spoken before. Since I was lucky enough to have owned a new in box Parker Skeet gun GHE 16 ga which many of you have seen I would agree with Edger and the price is much lower then the price I slold (unfortunatelymy gun for ! I looks like a great gun and where are you going to find another !

[Dean Romig]

I wonder if the “SPECIAL” may actually be a reference to the Parker Special Steel barrels it has rather than the Parker Steel barrels used on the Grade 1 guns, one grade below the subject gun.

I don’t have my Serialization book handy at the moment but would expect the Grade 2 would be listed there as a PS2 and the Grade 1 would be listed as a P1…
Am I wrong in this presumption?





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[Donald F. Mills]

According the grade codes table in the book
P2 - Grade 2 with Parker special steel barrels
PS - lower grade guns with plain steel barrels
PP - Grade 1 guns with Parker steel barrels

Subject gun lists as P2 in the book

[edgarspencer]

I wonder if the “SPECIAL” may actually be a reference to the Parker Special Steel barrels it has rather than the Parker Steel barrels used on the Grade 1 guns, one grade below the subject gun.

I don’t have my Serialization book handy at the moment but would expect the Grade 2 would be listed there as a PS2 and the Grade 1 would be listed as a P1…
Am I wrong in this presumption?





.
I doubt it is in reference to the barrel steel, simply because Parker Special is standard for a Gr. 2 gun.
A letter may indicate it was ‘Special Ordered’ for chokes, weight, whatever.
One thing I forgot to mention previously, was when I was holding the barrels, it seemed to me that the legend appeared engraved, rather than roll-stamped. Yes, it had a legend, as this is a transition gun, made in Meriden, under Remington ownership.

[Eric Eis]

Sorry guys I hit a wrong key. My NIB skeet gun was a VHE not a G. Sorry about that.....!wrong key