Mortimore & Son 10 Bore

[Pete Lester]

I wasn't looking for another gun but last week I ran across a nice side by side 10 gauge for sale by a maker I was not familiar with, Mortimore & Son in Edinborough Scotland. The gun appealed to me for several reasons, original 28" fluid steel barrels, proofed for 3 1/2 10 gauge shells, English grip, modern dimensions but a tad long for me, 8 1/2 pounds, tight and overall good condition. I put the gun on hold until I could learn more. I was able to find that Mortimore & Son started out in London and was one of London's oldest gun makers before moving to Scotland. They merged with John Dickson in 1938. I put a few pictures I took at the store on a Facebook page and asked for general information about the maker. I was quite surprised and very pleased to get the following reply from a Mr. Peter Croft across the pond, it's more than I could ask for, his reply is below.

This gun was made for a Mr F.W.Smith and sold on the 1st August 1929. It had 28" steel barrels with 3-1/4" chambers choked Full & Full. It weighed 8lbs 9oz and it was stipulated in the original order that there was to be no checkering on stock or forend. The original stock dimensions were: Length to centre 14 5/8". Drop at comb 1-1/8" Drop at heel 2-1/8". In the intervening years the chambers were lengthened and the gun proofed for 3-1/2"(89mm) cartridges. The stock and forend were also checkered at some time.

How do I know all this? I used to own this gun and the info above came from Dickson's when they were still in the Frederick Street shop. Sam Wilcox looked it up for me and I've just read all that info off Gary MacPherson's business card that I wrote everything down on.
I had the Silvers pattern rubber recoil pad fitted by former Churchill Gunmakers stocker Jeff Tyrrell who lived a couple of doors from my Mum in Sutton Coldfield.

I often speculated on why the gun had been ordered with that specification. Across the Firth of Forth there are large numbers of greylag and pink foot geese in Fife and there also numbers to be found east of Edinburgh. Both these areas have rich arable farming and the geese flight into the fields to feed. It's my belief that the gun was ordered with 28" barrels to make it handier to use when hiding in a ditch or hedge alongside the fields. Omitting the checkering would, no doubt, have made the gun easier to clean because the rich soil can soon clog up checkering. The choice of a 3-1/4" 10ga would give quite an improvement on 12 magnum performance. Whilst not as powerful as an 8ga, with it's 28" barrels it would have been a lot handier and with its 1-3/4oz shot load it wouldn't have been far behind the bigger gun in performance.

Rob Foster remarked that the gun would "kick like a mule". Well it wasn't that bad although with Winchester XX 2-1/4oz loads recoil was a bit brisk. I shot a number of geese with those big Winchesters and didn't find the recoil excessive. It shot best with the 3-1/4" load of 1-3/4oz. I would load that in a Winchester or Federal case trimmed to 3-1/4", with a Remington SP10 wad and Blue Dot powder. Rolled turnover closure. These proved very effective and I once shot a carrion crow at 85yards with that load (measured 85 not guesstimated).

I don't know what else to tell you about the gun but if you care to message me I can give you a phone number you can call me on if you want any further info.

[Matt Buckley]

Mortimore built many double barrel percussion guns in the early to mid 19th century. You have a dandy turkey and goose gun.

[keavin nelson]

My wife's father had a 12 ga Mortimer percussion SXS. It supposedly was used by his father to hunt with.

[Daryl Corona]

Now that beats the heck out of a Parker letter. Nice going Pete. Let us know if and when you call him.

[Pete Lester]

Now that beats the heck out of a Parker letter. Nice going Pete. Let us know if and when you call him.

He and I have been chatting via Facebook Messenger. He seems like a very nice man who also trains Labrador Retrievers. A true English gentleman. I believe you two would get along quite well.

[Kevin McCormack]

From Peter Croft's response: "I often speculated on why the gun had been ordered with that specification. Across the Firth of Forth there are large numbers of greylag and pink foot geese in Fife and there also numbers to be found east of Edinburgh. Both these areas have rich arable farming and the geese flight into the fields to feed. It's my belief that the gun was ordered with 28" barrels to make it handier to use when hiding in a ditch or hedge alongside the fields."

On both trips to Scotland for driven birds in December 2004 and 2006, we stayed in this exact area, just south of St. Andrews. Although we did not hunt geese, his detailed comments on the habits and local hunting methods (e.g., "ditch gunning") for Greylag and pink-footed geese are precisely descriptive of the style and type of pursuing them. They were very abundant and the locals very adept at taking their limits, particularly at night. which is (or was) legal there at that time. Their calls are very distinctive and reminded me of a comined "yodel" of our Snow geese mixed with the gutteral trill of Atlantic brant.

[CraigThompson]

That gun would have tested my will power as I’m trying not to buy anything :rotf: I’ve got one 10 with long chambers but it’s a hammer gun also fluid steel barrels , but this would be a nice edition even if it isn’t my preferred maker .

[Pete Lester]

That gun would have tested my will power as I’m trying not to buy anything :rotf: I’ve got one 10 with long chambers but it’s a hammer gun also fluid steel barrels , but this would be a nice edition even if it isn’t my preferred maker .

