20 ga. gun weights

[Stan Hillis]

Parker manufactured 20s in five different frame sizes, according to info on our home page ....... 1/2 through 2. Does a chart exist that would show comparative overall gun weights in each of these frame sizes with 28" barrels, again in 20 gauge?

In lieu of that, could some members kindly post gun weights for their personal guns, in 20 ga. and with 28" barrels?

[Brian Dudley]

I would not really say that they “manufactured them in those frame sizes. The typical frame sizes for 20g would be 0 or 1 in the case of heavy or long barreled guns. Anything other than that would be extremely rare and by special request or a gun with multi-gauge barrel sets. Ie: a 12/20 on a 2 frame.

[Reggie Bishop]

Brian is correct. I have 21 twenty gauge Parkers on my spreadsheet with data I have collected. In addition to those 21 I have ordered letters on a handful of other 20 gauge Parkers and have looked at many of that gauge. I personally have seen two Parker 20s on 1 frames, the balance were all 0 frames. There is nothing scientific about my information, but anything other than a 0 frame Parker 20 is a outlier for sure.

Stan I have a 28" Parker 20 at home on 0 frame that I will get you the weight later today.

[edgarspencer]

5 pounds, 14 oz. 0 frame.
7 pounds, 3 oz., 1 frame

[Greg Baehman]

20ga. Parker Reproduction DHE, 28”, SG, SPL, DT, 14 3/8” LOP, SSBP = 6 lbs. 9 oz.

[Russ Jackson]

Late Remington Era gun ;
O Frame
Barrel Weight 3.1
Total overall weight 6.2
Straight Grip , Double Trigger ,Ejector with Small Beaver Tail Forend and wearing a Decelerator Pad !

[James L. Martin]

20ga VH 26" 5lb 15.8oz
20ga DH 26" 6lb .7oz
20ga Trojan 28" 6lb 2oz
20ga Trojan 28" 6lb 4.5oz
20ga VHE 30" 6lb 8oz
20ga VHE 30" 6lb 12oz
All 0 frame

[CraigThompson]

I would not really say that they “manufactured them in those frame sizes. The typical frame sizes for 20g would be 0 or 1 in the case of heavy or long barreled guns. Anything other than that would be extremely rare and by special request or a gun with multi-gauge barrel sets. Ie: a 12/20 on a 2 frame.

I seem to remmember someone on here claiming to have or have seen a 20 gauge on a 3 frame that was supposedly factory original .

[Bill Murphy]

Both of my #2 frame 32" twenties weigh about 8 1/4 to 8 1/2 pounds. They are not 2 barrel sets.

[Reggie Bishop]

28" Damascus, straight stock, splinter, 0 frame 6 lbs 12 oz.

[J. Scott Hanes]

My 20 VH, O frame, has a BTFE and weighs 6#, 14.6oz

[Thomas L. Benson Sr.]

VHE 20 Ga. with 28 inch barrels on 0 frame is 6.50 total with 2.75 barrel weight Thomas

[Harold Lee Pickens]

PH 20, 0 frame, 28'' fliud steel, 6 lb 12 oz

[Stan Hillis]

Thanks for correcting me, Brian and Reggie, about the frame sizes Parker made 20s on.

With that correction, what does this mean (copied and pasted directly from the Parker site home page information)? If this is inaccurate should it not be corrected? Possibly they "offered" 20s in all these frame sizes , but that isn't clear to me the way it is stated (taken from TPS). Is the "Parker Story" wrong?


Frame Sizes by Gauge


Frame Size Gauges Used

000 28, .410
00 28, .410
0 16, 20, 28
1/2 12, 16, 20
1 10, 12, 16, 20
1 1/2 12, 16, 20
2 10, 12, 20
3 10, 12, 16
4 10
5 8, 10
6 8, 10, 12
7 8, 10
Source: The Parker Story - Vol. II

[Reggie Bishop]

Two frame 20s do exist. "Spin Drift" a member here has a 2 frame. I have never seen a 1/2 frame 20. When the 1/2 frame came into existence maybe that was an offered size and maybe there is one out there somewhere but I have never heard of one.

To add further confusion Steve Barnett Fine Guns has a 20 gauge currently in their inventory on a 1 1/2 frame. That is one rare bird!

[edgarspencer]

Has anyone seen a 1/2 frame in other than 12ga.?

[Stan Hillis]

I guess no one wants to breech the topic of whether the Parker Story is in error about this, or whether it was a matter of the guns being offered vs manufactured.

Not trying to start a ruckus, just trying to learn, in my quest for the perfect quail/woodcock double.

[Stan Hillis]

5 pounds, 14 oz. 0 frame.
7 pounds, 3 oz., 1 frame

Edgar, what are the barrel lengths on those two? Thanks.

