Interesting Configuration

[Dean Weber]

I know we have been talking about long barreled beauties here recently. Although I tend to like longer barrels as well, this gun makes me ponder the intent. Maybe it was intended as a road hunter?

Specifics - 24" barrels reverse choked IM/M. Double ivory beads, BTFE, straight grip, non-auto safety, skeleton butt plate, SST. Has a lot of skeet characteristics but with tighter chokes. Maybe a cramped duck blind gun?:)

https://i.imgur.com/rxx7e3p.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/hCKeKdj.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/NiJsOrZ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/kGnDem7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/UFeCDzc.jpg

[Dave Noreen]

Good shot who really wanted to CRUSH those skeet targets!!

[Marty Kohler]

Dean …Please tell us who did the restoration.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Great that you even have the hang tags

[Reggie Bishop]

Looks original to me. Very nice late Remington gun. What a grouse gun that would make!

[Dean Romig]

Finishes appear original Remington to me.

Multi-purpose?? Skeet, Grouse, Woodcock and Puddle ducks...??





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[John Allen]

A great turkey gun. Short and easy to move with tight chokes.

[Bruce Hering]

That is one interesting gun. I wish we knew more about it as in, how was it actually used.

I agree with two of the thoughts: Really good skeet shooter and duck blind gun.

[CraigThompson]

I certainly like it ! Is it on an 0 frame or a 1 frame ? The 16 VHE skeet I have is the same basic configuration and on a 1 frame .

[Dean Weber]

Craig,
It is a 1 frame.

[Dean Weber]

Dean …Please tell us who did the restoration.

Marty,

Although there are others who know more, I believe these to be original finishes.

Best - Dean

[Garry L Gordon]

Dean, that’s a wonderfully unique gun. So what do you use it for?

[Russell E. Cleary]

Maybe the gun’s odd configuration, by American standards, i.e., short barrels with tight chokes, was influenced by the success, starting in the 1920s, of the Churchill XXV. (The Roman numerals signified the model's perforce 25-inch barrel length.)

It was choked tight enough, according to Chris Batha in his article below, for driven Pheasants at an average of 30 yards.

https://shootingsportsman.com/the-churchill-xxv/

[Dean Weber]

Dean, that’s a wonderfully unique gun. So what do you use it for?

Garry,

I sense you are asking the same question I am asking, why? Not to be a smarty pants, but currently, I decorate around it. I bought it some years back due to its unique configuration and its condition. It fit a niche in my collection.

If my research is correct, there are something like 4 DHE 16 gauges with 24" Titanic barrels. 3 in the 170's and this one. The forend is not mentioned in the letter but it does have the reinforced forend loop and I do not question the authenticity.

Dean

[Garry L Gordon]

Garry,

I sense you are asking the same question I am asking, why? Not to be a smarty pants, but currently, I decorate around it. I bought it some years back due to its unique configuration and its condition. It fit a niche in my collection.

If my research is correct, there are something like 4 DHE 16 gauges with 24" barrels. 3 in the 170's and this one. The forend is not mentioned in the letter but it does have the reinforced lug and I do not question the authenticity.

Dean

It is indeed unique…and merits decorating around.

[Randy G Roberts]

Dean that is just a way cool gun that has a lot going for it. A very unique configuration with a ton of original condition, very nice indeed. I do recall seeing 25" guns with a BTFE but I do not recall a 24" gun with a BTFE. Have we seen one before? And it's a 24" 16 gauge on a 1 frame, we'll never know what the original owner was thinking. No matter, I like it. You should shoot some roosters with that one. Congrats, nice find.

[CraigThompson]

The forend is not mentioned in the letter but it does have the reinforced lug and I do not question the authenticity.

Dean

I assume it has the draw bolt in the front of the beavertail ?

[CraigThompson]

Dean that is just a way cool gun that has a lot going for it. A very unique configuration with a ton of original condition, very nice indeed. I do recall seeing 25" guns with a BTFE but I do not recall a 24" gun with a BTFE. Have we seen one before? And it's a 24" 16 gauge on a 1 frame, we'll never know what the original owner was thinking. No matter, I like it. You should shoot some roosters with that one. Congrats, nice find.