My will power in that regard dissipated rather rapidly after receiving Mr. Croft's reply about this gun.

[Dave Noreen]

For many years the 10-gauge 3 1/2-inch Magnum shells, back when they only carried 2-ounces of shot, carried the admonition "USE ONLY IN GUNS WEIGHING 10 1/2 POUNDS OR MORE."

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[CraigThompson]

My will power in that regard dissipated rather rapidly after receiving Mr. Croft's reply about this gun.

I am correct in assuming the guns on our side of the pond ?

[CraigThompson]

For many years the 10-gauge 3 1/2-inch Magnum shells, back when they only carried 2-ounces of shot, carried the admonition "USE ONLY IN GUNS WEIGHING 10 1/2 POUNDS OR MORE."

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Well then my Parker Grade 2 top lever 10 gauge with the extra Belgian made fluid steel barrels is perfect as it has 3 1/2” chambers and the gun weighs almost exactly 10 1/2 pounds .

[Pete Lester]

For many years the 10-gauge 3 1/2-inch Magnum shells, back when they only carried 2-ounces of shot, carried the admonition "USE ONLY IN GUNS WEIGHING 10 1/2 POUNDS OR MORE."



Seems like sage advice to me. I have no intention of beating the gun or my shoulder up with such heavy loads.

[Brett Trimble]

Pete,

What a wonderful gun! Having the context of who used it and what it was used for makes it so much more special.

I’ve shot graylags on the isle of South Uist in the Outer Hebrides. One of the most beautiful landscapes I’ve encountered. I can imagine being hunkered down behind a sand dune looking out over the windy Atlantic with that great gun in my hands!!

[CraigThompson]

Seems like sage advice to me. I have no intention of beating the gun or my shoulder up with such heavy loads.

FWIW last week I tried some factory loaded buckshot and slugs in my grade 2 hammer with the Begian barrels on and it would open your eyes to say the least :rotf:

[Pete Lester]

Took it to the trap field today for a functionality test, works at it should. Scott Kittredge measured the chokes, .045 in the right barrel and .048 in the left. My 1894 Remington 10 bore is about the same constriction. I will pattern it another day but I am guessing it will be around 90% at 40 yards like the Remmy.

[Phil Yearout]

‘Tis a pretty thing, fer sure!

[Arthur Shaffer]

For many years the 10-gauge 3 1/2-inch Magnum shells, back when they only carried 2-ounces of shot, carried the admonition "USE ONLY IN GUNS WEIGHING 10 1/2 POUNDS OR MORE."

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I have a Best Grade 8 gauge single by W&C Scott that is chambered for 3-1/2 inch shells and weighs 9-3/4 pounds. It is, I believe, a "Light Waterfowl" model. I have seen only one reference to that term.

Maybe hunters were just tougher in those days.

[CraigThompson]

I have a Best Grade 8 gauge single by W&C Scott that is chambered for 3-1/2 inch shells and weighs 9-3/4 pounds. It is, I believe, a "Light Waterfowl" model. I have seen only one reference to that term.

Maybe hunters were just tougher in those days.

Of the four Parker 8’s I’ve had in my possession the lightest was about 14 pounds and the heaviest was exactly 16 pounds . So yeah I’d say it’s a “light” gun , I’ve got 10’s that are heavier .

[Pete Lester]

I have a Best Grade 8 gauge single by W&C Scott that is chambered for 3-1/2 inch shells and weighs 9-3/4 pounds. It is, I believe, a "Light Waterfowl" model. I have seen only one reference to that term.

Maybe hunters were just tougher in those days.

I was tougher in that regard 30+ years ago when I regularly hunted waterfowl with a 9.5 pound Browning BPS 10 gauge magnum. That much recoil and those days are behind me.

[Stephen Hodges]

Very nice gun Pete. I have always wanted to purchase a Scottish 12 gauge.

[Bill Murphy]

My DH 30" eight weighs just ten pounds. It is the only 30" hammerless eight in the existing Parker records, and probably the lightest. It was owned by Parker Brothers pro and ammo promoter T.H.Keller. It doesn't kick. The skeleton butt is very soft.

[Chris Pope]

I was tougher in that regard 30+ years ago when I regularly hunted waterfowl with a 9.5 pound Browning BPS 10 gauge magnum. That much recoil and those days are behind me.

I, too, had a BPS 10 up until I sent 2 rounds off the port side of a canoe at a passing goose and my hunting partner informed that he wouldn't hunt with me again unless I got rid of it! Took a lot of geese with that beast.

[Pete Lester]

I, too, had a BPS 10 up until I sent 2 rounds off the port side of a canoe at a passing goose and my hunting partner informed that he wouldn't hunt with me again unless I got rid of it! Took a lot of geese with that beast.