[Dan Steingraber]

I weighed five 20's with barrels from 28" to 32" and they ranged from 6lbs 2oz to 6lbs 12oz. All O frames. I am also searching for the ideal (for me) grouse gun. I have conclued that it is the gun (or guns) I am comfortable carrying 7-9 miles in the woods and that shoots where I am looking with a hurried mount from various foot/body positions. At this point in my search the leading contenders are a straight grip 28 gauge repro with the Q1, Q2 26" barrels and the longer LOP and a pistol grip 20 gauge repro with the 26" ic/mod barrels. I have a couple original Parker 20's knocking on the door in 28 and 20 gauge. I'm committed to more research this off season. :):cool: Good luck in your quest for the Holy Grail.

[Dean Weber]

0 frame, 28”, 6/2 fluid steel
0 frame 28”, 6/0 damascus

[Bill Murphy]

My grouse gun of choice is my 6 1/4 pound J.P.Sauer ten gauge 26" Krupp barrels. It is light, fast handling, and with a boomer in the left barrel, can scratch down a second shot 50 yard bird without any problem. Of course, my grouse chasing days are over. I'm still very fond of this rare little Sauer.

[Greg Baehman]

Thanks for correcting me, Brian and Reggie, about the frame sizes Parker made 20s on.

With that correction, what does this mean (copied and pasted directly from the Parker site home page information)? If this is inaccurate should it not be corrected? Possibly they "offered" 20s in all these frame sizes , but that isn't clear to me the way it is stated (taken from TPS). Is the "Parker Story" wrong?


Frame Sizes by Gauge


Frame Size Gauges Used

000 28, .410
00 28, .410
0 16, 20, 28
1/2 12, 16, 20
1 10, 12, 16, 20
1 1/2 12, 16, 20
2 10, 12, 20
3 10, 12, 16
4 10
5 8, 10
6 8, 10, 12
7 8, 10
Source: The Parker Story - Vol. II
Where did you see the above in TPS? The below is a pic taken of frame sizes on Pg. 527 in Vol. 2 of TPS. This chart varies from the above. In NOTES: lower left see “g”,as there are some exceptions not listed in chart.

[Bill Murphy]

Some time back, I initiated a thread where I added some frame sizes that the authors were not aware of. The sizes mentioned in this current thread were a result of that older thread. Good luck finding it, but the "new" chart is in the current thread, this one. Stan's attribution of TPS for the updated chart was in error, his first.

[Bill Murphy]

Edgar, the 1/2 frame 20 is one of the guns in the BHE four barrel, two gun set built for Centerville, Maryland NSSA shooter, Cliff Green. A 16 gauge 1/2 frame gun can easily be built with a set of #1 frame 16 gauge barrels like the DHE 1/2 frame that I own. In my opinion, the factory probably built more than one of those. The 000 frame 28 gauge was owned by a neighbor of mine, now passed, and I have no idea where it is today. He displayed it at a PGCA annual meeting and show at Ohio Gun Collectors some years ago. I measured the frame and it is a true 000 frame gun. Is that sweet or what?

[George Lang]

VH 26" 5# 13oz O frame
Trojan 26" 6# 1oz O frame

[Robert Brooks]

VH 0 frame 28 inch 6/0 Bobby

[Jon Weber]

DHE 20 O frame 26"barrels at 5lbs 10oz

[Stan Hillis]

Some time back, I initiated a thread where I added some frame sizes that the authors were not aware of. The sizes mentioned in this current thread were a result of that older thread. Good luck finding it, but the "new" chart is in the current thread, this one. Stan's attribution of TPS for the updated chart was in error, his first.


If it is an error on my part it's because the error is posted on this website. I said clearly that i copied and pasted it from this site.

If anyone wants to look at it go here and see for yourself.

https://parkerguns.org

Click on "Technical Information" then scroll down and look under the heading " Frame Sizes by Gauge", and you will see exactly what I copied and pasted into my original post on this thread.

Now, please show me where I made an error, and I will admit and correct it. This website says it was taken from TPS. Or alternatively, tell me that there is an error on the website, or in TPS. :nono:

[Stan Hillis]

Where did you see the above in TPS? The below is a pic taken of frame sizes on Pg. 527 in Vol. 2 of TPS. This chart varies from the above. In NOTES: lower left see “g”,as there are some exceptions not listed in chart.

I didn't see it in TPS. I saw it on this website and it states there that it was taken from TPS. See above post.

[Bill Murphy]

Stan, your "error" was not of your making. The "error" was that the information was not taken directly from The Parker Story as implied. It was taken from the later correction of The Parker Story information, which was also incomplete and somewhat incorrect. My comment was not intended to disrespect your information, only to update it to better information. The best information is not from The Parker Story, but from corrections on this site.