The J Cliff Green two gun four barrel set are all 24” and beavertail forends .

[Chris Travinski]

I love the engraving on Remington Era DHEs.

[Randy G Roberts]

The J Cliff Green two gun four barrel set are all 24” and beavertail forends .

Ahh. There ya go. You should buy that set. You're intrigued by it per historical data. Just saying. :)

[CraigThompson]

Ahh. There ya go. You should buy that set. You're intrigued by it per historical data. Just saying. :)

Spot me a quarter million indefinitely and I’ll drive up and get them Tuesday :rotf:

[Jerry Harlow]

Bill Murphy explained the reason for tighter chokes in skeet guns once before. Hopefully he will again, which would also explain the reversed chokes.

[Dean Weber]

Dean that is just a way cool gun that has a lot going for it. A very unique configuration with a ton of original condition, very nice indeed. I do recall seeing 25" guns with a BTFE but I do not recall a 24" gun with a BTFE. Have we seen one before? And it's a 24" 16 gauge on a 1 frame, we'll never know what the original owner was thinking. No matter, I like it. You should shoot some roosters with that one. Congrats, nice find.

Randy,

I have not triangulated all the short barreled guns to determine a large forend code. Craig T. stated the Cliff Green gun's had a BTFE, which I do not dispute. However, they do not show a large forend code like mine doesn't. Don't think we can go by the serialization book on that particular question.

[Dean Weber]

I assume it has the draw bolt in the front of the beavertail ?

Yes, it does. And the reinforced forend loop.

[Dean Weber]

Bill Murphy explained the reason for tighter chokes in skeet guns once before. Hopefully he will again, which would also explain the reversed chokes.

Jerry,
You are correct about Bill's statement. Tighter chokes were used due to the side of the field/house the targets were broken in the early days of the game.

This gun has .025R and .018L constriction.

[CraigThompson]

Jerry,
You are correct about Bill's statement. Tighter chokes were used due to the side of the field/house the targets were broken in the early days of the game.

This gun has .025 and .018 constriction.

I’ve got VHE skeets in 12 and 16 both of those when measured are closer to what I’d call light mod and mod . A typical skeet gun of today doesn’t have more than 10/1000’s in either barrel and most I think are more like 5/1000’s .

[todd allen]

I'm not an open choke guy, but in a 12 ga, cylinder chokes will break skeet targets all day long.

[Reggie Bishop]

I have a 20 gauge gun that dates to 1920 that has a beavertail with draw bolt and reinforced forend loop. The letter makes no mention of the beavertail. Letters don't always tell the entire story for whatever reason.

[John Davis]

When they made those entries in the Stock and Order books a hundred years ago, they weren’t really thinking about future collectors.

[todd allen]

Dean, that is a beautiful gun, and despite the short barrels, as I think the old saying goes, I wouldn't kick her outta the safe for eating crackers!
With the handy barrel lengths and tight chokes one could protect against highwaymen on the way to the pigeon shoot!
;-)

[CraigThompson]

I'm not an open choke guy, but in a 12 ga, cylinder chokes will break skeet targets all day long.

Full choke will break them all day long if you’ve got your head in the game . The average skeet target I think is 20-22 yards tops . Choke for all intents and purposes is an irrelavent commodity . Once one’s learned the game and understands you have more time than you originally thought it’s not difficult with tight chokes . When I shot competitively I had changeable chokes on the subgauge insert tubes and when practicing I always shot tighter chokes then for registered I used the more open chokes . The hardest part of skeet is keeping your mind in the game for 100 different milliseconds . Mechanics of the game are 5-15% but the nut on the stock is the other 85-95% .

[todd allen]

Craig, I have never shot skeet in competition, but have done plenty of skeet shooting for fun.
We used to always shoot a round or two as a warm-up for sporting clays competition.
That said, we always shot skeet with full chokes.
What I know about cylinder chokes is that they WILL break a skeet target from any station on a skeet field.
My motto is that open chokes help a poor shot as much as tight chokes help a good shot.