My BPS 10 was my go to waterfowl gun in the 90's and early 2000's. I also took a lot of geese with it. I do remember somewhere around 15 shots I was reaching the limit of how much punishment I wanted to take that day. About 8 years ago I sold it to a friend and bought a Remington SP-10. The BPS was better in every way, except for recoil. For those who can take it's punch it's one of the best waterfowl guns going IMO. I don't see a need to punish myself with heavy loadings in the Mortimore. I am thinking a 3.5" 1 3/8 ounce load of bismuth with a little more velocity than my 2 7/8" loadings will be just fine.

Was it Dana in the canoe with you?

[scott kittredge]

I, too, had a BPS 10 up until I sent 2 rounds off the port side of a canoe at a passing goose and my hunting partner informed that he wouldn't hunt with me again unless I got rid of it! Took a lot of geese with that beast.

kind of like hunt next to a guy with a cutts compensater. on the gun :whistle:

[Chris Pope]

My BPS 10 was my go to waterfowl gun in the 90's and early 2000's. I also took a lot of geese with it. I do remember somewhere around 15 shots I was reaching the limit of how much punishment I wanted to take that day. About 8 years ago I sold it to a friend and bought a Remington SP-10. The BPS was better in every way, except for recoil. For those who can take it's punch it's one of the best waterfowl guns going IMO. I don't see a need to punish myself with heavy loadings in the Mortimore. I am thinking a 3.5" 1 3/8 ounce load of bismuth with a little more velocity than my 2 7/8" loadings will be just fine.

Was it Dana in the canoe with you?

No, but Dana was with me on a few goose hunts in NH and upstate NY where the BPS ruled the hedgerow...and I have a ton of Dana hunting stories! I think one of the best goose hunts together we never shot a goose- instead we got 1 merganzer, 3 pigeons and a nice coyote. So much fun that day!
The canoe incident was with our mutual friend Corey.

[Pete Lester]

kind of like hunt next to a guy with a cutts compensater. on the gun :whistle:

Sorry, I didn't think you still had enough hearing left to notice the difference. :D

[Pete Lester]

No, but Dana was with me on a few goose hunts in NH and upstate NY where the BPS ruled the hedgerow...and I have a ton of Dana hunting stories! I think one of the best goose hunts together we never shot a goose- instead we got 1 merganzer, 3 pigeons and a nice coyote. So much fun that day!
The canoe incident was with our mutual friend Corey.

Dana is a great guy, I think he was interested in the Mortimore but the timing of buying it wasn't right for him. It will be KTP's loss when he retires.

[Chris Pope]

Dana is a great guy, I think he was interested in the Mortimore but the timing of buying it wasn't right for him. It will be KTP's loss when he retires.

That is a fact. If KTP was smart they'd offer him a raise and a bonus each year just to keep him.

[Pete Lester]

Yesterday was my first chance to try the Mortimer magnum 10 on game. It was rather slow day and I only had a few chances to fire it. I used a handload of 1 1/2 ounce of bismuth 2 pushed by 32 gr of Longshot. The goose was a tall shot and while dressing it I found the pellets had fully penetrated the breasts. As some of you know perceived recoil is different when game is in the sights instead of patterning paper. I am upping my loads for the next hunt to 1 5/8 pushed along by 34 gr of Longshot because recoil when firing at geese yesterday was not bad at all.

[CraigThompson]

I dunno why but my intrest anymore is mainly 10 gauge and 8 gauge even though my shoulder is telling me enough is enough :whistle::rotf::rotf:

[Daryl Corona]

kind of like hunt next to a guy with a cutts compensater. on the gun :whistle:

Or in a pit next to guy with ported barrels.:banghead: Nice gun Pete and a dandy honker.

[CraigThompson]

Or in a pit next to guy with ported barrels.:banghead: Nice gun Pete and a dandy honker.

Thirtyfive to forty years ago every 12 gauge skeet or trap gun I had was ported or had a Kolar Kob (essentially the same thing as a Cutts) . I never took it to the extent some of them did of porting the insert tubes in 20 and or 28 . To be honest after awhile for me atleast the need for the 12 gauge at skeet was no more I shot regular old 20 gauge loads in the 12 , 20 and doubles at all stations event . The under barrel ported on the trap gun though I found slightly helpful for trap doubles . I suspect the first barrel ported for Colombaire or boxbirds might be slightly helpful but since I pretty much only shoot SxS’s in the ring I’m not putting holes in a SxS barrel/s !

[Chris Pope]

That goose is a beauty. And they are so tasty- a good one for Christmas! Nice job!

[Stan Hillis]

For many years the 10-gauge 3 1/2-inch Magnum shells, back when they only carried 2-ounces of shot, carried the admonition "USE ONLY IN GUNS WEIGHING 10 1/2 POUNDS OR MORE."

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For the sake of the shooter as well as that of the gun.

[Pete Lester]

For the sake of the shooter as well as that of the gun.

Yet somehow many of us thought nothing of and survived shooting 1 5/8 and 1 7/8 ounce three inch twelve gauge shells out of 7 1/2 pound 870 12 gauge magnums when lead was legal for waterfowl.

[Chris Pope]

Some of the commercial 3" 12 ga turkey loads were not fun to shoot at a pattern board. You didn't quite notice it as much when shooting at an actual turkey...until the next day...