Reverse Chokes

[Adam Steinquist]

How common was it for Parker to produce a gun with reverse chokes? I have a 1911 VH 16ga with a straight stock that patterns Modified in the right barrel and Improved Cylinder in the left barrel. I don’t have a bore gauge, so I can’t tell the constrictions properly, but a micrometer also reads .650” in the right barrel and .658” in the left barrel.

Because it was built in 1911, it precedes the development of skeet. I ordered a PGCA letter, hoping it might shed some light on what the chokes were from the factory, but there is no mention of choking or patterning. In looking at the tubes, I don’t see any tooling marks to indicate that someone altered the chokes.

The gun was originally ordered by a gentleman of Boston and when it was ordered there was a specified LOP, DAC, DAH, and Weight, but no mention of a request for choking.

I know in the UK it’s not uncommon to have doubles reverse choked for pass shooting. Was this a common choke arrangement for waterfowl? Were there other target shooting sports of that era that would have favored a reverse choke gun?

If these chokes are factory, it seems odd they wouldn’t have specifically been asked for when stock measurements and weight were requested.

Would love to hear if this community has any insight.

[Bob Brown]

I've got a DH12 choked full right, cylinder left and the letter shows that it was ordered that way. I would think that if it was original it would have been mentioned in the letter.

[Brian Dudley]

It would have been done on request for shooting driven/incoming game.

[William Davis]

I have a 10 G that’s reverse choked. Parker letter showed it was purchased by individual living on the upper Mississippi. No doubt for incoming ducks. Clay targets you don’t see many incoming targets but shooting them further out often the best strategy

William

[John Davis]

It could also have been done for a lefty, with the triggers reversed. Left trigger in front (left barrel first), right trigger in back (right barrel second). And then over the past hundred plus years, a righty came along and had the triggers swapped. I’ve actually had this done and it didn’t seem to be a big deal. At least it wasn’t an expensive fix.

Just another possible scenario. In any event, I would think it would have been mentioned in the order.

[Adam Steinquist]

Thanks all. This has been a curiousity to me. The PGCA letter does state that the gun was shipped back to Parker when it was three years old to have dents removed, but no mention of anything else such as choke work being done at that time either.

This gun also has a “&” stamped on the barrel flat of the left barrel and I’ve never come across that stamp before. Does anyone know what that might indicate? Would it have been a repair stamp?

[Adam Steinquist]

Here’s a picture of the stamp I’m referring to.

[J. Scott Hanes]

Most likely an inspector's mark.

[Adam Steinquist]

Can anyone speak to how obvious tooling marks are from chokes being altered? I’ve had a German SxS worked on to open chokes by Mike Orlen and the tooling marks were very clear to see, but not sure how time affects things, and if choke work done 75 years ago would start to blend in with the rest of the barrels.

The right barrel also has a few small dents at the end of the barrel and maybe that is impacting the constriction of the pattern.

Is it possible that the order records that specify stock measurements and weight would have been logged separately from requests related to choke? I’m not trying to have anyone tell me, “Your gun is original” just looking to learn more about how/what Parker recorded these details.

I have two VH guns (1911 and 1928) and neither of those mention choke/patterning. One of my GH guns (1906) doesn’t mention original choking, but says it was returned to the factory to have the right choke opened up. My other GH (1897) does mention the choke boring when it was made.

Did the recording of choking/patterning happen more consistently during a particular era or above a certain grade gun?

[Chuck Bishop]

Adam, I'm glad I read your thread and decided to look at the records again. At the very bottom of the order and at the bottom of the page it does give the requested chokes as RH full, LH imp cylinder. I just didn't see it. I'm sending you a revised letter.

It's not rare to see reversed chokes. I always include chokes (except when I screw up!) in a letter if they are listed. The reason someone may get a letter without mentioning chokes is if the order doesn't specify how the gun is to be choked and the stock book, when copied, wasn't placed on the copier properly thereby cutting off the choke pattern information. The stock ledger books are greater than 17" long but the copier is only 17". The patterning info and other info is past the 17" mark. If the ledger book is put on the copier as far to the left as possible, the patterning info is readable. This also assumes that the stock book isn't missing.

[Adam Steinquist]

Thanks Chuck! That’s exciting to hear! I really appreciated how quickly you put together my four recent letters for me, and I hope you didn’t take this thread to imply anything otherwise. I understand that some records aren’t available, and I assumed that was the case in this instance. I probably should have mentioned the potential reverse chokes as a note when I requested the letter.

Is there a thread anywhere or a place on the PGCA site that shows what a stock book looks like? It would be a fascinating peek into history.

[Chuck Bishop]

You can go to the FAQ links found on the home page and see examples of the Xerox copies we have. If you have The Parker Story, there is a photograph of an original stock book page which is a little hard to read. It helps to have a magnifier handy.

[Dean Weber]

Chuck,

Just gotta say....fine work. As always, admirable diligence on your part.

Best - Dean

[Stan Hillis]

Reversed chokes have always been a puzzle to me. I shoot double trigger S X S guns almost exclusively for doves, which are often taken as incomers. One of the touting points of double triggers is that one can instantly choose an open, or closer choked, barrel just by choosing the appropriate trigger. So, if that's the case, and it most certainly is, why order chokes reversed?

IMO, it is just a quirk of the particular shooter that ordered the gun. He didn't want to learn the very simple method of choke selection (such as hitting the rear trigger first), but would rather have the choice made for him. Hard for me to understand, really.

I shot doves Saturday afternoon and made the "split-second decision" to go to the rear trigger first several times. It's not brain surgery, it just requires a bit of mental preparation.