[todd allen]

The hardest part of skeet is keeping your mind in the game for 100 different milliseconds . Mechanics of the game are 5-15% but the nut on the stock is the other 85-95% .
True words on skeet. Same for trap, IMO.

[todd allen]

BTW, when I bought the H&H Royal, I sent it back to Briley's for choke tubes, because I could not see myself owning a fixed choke gun with 0/.08 choke constrictions.
I bought the gun from Chuck Webb, and he understood, because set up all of my competition guns over the years.
Choke tube job was comped, BTW.
Funny story:
So I go on this bluegrouse hunt up on top of the Dunckley Flat Tops in CO. Elevation about 10.5k ft.
I back backpacked the H&H up, and knowing what altitude does to patterns, put in my most open pair of chokes. 05/10k.
The high altitude and thin air created super tight patterns that would break every bone in the bird if shot under 20 yds.
I patterned the .05 choke up there, and you would think I was shooting a pigeon gun.

[CraigThompson]

What I know about cylinder chokes is that they WILL break a skeet target from any station on a skeet field.
My motto is that open chokes help a poor shot as much as tight chokes help a good shot.

I wasn't arguing the fact that more open works WELL I always viewed that as a given :rotf:

As to tight chokes helping a better shot I'm still on the fence about that on the skeet field . However I will say in trap sporting or pigeons FOR ME ATLEAST tight chokes give me confidence .

[todd allen]

We are in agreement. I'm sure the top competitors in skeet are not running full chokes, just as the top competitors in pigeons are not running skeet chokes.
There are no gimmicks, or "I saw a chip" in box birds. It's either in or out.
BTW, I have always pattern tested every load and every choke on the P-gun.
Never had to do that with the NSFW GHE. You put em in the pattern, and that old Parker turned em into a dish rag!

[Chris Travinski]

I'm not an open choke guy, but in a 12 ga, cylinder chokes will break skeet targets all day long.

I questioned my desire for excessive chokes when I watched Edgar breaking clays at 40+ yds. with a 28 ga., cylinder chokes in both barrels. We walked over to the long station at Addieville just for kicks at the end of the day, it's a long shot and the targets are falling hard by the time you can pick them up. It certainly changed the way I look at open choked guns.

[CraigThompson]

We are in agreement. I'm sure the top competitors in skeet are not running full chokes, just as the top competitors in pigeons are not running skeet chokes.
There are no gimmicks, or "I saw a chip" in box birds. It's either in or out.
BTW, I have always pattern tested every load and every choke on the P-gun.
Never had to do that with the NSFW GHE. You put em in the pattern, and that old Parker turned em into a dish rag!

When I was competing I had several friends that were very adamant about patterning their skeet guns with each gauge set of tubes and they were worried about even quadrants in their patterns . I’ve never worried about pattern density or diversity to much although I will say I patterned my 10 gauge Bismuth loads at forty yards . I was more intrested in the center of the pattern to wear I was aiming/pointing . I never ever wanted to see 410 patterns , looking at 410 patterns can have a negative affect on one’s confidence . I still say I’ve never been much count at any of the games skeet, trap , sporting or pigeons but I’ve had an awful lot of good luck/fortune :rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf:

[CraigThompson]

I questioned my desire for excessive chokes when I watched Edgar breaking clays at 40+ yds. with a 28 ga., cylinder chokes in both barrels. We walked over to the long station at Addieville just for kicks at the end of the day, it's a long shot and the targets are falling hard by the time you can pick them up. It certainly changed the way I look at open choked guns.

First time I shot the course at Sanford I used more open chokes guns if I had the option in my accumulation . And I found myself trying to jump the targets quick and I wasn’t smooth . My sychie was telling me to shoot quick before it outruns the choke . End result lower scores , luckily I’d brought tight choked guns as well and the next day my scores were better .

[David Noble]

The forend is not mentioned in the letter but it does have the reinforced forend loop and I do not question the authenticity.

Dean

Dean, my GHE 16ga Skeet gun Ser. 239842 is identical to yours but with 28" barrels. In the serialization book it codes the same as yours however my letter does state in a later Remington document that it had the beavertail forend. I would definitely thank yours is correct and original.
Beautiful gun!