[Stan Hillis]

Thank you for that explanation, Bill. No offense taken, my friend. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of it, and learn along the way.

In that case shouldn't that chart I copied and pasted, on the Technical Information page, be corrected and updated?

Thanks everyone for your patience.

[Bill Murphy]

Stan, The Parker Story chart has been added to and corrected so many times that the powers can't figure out which is the final?? correction. I think my latest correction is as good as any. However, I don't know where to find it. The list under "Technical Information" on this site seems like it is correct and complete. The only problem is the attribution to The Parker Story. This list is way more correct and complete than is the list in The Parker Story. Now I realize that it was not your error, but an error in the "Technical Information" on this site.

[Stan Hillis]

Thanks for explaining it to me, Bill. I appreciate it.

However, the issue still remains that the cognoscenti here do not agree with what the information says. It says "Frame Sizes Used". Used implies made, to me. And yet, most everyone here says they did NOT make them in five frame sizes.

It's still a mystery to me concerning the conflicting information.

The only reason I brought it up was that when I was comparing weights of different makes of guns ........ Fox, Parker, etc., I saw that the info claimed Parker made 20s in five frame sizes. I pretty well found out what I really needed to know about Parker 20 weights. The rest of this was only a curiosity to me.

[Bill Murphy]

Five frame sizes in 20 gauge. Examples of all five 20 gauge sizes are available. Not that it matters, but the 20 gauge single trap makes a total of six.

[Reggie Bishop]

I think the summarization of Parker 20 gauge guns weights is that you can't. You can only say that you will find them in a varying range of weights. I always hear the Fox guys talking about how much lighter Fox 20s are than Parker 20s. That isn't necessarily true. I owned at one a time a Fox DE 20 gauge with a straight stock and 30" barrels. I also own a Parker 20 BHE with a straight stock and 30" barrels. The Fox had a cut stock with an added recoil pad, the Parker a skeleton steel butt. The Parker actually weighed slightly less than the Fox. Parker Brothers had more options available to vary a guns handling characteristics (read weight) than any other American made double.

[Bill Murphy]

Reggie, we're talking about number stamped frames, not weights. I think we're on the mark at five for 20 gauge double barrel number stamped frames. At least until we find a #3 frame 20. I was a bit surprised when I found a #3 frame 16, but who knows what's next.

[Reggie Bishop]

:confused::confused:"20 Gauge Gun Weights" is the title of the thread. Stan said he was comparing weights. Maybe I am off base. Carry on!

[Dean Weber]

Reggie,
You have to be very focused to keep up with the ever-winding topical conversation. Were you expecting to look at a title and expect the thread to stay focused on it in a forum such as ours? :rotf:

[Bill Murphy]

Stan, I sent you a PM.

[Arthur Shaffer]

I guess no one wants to breech the topic of whether the Parker Story is in error about this, or whether it was a matter of the guns being offered vs manufactured.

Not trying to start a ruckus, just trying to learn, in my quest for the perfect quail/woodcock double.

I guess I would have to make the comment that nothing in a book such as TPS can be completely factual. A group of people have done an incredible job of tracking down data and information for years and compliling a body of work that has become the bible of a collector movement. However, there are obviously things that slip through, things that are illegible, and things that are known now that weren't available when the book was compiled. As much as exists in TPS, not everything is included and not everything is accurate.
One such item I was made aware of just the other day. I was of the opinion based on the production records in TPS that Parker made laminate barrels were used only on quality 2, 3 and 4 guns. Other knnowledgeable members here cited examples of lower and higher grade guns with those barrels. In addition, TPS only lists laminate style guns in relation to the Parker laminate barrels. However, a number of D2, D3 and D4 guns with factory barrels have correctly numbered Parker laminate barrels.

There is no way to correct this type of omission or error per se, but it would be nice if there was some method of clearing up these issues as a group and documenting them as time goes on. This would be extremely beneficial to younger people taking an interest in the guns down the road. They shouldn't be presented as a simple FAQ, but maybe a series of short "white papers" in the Parker info section so that beginners would have a source of study.



++++++++++++

EDIT

Note that I wrote this as a response to Stan's post, well before the further responses. However, I think the idea is still valid.

[Kevin McCormack]

From Art's post:

"There is no way to correct this type of omission or error per se, but it would be nice if there was some method of clearing up these issues as a group and documenting them as time goes on. This would be extremely beneficial to younger people taking an interest in the guns down the road. They shouldn't be presented as a simple FAQ, but maybe a series of short "white papers" in the Parker info section so that beginners would have a source of study."

An excellent suggestion in my view, if for no other reason than to encourage the (current) minimalist interest of young people in the American SxS double gun. If little else, it could help someone identify or verify the validity of original factory work vs. "Frankenguns" or other after-market inconsistencies. (The composite-barreled Trojan grade guns come to mind among others).